I am confused....

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Dozer
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I am confused....

Post by Dozer » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:54 pm

Hi
Please know I do not want to start a big discussion here but I just have a question.
I know there is a lot going on but somethings are just not so clear to me, that can be part of that my english is not that well that I wish to be.

But do I understand right now that the founders are not longer with the hole group here?
I ask this because I can not find any clear things on this

sorry if I step out of line here but I am just a bit confused about this

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Hawthorne » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:58 pm

We do not know what Blustag and Blufawns intentions are with creating the new forum. We need to wait to hear from Lynn what her intentions are.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by Rahne » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:45 pm

Well whatever their intentions are.... we will continue without them ;)

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Sylvaen » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:03 pm

I think they made their intentions very clear when they created their new forum...
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Re: I am confused....

Post by Blustag » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:10 pm

Hawthorne wrote:We do not know what Blustag and Blufawns intentions are with creating the new forum. We need to wait to hear from Lynn what her intentions are.
I have just come on here and read through a few posts. Firstly let me say that I set up the TDR many years ago when I first started
this breed and copyrighted the name. It was then decided to set up a committe some time later which we did. I own the name and
the website.

Jenny (Blufawn) set up the new forum not to interfere with this one but to provide a place where moderators did their jobs and where
there were no politics. Before you jump to conclusions and say that if anyone asks questions they will be deleted forget it. This is
a forum where there will be no name calling or bashing people an honest and open forum. A lot of you have visited it already and even registered. We are not worried how long it takes or how many members join we are not in a rush to prove anything to anyone. You will see that we havnt banned anyone and allowed people to come on. IF people had asked questions in a calm and sensible manner then
they would have been answered. I have also noticed that as soon as one particular post went up today someone saw it and posted
a load of b...s..t on here. You know who you are. Yet another case of lies. Some on here state that Jenny has 'copied' this forum. Another example of how things get twisted which has happened so much on here lately. Jenny set up the very first Tamaskan Forum years ago and it was taken down a good while later because everyone was slagging off certain people.. and NO I wasnt one of them before you start... It was taken down and Debby then set up a new one in her name and copied our old one with some new adjustments so we could make a fresh start.

I would also like to point out that 'some' people on here have been going by various aliases to continue in their bashing of both
Jenny and myself. They have done it in the past and are still doing it now. This makes it look like more people are negative than
really are. There is a lot of history regarding my stay in Finland, the purchase of my dogs over there and what is happening today.
Its all very well people saying..email me if you want to know the truth...if you want evidence...and so on. Im sure that most
intelligent people will realise that emails can be vandalised and I have seen that happen many times when copies have been sent to
me of mails I was 'supposed' to have sent out. Evidence is also not all it seems to be. Dna taken from certain dogs etc.. how do
you know that the dogs are the correct ones?? What proof of that is there ask yourselves. Concrete proof at that not some say so.

My intentions are to carry on breeding Quality Tamaskan for those that want them. I have plans for the future and some new
challenges which will be very interesting. I still have a waiting list and enquiries coming in so I have not vanished nor run away.
I have written to the TDR committee 'before' I came on here with my opinions but it seems that since coming on here there has been
a takeover. No one told me about that but then Im not surprised. I will remain with the original TDR and will carry on record keeping,
health testing and so on. All our dogs are documented and will continue to be so. Visitors are made very welcome to see our dogs
and any questions can be answered and all original documents can be viewed. At no time have I said to anyone they cannot see
certain dogs as was stated by someone on here. Most visitors travel for hours to get here and even come from across the sea so
I make sure that they see all the dogs and get as much information as possible.

Regarding the wolf content. I have explained elsewhere on this forum my dealings with Polarspeed so dont need to go into more
detail here. The dna analysis for wolf content is not 100% accurate and wolf markers also appear in other breeds. The company
running the tests have admitted that they are not 100% sure and that they dont know that IF there is wolf anywhere just where exactly it is. That being said. Some of the dogs testing positive 'may' possibly have wolf content but then it may be way back
in the 7th 8th generation or even further. Most people arnt bothered one way or another and I for one am not bothered as there
are certainly no plans to reintroduce the wolf or a wolfdog so we just move on from that.

I am not going to go any further here defending myself against any of the false allegations made here on this forum but if any more of
you are 'genuinely' interested in what I have to say then you have my email address.

