Question about breeders (UK)

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rosemont
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Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:45 am

Hi, I've been looking into getting a Tamaskan for a few years now and am finally in the position to save for one. I've been in frequent contact with Blustag (Lynn) and use their forum. Everyone on there seems happy with their dogs and helpful, and I was aware through some internet research about the USA "Blustag" scandal, but because I'm obsessed I was doing more research and found this forum and subsequent information about the UK Blustag and Blufawn and how they're not linked to the official TDR.

Now I'm not really sure where I could get a pup in the UK, what breeders to use and so on, and hoped you guys could help. I'm pretty sad and disappointed about the whole thing because like I said my contact with Lynn and the owners of her dogs has only been positive, and I'm a little torn because I've seen recent litters grow up into lovely looking dogs, but I don't want mine to be unregistered or potentially outcrossed with Mals or Huskies.

Thanks for any help in advance :)

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:30 am

Well a lot can be said about the Blustag in the USA as well as the UK, but here's a good site that puts everything on the table :) http://www.tamaskansagainstpuppymills.com/
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:09 pm

Yeah, I've read that information, thanks - I'm now looking for alternate breeders that are either in or close to the UK? The UK ones listed on this forum don't seem to have active websites or facebooks, or haven't updated anything since 2012/2013

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:40 pm

Well Debby (Sylvaen Tamaskans) just had puppies, but as far as I know none of the UK breeders are breeding this year. I do know that Germany also recently had puppies as well, http://www.tamaskan-germany.de/

Sorry to not be of more help. I did notice that several websites have not been updated. I hope those breeders update soon.
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:01 pm

Thank you for the help :) it wouldn't be for this year, maybe next, I'm just trying to figure something out since I was all set to go on Blustag's waiting list and now I can't really do that :( I've messaged Sylvaen Tamaskans on facebook for some information and I'll have a look at the German breeders too

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by nyodenyo » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:36 pm

I'm looking for a tamaskan too, I emailed Germans, and they didn't answer me.
I send the form to Sylvaen Tamaskan too, and they didn't answer me either. (and FB don't want to send a message for me to them :/) Maybe I don't deserve a puppy y_y

I think waiting is the best for now. I hope you will find your very own pup ^^

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:06 pm

Don't be too worried about it. Most of the breeders are fairly busy, and Debby (Sylvaen) just had two litters and her own baby. Be patient, and if you don't hear back within a week or two then maybe send along another email :) Definitely don't resort to using either of the Blustags, Blufawn, or Poachersfarm.
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:59 pm

I don't think I'm interested in the German or Dutch breeders since they're no longer part of the TDR either. I might get in touch with Starlight Tamaskans through email too and ask about their future plans, I'm not looking to get a dog immediately but it's pretty sad that all the Tamaskan breeders in the UK are either inactive or not reputable :( shipping costs aren't exactly cheap. I hope you have some luck in one of them responding within a reasonable time Nyodendo :)

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by nyodenyo » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:35 pm

Katlin wrote:Don't be too worried about it. Most of the breeders are fairly busy, and Debby (Sylvaen) just had two litters and her own baby. Be patient, and if you don't hear back within a week or two then maybe send along another email :) Definitely don't resort to using either of the Blustags, Blufawn, or Poachersfarm.
OMG, all these babies to take care of °_°
I'm lucky, I discovered the history of Poachersfarm, blustag and everything, thanks to tamaskanagasinstpuppymills just before being on the waiting list!
Why is there always this kind of people in every hobby, as soon as there is money in game...

Thanks so much Rosemont! I wish you the same luck too <3
As Starlight Tamaskan is on the TDR's website, they seems trustworthy, aren't they?

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:11 am

Yeah Starlight are one of the registered breeders, but they haven't announced anything about any future litters for a while.
I'm pretty much in the same situation, I was going to go on Blustag's waiting list after christmas, they were the only Tamaskan people I've had any experience with and I didn't see any reason to distrust the founders of the breed, so I'm glad I did some extra rooting around on the internet first.