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Re: I am confused....

Post by nivenj » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:50 pm

I would like to clarify one point raised by Blustag.

There was no "Takeover". The community had made it very clear, and despite the TDR Committee making some very unpopular statements trying to convince otherwise, there was no appetite to keep Blustag and Blufawn in anyway connected to the Tamaskan Community.

On a personal note, I believe it takes more than a name to create a community, and there is more than enough precedent out there, especially in the UK, where rights to ownership are not as clear cut as who registered things. I would be more worried about the legal aspects of these revelations and what that means in terms of mis-representation with a view to decieve. I'm not sure a court of law is going to take "Trust me" as a defense TBH.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by dash » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:33 pm

For me I'm glad to see Lynn has come on and posted, but from an outside point of view as I've come to this very late in the day I don't view it as a takeover and there has been no conspiracy to oust Lynn.
This is where I stand on this - from an outside perspective:-
I move predominantly in husky circles and the Tamaskan breed is already regarded as a joke with the usual comment "oh yea it's just the old ute stock, rebranded,' if there is another split this will just go to give the breed even less credibilaty in the UK.
Mistakes have clearly been made and the whole wolf without the content motto is a joke. I don't think it helps and people who want a wolf and choose a tamaskan are missing so much more that these dogs have to offer.
Lynn is the founder of the breed and maybe her vision has become clouded. The dog world is crazy with many crazy people in it and sometimes we all can loose our heads/way. Lying about wolf content/ litters is plain daft and to say the DNA tests could be wrong isnt a defence - BUT lynn did start us all on our journies with this breed, directly or indirectly- is there no way to regain the trust?
To stress again I don't know the whole stories and have only been reading threads in the last few days, so forgive me if I've got things wrong!!

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Re: I am confused....

Post by nivenj » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:42 pm

dash wrote:For me I'm glad to see Lynn has come on and posted, but from an outside point of view as I've come to this very late in the day I don't view it as a takeover and there has been no conspiracy to oust Lynn.
This is where I stand on this - from an outside perspective:-
I move predominantly in husky circles and the Tamaskan breed is already regarded as a joke with the usual comment "oh yea it's just the old ute stock, rebranded,' if there is another split this will just go to give the breed even less credibilaty in the UK.
Mistakes have clearly been made and the whole wolf without the content motto is a joke. I don't think it helps and people who want a wolf and choose a tamaskan are missing so much more that these dogs have to offer.
Lynn is the founder of the breed and maybe her vision has become clouded. The dog world is crazy with many crazy people in it and sometimes we all can loose our heads/way. Lying about wolf content/ litters is plain daft and to say the DNA tests could be wrong isnt a defence - BUT lynn did start us all on our journies with this breed, directly or indirectly- is there no way to regain the trust?
To stress again I don't know the whole stories and have only been reading threads in the last few days, so forgive me if I've got things wrong!!
I'm not sure coming onto a Tamaskan Forum and stating the circles you move in regard our dogs as a Joke is going to endear you to the community but I understand the essence of what your saying ;) I dont see this as another split, this is just 2 Breeders going their separate ways. The Tamaskan is still the Tamaskan, and whatever happens in terms of Breeding going forward was always going to happen wether these 2 Breeders where part of the TDR or not.

Also I believe Lynn was only 1 of 4 that started the Breed, but I dont know the full details on who the others were.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by dash » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:53 pm

I have 6 sibes and 1 Tam who is the leader of my pack. I run a husky ride company and the amount of breed snobbery about the sort of dogs that can work in this country is ridiculous. Tamaskans are viewed as a designer crossbreed within the Uk sleddog community, infact she could only race in about 3 races a year and only unless she was spayed and when I asked why to quote " we don't want anymore from those sort of lines."
My Tam is proudly listed on my company website and I talk about her, the breed and how they are a viable option for people that cant handle a husky. I am very proud of my girl and she is an awesome dog and leader. It was not my intention to diss the breed when I have one, I am merely trying to point out how the breed is viewed in other communities!

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Re: I am confused....

Post by nivenj » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:58 pm

Cool, thanks for the clarification :)
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Re: I am confused....

Post by stnkyferit » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:00 pm

Im completely from the outside and this Lynn person committed fraud. Doesnt matter that she is very involved with the breed, started it, etc....she committed fraud by falsifying the identity of the one dog and now the pedigrees need changing...