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Vajente » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:00 am

rosemont wrote:I don't think I'm interested in the German or Dutch breeders since they're no longer part of the TDR either. I might get in touch with Starlight Tamaskans through email too and ask about their future plans, I'm not looking to get a dog immediately but it's pretty sad that all the Tamaskan breeders in the UK are either inactive or not reputable :( shipping costs aren't exactly cheap. I hope you have some luck in one of them responding within a reasonable time Nyodendo :)
Some off the dutch breeders are also registered with the TDR (Van 't Aelse Sluske, Sunkmanitu tanka o'waci and Morass)

Good you did your research! I have a blustag dog and my experience with them is far from good

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by nyodenyo » Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:03 pm

I sent a message to Starlight, she seems very nice! She told me that I can send her already 200£ to be on the waiting list. But there isn't any plan yet.
Is it normal? All breeders do to same, and ask a deposit such a long time before the litter? Even before knowing the bitch is pregnant? I read something about this on this forum (in the french part) that people would be crazy to send money such a long time before the litter
She didn't even ask me to come to see her dogs, and the futur puppies, it remind me of blustag and poachers farm I have to say >.<
I also saw that she has blustags and blufawns females.

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:44 pm

Vajente wrote:Some off the dutch breeders are also registered with the TDR (Van 't Aelse Sluske, Sunkmanitu tanka o'waci and Morass)

Good you did your research! I have a blustag dog and my experience with them is far from good
Thanks for the info :) I was a little worried because a lot of the dutch websites said that they would choose your puppy for you, and while I'm all for matching the right pup to the right owner I'd really like a choice.
nyodenyo wrote:I also saw that she has blustags and blufawns females.
I think a lot of breeders have used or still use Blustag/Blufawn lines because they were the founding breeders. Sylvaen's dogs look like they originate from Blustag lines too, I wouldn't worry about it because their pups will always be health tested and hip scored etc. so you know that you'll be getting a healthy dog.

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:44 pm

I wouldn't recommend it. The bitch may not get pregnant, the puppies may die, etc. Lots of things can go wrong. Most breeders wait untila few days after the litter is BORN to accept deposits.
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:11 pm

Katlin wrote:I wouldn't recommend it. The bitch may not get pregnant, the puppies may die, etc. Lots of things can go wrong. Most breeders wait untila few days after the litter is BORN to accept deposits.
I just checked my emails and Starlight had replied to me and didn't mention anything about a deposit or the waiting list, she just said that she's planning a litter for late next year.

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Vajente » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:54 pm

rosemont wrote:
Vajente wrote:Some off the dutch breeders are also registered with the TDR (Van 't Aelse Sluske, Sunkmanitu tanka o'waci and Morass)

Good you did your research! I have a blustag dog and my experience with them is far from good
Thanks for the info :) I was a little worried because a lot of the dutch websites said that they would choose your puppy for you, and while I'm all for matching the right pup to the right owner I'd really like a choice.
The dutch breeders do work with a puppytest and match owner to puppy accordingly but you can off course always say no if the pup isn't what you want. And most breeders are willing to work with you on that.

I would not pay or ask a deposit before there is any puppy born.

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by nyodenyo » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:14 pm

That's what I thought! Thank you <3

She said to me "if you want to go on a waiting list I would ask for a £200 non refundable deposit and you would have the first choice of puppy."
Maybe I understood in a wrong way?

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by firleymj » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:04 am

Please understand a few things:

1. There really are good breeders, but sometimes all does not go according to human plans. I alas, only have a stud, and it's hard to find a geographically desirable mate, so I know the pain in a different way. Do NOT give up hope, please. And give the folks who look good to you a second and maybe even a third chance. For personal reasons and public holidays, this is a rotten time to start new correspondence chains.

2. There are special circumstances with the TDR affiliated clubs in Germany and the Netherlands, while the "Against Puppy Mill" stuff is pretty much as it reads. There's no substitute for research and possibly visits (my breeders more or less insisted, and I'm glad they did). And no matter what anybody asserts, no dog is "guaranteed" to be anything but a dog. At least with TDR breeders and TDR affiliated clubs, you can know that what can reasonably done has been done to get you a healthy new family member.