Fraud....

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Re: I am confused....

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:20 pm

stnkyferit wrote:Im completely from the outside and this Lynn person committed fraud. Doesnt matter that she is very involved with the breed, started it, etc....she committed fraud by falsifying the identity of the one dog and now the pedigrees need changing...

Fraud....
Yes... Yes she did. And i don't know about anyone else but i'm left wondering what else there is. There could be A LOT that no one will know about unless she owns up to it and going by past excuses and more recent (FB Tamaskan page), she isn't going to say nothing to no one that you can't "prove". Even if you can prove it, there will still be denial. People can disagree with that or what ever but fraud is still fraud...
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The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Re: I am confused....

Post by romy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:24 pm

I know Humas a bit and know he gets now more that he asked for ;)
I think the answer on your question is that from what Lynn wrote is that she have the intention to stay but that it is also a matter of would the community let her to stay??

And yes she made great mistakes and yes she committed fraud but I do also think that many of you must try to see trough you anger right now. To close a book for yourself you have to make sure that you know that that is really what you want. Taking all the good and bad sides is something you must not take within that decision but you must think for yourself if you can be able to give Lynn the change to restore that trust.
Making a decision on this just know I think you make that too early.
Like many of us that dealed with this before had a longer time for this.
And in that I can only speak for myself that I pity my self short coming in that but NO I am not able to.......
But maybe after some thinking there are people that are more in lighted as I am...

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Dozer » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:33 pm

ok. Thanks Romy

So just going to make myself stupid I think by asking if I am right on this
So as far I understand know it is just not clear yet for this moment?

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Re: I am confused....

Post by AngieH » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:58 pm

My father always said, "One who cannot be trusted, must be watched."

Would Lynn be willing to let her self be "watched" ?
(as in, overseen, someone else holding the records, providing transparency in all things, being forthcoming with information instead of telling us she will only tell the truth if we ask her nicely, in private, deserve to know and promise to believe her.)

I'm guessing "no"
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Re: I am confused....

Post by Tsir » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:06 pm

Blustag wrote:Jenny (Blufawn) set up the new forum not to interfere with this one but to provide a place where moderators did their jobs and where
there were no politics. Before you jump to conclusions and say that if anyone asks questions they will be deleted forget it. This is
a forum where there will be no name calling or bashing people an honest and open forum. A lot of you have visited it already and even registered. We are not worried how long it takes or how many members join we are not in a rush to prove anything to anyone. You will see that we havnt banned anyone and allowed people to come on. IF people had asked questions in a calm and sensible manner then
they would have been answered. I have also noticed that as soon as one particular post went up today someone saw it and posted
a load of b...s..t on here. You know who you are. Yet another case of lies. Some on here state that Jenny has 'copied' this forum. Another example of how things get twisted which has happened so much on here lately. Jenny set up the very first Tamaskan Forum years ago and it was taken down a good while later because everyone was slagging off certain people.. and NO I wasnt one of them before you start... It was taken down and Debby then set up a new one in her name and copied our old one with some new adjustments so we could make a fresh start.
I may have only my deep interest in owning a tamaskan later in my life, and maybe you're never reading this, but let me tell you this:

What happens when you are offline for one day and the next day there are numerous posts of slander, insults, borderline immature or now even arguing? what good would a forum do that omits arguing?. If there is only praise, info and Q&A, a blog seems more appropiate. Well it is because among the 400 people that are registered on the "new" forum there are some who like to cause trouble. That's how reality is. Friends and "loyal" breeders as moderators may even solve it, until it reaches 1250 and voila: a new forum and the cycle continues. It is not only just the forum.

This community also started among friends and grew every day.
It seems to me that your way of maintaining order can only hold that much.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:19 pm

I've had a pm off a person very worried for their dog living somewhere wolfdogs are illegal (hence buying a Tamaskan) and i can see why he is so extremely p@$$ed off... In the event of the dog been provoked into doing something wrong or moves house and a neighbor takes a dislikes them or someone thinks it looks too "wolfy" to be a dog (as far as this person is concerned, looking wolfy is enough to condemn a dog until proven otherwise)... There is a possibility of them losing their dog as "no, it's a Tamaskan" has no credibility anymore and is now living scared in case the need comes by where the test needs taking... I tried pm'ing back but pm's are now disabled... He feels screwed over and keeping Lynn around will only insult the rest of the people who want to stay but are angry at her for putting them in the position of obey law or keep their dog... (i hope they are one of the 2 hidden so they can see i really want to answer :( )

It would make things simpler if the test could give an accurate % but it doesn't narrow it down enough to save a dog...
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One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

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Rahne

Re: I am confused....

Post by Rahne » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:25 pm

Terri, what do you mean with pm's are now disabled? On this forum?

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Tarheel » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:28 pm

Blustag wrote: I have just come on here and read through a few posts. Firstly let me say that I set up the TDR many years ago when I first started
this breed and copyrighted the name. It was then decided to set up a committe some time later which we did. I own the name and
the website.
What Name did you copyright? What Name do you own?

We are talking about the Register, more specificly the TDR. It is not an ownership but a registering entity for Tamaskan dogs. It is run by a committee of people. Within the new committee Blufawn and Blustag are not a part. Blufawn resigned a few weeks ago, and Blustag resigned as chairman. Under Fiona as Chairman, The TDR was restructured Any records that are held by Blustag and Blufawn are the property of the TDR and not their personal posessions. They will need to be returned to the TDR.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:30 pm

Rahne wrote:Terri, what do you mean with pm's are now disabled? On this forum?
Yes, i'd like to talk more but then i hit post it comes back with "Some users couldn’t be added as they have disabled private message receipt."
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Jen » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:36 pm

Blustag wrote:At no time have I said to anyone they cannot see
certain dogs as was stated by someone on here. Most visitors travel for hours to get here and even come from across the sea so
I make sure that they see all the dogs and get as much information as possible.
After a long time of not speaking out here and letting things go I must speak up and say sorry this is not true. I asked many times to meet your Tamaskans before we had our pup but you always had a reason why not or ignored what i said and when we picked her up, their mother was not with them (on both visits). This is the first time this has ever occured with a puppy I have bought. You would not allow us to meet the other dogs as you were worried they were going to bark. I am not a trouble maker or have any interest in you being attacked or slandered... I just want the truth to be known as you are not being entirely honest here. Sorry. I also recall that the rest of the pups you had at the time (three litters) were given to their new owners from your van at a service station if I remember correctly.... not really ideal although you were also delivering abroad which is more understandable. I would not totally critisise you as a breeder...there are far worse people out there....but you must take on board that many many things you did were unacceptable.

First bit is quote from Lynn...dont know why that has not come up normally !!

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Gabriele58 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:41 pm

dash wrote: Lynn is the founder of the breed and maybe her vision has become clouded. The dog world is crazy with many crazy people in it and sometimes we all can loose our heads/way. Lying about wolf content/ litters is plain daft and to say the DNA tests could be wrong isnt a defence - BUT lynn did start us all on our journies with this breed, directly or indirectly- is there no way to regain the trust?
To stress again I don't know the whole stories and have only been reading threads in the last few days, so forgive me if I've got things wrong!!
I am a very forgiving person and I trust until proven wrong, sometimes even more than once, but even I feel that it's beyond being able to have Lynn regain trust. How can you trust someone who has lied about so much, all the while saying "just trust me".

I bought a Tamaskan BECAUSE of the "no wolf content" speech. He may very well end up testing negative for wolf content and I DO plan on getting him tested, but since he has a "likely" high content wolfdog as a grandfather (on both sides), I have to accept the possibility that he will test positive. Am I going to give him up or love him any less? Of course not, BUT if all of these revelations get out to the general public, as I believe they should, we may not be able to take him with us to certain places and I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think it would even be legal to have him here. My only hope is in the fact that it's still a relatively rare breed and most people won't know about the wolf content issue. I'm thinking in the long run we might have less trouble carrying something that says he's a husky cross, instead of his Tamaskan Dog registration papers. If he does test negative for wolf content, I will carry that with me for proof in case there is ever a question. I can't say that I now don't have a niggling fear that if he even looks at someone wrong and has tested positive for wolf content, he could be taken away from me. I don't even want to contemplate that scenario. He's part of my family now and I'd be heartbroken if I was ever in that situation. I didn't sign up for this when I bought my dog, but I now have to deal with the cards I've been given.

Do I think the current TDR committee can bring us forward and have the best interests of the breed at heart? 100%. Could I ever trust what Lynn says without concrete proof from an outside party?...not a chance.