3. I'll spare you my usual long rant about why a TDR breeder is better. You can start a minor war between breeders about what constitutes "best practices" the point is that ALL TDR breeders and those in affiliated clubs have agreed to a pretty impressive minimum standard. Over and above that is just salmon sprinkled on the kibble. :)

4. I'll tell you what was until now, unpublished. My wonderful, amazing, loving, talented, occasionally goofy dog Kona wasn't my first pick of the litter - after extensive time interviewing me and performing "puppy aptitude testing" on the litter, my breeders did a little arm-twisting to encourage me to take the dog they thought was best for me. They were right, I was wrong (see, it is possible for the XY chromosome to admit it without disaster). He may not be the perfect dog, but it didn't take long to realize that Kona's the perfect dog FOR ME. And that's where I begin and end it. You can read our diaries on this site to get an idea of how truly wonderful he is.

5. I'll say this - the wait was worth it ten times over. May your quest for a Tamaskan be fulfilled, and may your dog bring you the blessings mine has brought me. For me, he has been an instrument of Divine love and healing. The wait will be worth it to get the right dog. (Who knows, someday it may be one of my grand-dogs :) )
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by nyodenyo » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:03 am

Thank you so much firleymj for sharing your experience!
This is my way of thinking. So I'm happy to read you.

I did rats litters, and this is really not the same way to do than dogs (at least in France, even if it's a world full of little supid wars) and my first dog is a rescue dog, so I don't know how it is to adopt a breeder's dog, how it's supposed to happen (how are supposed the be the first contacts, when you have to go to visit the breeder's place, when you are supposed to put a deposit...) I guess it depends on every breeders, and the importance of doing a lot of researches, and not be hurry to buy the first puppy, but wait for the right one for yourself.

The most important (to me) is to find the breeder who will provide a healthy dog, with a good mental, and a not too bad standard. And furthermore, a breeder who doesn't lie on his dogs genealogies, and take care correctly of his own dogs, in good conditions. So indeed, it's better to go yourself make your own opinion.

It's hard to find all the good and real informations, especially when you don't speak english perfectly >w<

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:45 pm

Thanks for that firleymj :) I'm glad your dog turned out to be as amazing as you hoped him to be.

and nyodenyo, Starlight told me about the non-refundable deposit and now I'm not really sure if I want to use her as a breeder either. I understand her reasoning behind it (people dropping out of her last litter leaving her with 3 of the pups) but I told her that if she advertised her plans for the litter on here and kept her facebook page up to date she'd probably get tons of interest, and that the deposit before the litter is born would put people off. I don't want to be roped into buying a pup from a certain litter before I've even seen them and see that they suit me, so I'm a bit concerned, though her location would be be the best for me.

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:55 pm

I paid a deposit for a breeder who had a little planned for a bitch I liked. It was $400. After a few months they mentioned that the bitch was not pregnant. I found another breeder who's bitch WAS pregnant (Sierra) and the first breeder sent the deposit to Sierra. I don't think most breeders will do this and I'm very thankful they did. However I did lose $50 in the process and I really kicked myself for paying without even knowing. Personally, I definitely would not pay for a little with puppies that aren't on the ground.

nyodenyo - your english is phenomenal! And this is an international forum ;)

Rosemont - do what you are comfortable with, this is a lot of money and a lifetime commitment for the puppy. YOU should feel 100% comfortable :)
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:54 am

nyodenyo wrote:I'm looking for a tamaskan too, I emailed Germans, and they didn't answer me.
I send the form to Sylvaen Tamaskan too, and they didn't answer me either. (and FB don't want to send a message for me to them :/) Maybe I don't deserve a puppy y_y