My only consolation is that within a couple of generations all of our dogs will truly BE dogs, as long as we make sure of the lines we breed with each other.
~Gabriele~

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Katlin » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:47 am

Tarheel wrote:
Blustag wrote: I have just come on here and read through a few posts. Firstly let me say that I set up the TDR many years ago when I first started
this breed and copyrighted the name. It was then decided to set up a committe some time later which we did. I own the name and
the website.
What Name did you copyright? What Name do you own?

We are talking about the Register, more specificly the TDR. It is not an ownership but a registering entity for Tamaskan dogs. It is run by a committee of people. Within the new committee Blufawn and Blustag are not a part. Blufawn resigned a few weeks ago, and Blustag resigned as chairman. Under Fiona as Chairman, The TDR was restructured Any records that are held by Blustag and Blufawn are the property of the TDR and not their personal posessions. They will need to be returned to the TDR.
I was wondering this too, I know Kevin tried to trademark it but I don't think you can copyright a breed of dog, nor the name but correct me if I'm wrong!
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Re: I am confused....

Post by Tiantai » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:52 am

Katlin I believe that you are correct. A breed of dog can only be "registered" and later on be "recognized" by a club such as the AKC is what I heard. But dogs are not items and breed names aren't brand names so I don't think it's possible to copyright a breed name :?
I don't know for sure, but I think you're correct nonetheless
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Re: I am confused....

Post by BinBin » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:19 am

Tarheel wrote:We are talking about the Register, more specificly the TDR. It is not an ownership but a registering entity for Tamaskan dogs. It is run by a committee of people. Within the new committee Blufawn and Blustag are not a part. Blufawn resigned a few weeks ago, and Blustag resigned as chairman. Under Fiona as Chairman, The TDR was restructured Any records that are held by Blustag and Blufawn are the property of the TDR and not their personal posessions. They will need to be returned to the TDR.
John, you are absolutely correct but this will not stop her. I was the chairman of the British and International Utonagan Society when she decided to create Tamaskan and she never delivered me any of the paper work of the club or the registry. I did ask for them. So chances are, you will never see any of the papers again.

Also, TDR is a registry. Who is stopping you in creating a breed club around it? Your committee can run it, and the registry can be part of it, perhaps as I earlier suggested as breeding related work force under the club. With club you can have more options of member fees (this will also give you a list of those who can vote in committee elections, attend member meetings, get the member newsletter etc), member merchandise and so on. This would need time but I'm only throwing ideas for the future. :) This is how our Sibe club works and it works very well. Membership fees cover most sibe magazine costs and we are able to have races etc. With a membership people have a choice to be a part and they can also join if they dont own a dog yet or just want to support.

For now, I also suggest putting up a new Tamaskan Dog Registry FB community, to which people may change from the old Tamaskan Fb group that seems to continue under Lynn & Jennie's control. It is the only BIG social media group in there and the more people hear only their side of the story, the more difficult it is for you to say it like it is. Let me know of you need help, like I said before if you need my files or photos, they are yours.
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outsiders view.....

Post by wolfwannabe » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:56 pm

Sorry not sure where to put this so please feel free to move or merge with another topic if liked.

I was just thinking with all that is going on, how on earth would someone new to this wolf look-a-like world know where to start???

I've only been around these dogs for 5 years and I think I've managed to work out who is who, but can you even begin to imagine coming in fresh today...

First there was the Northern Inuit, then British Inuit (now British wolfdog) and Utonagan not sure which came first of these two, now lets see is it then Tamaskan then Atuu Tamaskan, American Tamaskan, Tamaskan Wolfdog, there is also the British Timber dog, British Utonagan oh have I missed any.... Probably.... Oh nearly forgot Anglo wulfdog, oh and for awhile no more there was the crywolf dogs not sure if these were in a group I believe they were originally British Inuits.

Now there looks like there will be two groups of Tamaskans going under the same name. Oh dear god my head hurts.

Now I have always tried to be neutral and am a member of 4 no 5 forums but post very little in any of them. I just like the dogs. I have nothing against any of the dogs or any of the owners, some of the breeders leave me frustrated, why do they LIE... WHY... I don't get it, some are definitly in it only for the money. Some really don't care. I know there are good breeders out there who love and care for their dogs, breeders who have the best intentions, but how do we know who is who.

When I found the Tamaskans probably 4 years ago now I just watched from a distance then finally joined this forum and thought I'd finally found a honest group, now I find out about all the lies LIES again.

At the moment to be honest I would not buy from any of these groups.... Too many health concerns too many LIES... The only one I'd probably go to at the moment is Anglo wulfdogs. I will keep watching the Tamaskan with interest, I have not yet written them off.

My first love will always be the Saarloos Wolfhund but getting a pedigree one in this country is impossible too many mixed ones about with owners LIEING about their pedigree. After the fuss with crywolf and his Saarloos I doubt very much any decent euro breeder would allow a puppy to be imported to this country, then again from what I've read there are health concerns within that breed too. Which is very sad.

Oh sorry I didn't mean to rant and go off topic :oops: now I've completely lost my train of thought :oops:

As you can tell I HATE LIES and people who lie.

Sadly I see no future for the wolf look-a-like dogs as long as these splits carry on. I have a dream :roll: where everyone pulls together, all the groups, and work to create the ultimate wolfie type dog, a group where no one does it for the money... where everyone puts their dogs first,,,, where everyone health tests,,,, oh and NOBODY BLOODY LIES, oh well I guess I can take those rose coloured glasses off now :roll:

For now I will continue to watch the TDR Tamaskan with interest, I hope all goes well, you all keep honest and your dogs thrive and become even more beautiful if that is possible.

Good luck

ps if I have offended anyone it was not meant, and I am sorry, this is just my personal opinion.
Mel.

Zeus 10.02.2007 - 24.07.2012 Rest in peace my boy, you'll always be missed.

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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:01 pm

Outside opinion is always good ;) I'm sure people appreciate it... :)
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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:02 pm

wolfwannabe wrote:Sadly I see no future for the wolf look-a-like dogs as long as these splits carry on. I have a dream :roll: where everyone pulls together, all the groups, and work to create the ultimate wolfie type dog, a group where no one does it for the money... where everyone puts their dogs first,,,, where everyone health tests,,,, oh and NOBODY BLOODY LIES, oh well I guess I can take those rose coloured glasses off now :roll:
We all have this dream. I know I do....
But it's the people that get in the way: personal agendas, vendettas, ego, money, greed, lies, corruption.
Welcome to the human experience called life. :(
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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by Dozer » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:46 pm

I am not so long among this forum and think it indeed is hard for new people where to start but I do think that this time is a time that many come together again. At least maybe not as a whole but as working together again because now the main issues of the lie they all work to get that out I think.
But in any dogworld it is something and that is if you want a dog no matter what kind you must be able to relly on your breeder and I do not mean on there words but I mean that they show you papers and tell of stuff in the lines etc even before you ask

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Megaen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:48 pm

Katlin wrote:
Tarheel wrote:
Blustag wrote: I have just come on here and read through a few posts. Firstly let me say that I set up the TDR many years ago when I first started
this breed and copyrighted the name. It was then decided to set up a committe some time later which we did. I own the name and
the website.
What Name did you copyright? What Name do you own?

We are talking about the Register, more specificly the TDR. It is not an ownership but a registering entity for Tamaskan dogs. It is run by a committee of people. Within the new committee Blufawn and Blustag are not a part. Blufawn resigned a few weeks ago, and Blustag resigned as chairman. Under Fiona as Chairman, The TDR was restructured Any records that are held by Blustag and Blufawn are the property of the TDR and not their personal posessions. They will need to be returned to the TDR.
I was wondering this too, I know Kevin tried to trademark it but I don't think you can copyright a breed of dog, nor the name but correct me if I'm wrong!
fangjingtuanlucas wrote:Katlin I believe that you are correct. A breed of dog can only be "registered" and later on be "recognized" by a club such as the AKC is what I heard. But dogs are not items and breed names aren't brand names so I don't think it's possible to copyright a breed name :?
I don't know for sure, but I think you're correct nonetheless
I've never heard of anyone being able to copyright a dog breed, only thing she might have copyrighted is the TDR but I think that was discussed in another post?? As Lucas said breeds can be "registered' and then "recognized" by a Kennel Club. Think about it if dog breeds were able to be copyrighted wouldn't there be breeds "recreated and copyrighted" every day with all the mills out in this world?

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Megaen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:50 pm

BinBin wrote:For now, I also suggest putting up a new Tamaskan Dog Registry FB community, to which people may change from the old Tamaskan Fb group that seems to continue under Lynn & Jennie's control. It is the only BIG social media group in there and the more people hear only their side of the story, the more difficult it is for you to say it like it is. Let me know of you need help, like I said before if you need my files or photos, they are yours.
I think this is a good idea as well

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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by Taz » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:11 pm

Exactly my thoughts, i'll say it again, the wolf lookalike worlds a bloody mess, it was that way when I found it, nothing's changed.

Perhaps people here will now understand why I keep repeating it.

I just can't believe I gave them a chance to prove me wrong, I knew better and I pushed those feelings aside because people can change right?
Because I've been criticised by breeders for misjudging them, for not giving them a chance. But yet, every time I do, I'm only proven right.

Frankly, I've about lost the will to care anymore...and yet, I still hope to be proven wrong, perhaps Debby etc will be. The ones to do it finally.
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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by wen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:22 pm

wolfwannabe wrote: At the moment to be honest I would not buy from any of these groups.... Too many health concerns too many LIES...
me too, I wouldn't, as long as things are not settle.
Nevertheless, to be frank, I also think that Tamaskan are too expensive for an unrecognized breed (I mean that, to be honest, in the differents countries, Tamaskan, are considered as crossed-breed) when there is some spending (due to the registration of pure-breed dogs etc), which are not happening for the moment (as long as the breed is not recognized). I know that we are not a lot thinking that Tamaskan are expensives (or at least, not openly), but, for me, buying a "cross-breed", as much or even more than a pure breed (even a rare pure-breed), is not thinkable (well as long as I don't win to the lotery lol).
I mean I rather like buying a dog cheaper and spending the difference in confort for it etc, than spending 2 months of salary and being broke and unable to deal with costs ;)


For the rest of the debat that wolfwannabe openned, maybe a change of name could be the solution ? In order to be sure that the actual Tamaskan (with the new rules), won't be confused with the aatu or the american ?
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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by morningstar » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:31 pm

I have no idea what's being going on with everything as I have not been on the forum long -must say its a little off putting - I just wanted to learn about the breed and hopefully get my own Tamaskan in a few years time but I have no idea who's in the right or wrong, and I really don't care just so long as when it comes to it I can find a nice and healthy Tamaskan pup (in the UK) - because I just want a lovely dog!!

with breeding anything there's always division (trust me I know I'm a fancy mouse breeder and you'll be surprised what some breeders of just mice will stoop to (like stealing mice!)) but I do hope the division that is going on with the wolf lookalike community can be sorted though -as from an outsiders view it doesn't give the tamaskan a good reputation, and will end up driving new potential breeders/owners away.

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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by AZDehlin » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:42 pm

morningstar wrote:I have no idea what's being going on with everything as I have not been on the forum long -must say its a little off putting - I just wanted to learn about the breed and hopefully get my own Tamaskan in a few years time but I have no idea who's in the right or wrong, and I really don't care just so long as when it comes to it I can find a nice and healthy Tamaskan pup (in the UK) - because I just want a lovely dog!!

with breeding anything there's always division (trust me I know I'm a fancy mouse breeder and you'll be surprised what some breeders of just mice will stoop to (like stealing mice!)) but I do hope the division that is going on with the wolf lookalike community can be sorted though -as from an outsiders view it doesn't give the tamaskan a good reputation, and will end up driving new potential breeders/owners away.
I think this will get sorted out soon and we will be a stronger more open community. We are just going through a committee change, the two breeders that have left did it of their own will. Any of the breeders on here will kindly answer your questions about the health and temperament of their dogs.

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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:05 am

As a future owner (plan to get my first pup in 2016 or around that time) I am not worried about the splitting and stuff because although the community has suffered a great loss as the two founders decided to leave, the TDR is still together and as an old saying, to move forward, some sacrifices have to be made. In this case, we did lose Blustag and Blufawn but the new community is in the middle of a transition and everyone who is still here is working closely, Amit, John, Debby, Rahne, Nino, and many devoted fans like myself. We're not falling apart and we will continue to pull together to achieve a brighter future for the breed! The TDR has come this far and will most definitely not be destroyed by some tiny splitting off by the former founders. We can still improve the breed without them.
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Re: outsiders view.....

Post by Taz » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:04 am

I wish you all the best of luck, I'll be watching with interest.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by Nino » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:04 pm

I just have a thought and a question..

In the eyes of you guys who think this has gone "over board" what should the remaining people/owners/breeders have done?
Don't you think what they are trying to do now is the way to go?
or maybe you think that they should have done something different - after finding out how things were?
Maybe you think it should have rested?


I just had to ask you, because this is the third time at least that the Blues have parted with a group and even though I gave them the benefit of the doubt myself (which I did, else I wouldn't have gotten involved at all!). One time you can part because of disagreements, two times becomes rather strange but can still be accepted as coincident.. thee times? I no longer can see any excuses that can be made..
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me..
fool me three times.. wtf :roll:
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Re: I am confused....

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:10 pm

Nino wrote:Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me..
fool me three times.. wtf
:lol: I like that...

Well, i did ask why it always happens to them and maybe they should look closer to home instead of passing the blame because it's happening each time with a different circle of people...

I think they truly believe they are right in all this. They will argue till the end of time about it. they are also going to be saying the exact same thing about the committee members and supporters hear as they have been saying about tuuli and everyone else the past few years. it's one continuous circle with them and i don't think it will ever end unless someone cam put a halt to their breeding...

Nino... Pm ;)
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Re: I am confused....

Post by Canadia » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:35 am

If Blufawn and Blustag are separating themselves from this TDR committee what of the future breeders who are planning on using Blustag/fawn dogs to breed? Will their dogs still be seen as acceptable?

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Tiantai » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:09 am

Canadia wrote:If Blufawn and Blustag are separating themselves from this TDR committee what of the future breeders who are planning on using Blustag/fawn dogs to breed? Will their dogs still be seen as acceptable?
At the moment, I THINK dogs born from registered Tamaskan they breed (that being prior to them leaving) CAN be registered but I don't know about the ones from the German Shepherd outcross though.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by nivenj » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:44 am

A TDR Registered Dog is still a TDR Registered dog as far as I know. In order for a kennel to register new pups, the kennel must be an approved TDR Breeder, which I assume the Blu's no longer are due to their unethical practices and also the fact they left to go it alone. I would have thought therefore that if another Kennel, who is registered uses a Blu stud dog then the litter can be registered. Not entirely sure though that it would work the other way round.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:52 pm

I would think each dog would be treated on a case by case basis. Perhaps some of you still have deposits with one of them. Surely, no one would expect you to throw money away. But at the same time, there have to be consequences for wrongdoing so I doubt there would be open acceptance of puppies or stud service.
But for folks out there wondering there is no loss as far as bloodlines. Collectively, we all have what she has anyhow. Look up all the siblings of the dogs in your pups pedigree and you'll see what I mean.
We will move forward and succeed. I think everyone is just catching their breath right now.
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Re: I am confused....

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:42 pm

Hawthorne wrote:We will move forward and succeed.
I love to see thing like this :D Move onward and forward to the most awesomest breed ever! :mrgreen:

I (personal opinion) think they could be registered IF they can offer an exceptional quality not seen anywhere else but if you register every dog just because some still have deposits, then Lynn can still sell her dogs and get them registered as if nothing happened...
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The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Re: I am confused....

Post by arianwenarie » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:56 am

Hawthorne wrote:I would think each dog would be treated on a case by case basis. Perhaps some of you still have deposits with one of them. Surely, no one would expect you to throw money away. But at the same time, there have to be consequences for wrongdoing so I doubt there would be open acceptance of puppies or stud service.
+1. 8-)

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Re: I am confused....

Post by AZDehlin » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:27 am

arianwenarie wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:I would think each dog would be treated on a case by case basis. Perhaps some of you still have deposits with one of them. Surely, no one would expect you to throw money away. But at the same time, there have to be consequences for wrongdoing so I doubt there would be open acceptance of puppies or stud service.
+1. 8-)
I agree

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Re: I am confused....

Post by Tiantai » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:54 am

I have the feeling that even if many of the blu's future dogs don't get registered by the new TDR (that being this one that's moved on) the two founders may still sell their dogs as if they were registered with the old one. Afterall, they left, and yet they still claim to be part of the "original" TDR and have made it look as if all of us ditched them as seen in their "new" forum. :roll: Sure...
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