I think waiting is the best for now. I hope you will find your very own pup ^^
Sorry for not responding... I have such a huge backlog of emails because I get so many applications every day and with the puppies keeping me so busy it is difficult to find the time to reply to all the emails (especially as I respond to each individual enquiry with detailed information) so it is a very time-consuming process. I have 28 more emails to go (for now) so I can see light at the end of the tunnel... finally!
nyodenyo wrote:I sent a message to Starlight, she seems very nice! She told me that I can send her already 200£ to be on the waiting list. But there isn't any plan yet.
Is it normal? All breeders do to same, and ask a deposit such a long time before the litter? Even before knowing the bitch is pregnant? I read something about this on this forum (in the french part) that people would be crazy to send money such a long time before the litter
She didn't even ask me to come to see her dogs, and the futur puppies, it remind me of blustag and poachers farm I have to say >.<
I also saw that she has blustags and blufawns females.
We never accept deposits in advance. Once pregnancy is confirmed, via ultrasound, we will then contact everyone on our waiting list to let them know that puppies are on the way. When the puppies are born and we know how many male pups and female pups there are, and which colors, we will then inform everyone on our waiting list and at that point we will begin accepting deposits / payments. We don’t accept any deposits in advance, just in case anything goes wrong during late pregnancy or whelping. This means that you may still opt out at any time up until the puppies are born… nothing is set in stone and you are not committed to making any final decisions up until that point. This is because we want to be sure that you are thoroughly certain about your decision and not feel pressured or rushed to decide. After all, your puppy will grow into a dog that will share the next 12-15 years of your life – this is a very important decision! Of course you will want to be fully certain that the timing is right in your life and that you are fully satisfied with all the health test results of the sire and dam (hips, elbows, eyes, DM, etc), which you will receive copies of before you pay the deposit. Once the puppies are born and you have paid your deposit / first payment, then the reservation is set.
rosemont wrote:Thanks for the info :) I was a little worried because a lot of the dutch websites said that they would choose your puppy for you, and while I'm all for matching the right pup to the right owner I'd really like a choice.
We always do our best to ensure that you will get exactly the puppy you want, in terms of sex and color (your perfect “dream puppy”) but temperament is the most important factor to ensure a satisfactory long-term match and, therefore, we usually don’t allocate individual puppies until the pups are a bit older and have been professionally evaluated for temperament. Once the pupppies are a little bit older (around 5-6 weeks old) everyone who has reserved one (of a specific sex) gets to select their top 3 favorites. In the case of very large litters, everyone gets to select their top 5 puppies (in order) and must then write a short statement as to why they are particularly drawn to the top 3 on their list (to see exactly what features each person is looking for: coat color, eye color, ear size, tail carriage, etc etc) since some people want a light color puppy, others want a dark color puppy, and some people have something specific in mind (such as a puppy that used to look like their previous dog) etc etc. Then, in accordance with the temperament evaluations (at 6-7 weeks old) to see which pups would be best matched to which homes, I'll try to ensure that everyone gets one of their top 3 favorite pups... so that everyone is happy and each puppy is ideally matched to the perfect home in terms of temperament / character / energy level, in accordance with the new owners' lifestyle, planned activities, etc.
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by nyodenyo » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:39 pm

Thank you so much for your message! I'm sorry if my message hurt you, I didn't mean to. I know you have a lot of work with your baby and the pups! I totally understand that you can't answer to every mail in a second :)
I hope you will find some time to take some rest!
We never accept deposits in advance.
That's what I thought! Thanks for your confirmation. I'll wait for your mail answer patiently <3
I prefer to adopt from a breeder I trust, because adopting a dog is not a small decision.
Thanks so much for all these informations <3

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:51 pm

No problem and no worries! I will reply ASAP! :D
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:38 pm

Thanks for all the info :) I wondered what age you ship out pups to other countries (specifically UK?)

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Taz » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:09 am

I believe that the earliest age a puppy can be imported here is around 15 weeks.
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:20 am

Taz wrote:I believe that the earliest age a puppy can be imported here is around 15 weeks.
That's what I thought but I wanted to be certain. Thanks :)

I've actually been talking to Jacinda some more and she's agreed to deposits being placed once the pregnancy is confirmed (hopefully into late pregnancy so that I know there isn't going to be any problems) so I'll have to see how I feel after the new year.

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by kitsune » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:18 pm

Hi, I hope what I say now doesn't make me hated here, but I've just got a puppy from Blustag, one of the Koda/Amber litter, I have to say that my experience with Lynn has been a good one (although I'll admit she is a little nutty - like most animal lovers).

Before even deciding on the breed I phoned her up and asked if I could visit to see the breed in face to face, i made it very clear I was not ready to make the commitment to buy a pup, she had no problem with this so I drove up and she welcomed me in introduced me to the many where I was able to go up to the front of their runs and interact with any of the dogs, they all seemed happy, energetic and very friendly! She then brought me to the garden and brought out her old bitch Seagull and a young dog Silver. Seagull was in great shape and Silver was so gentle and friendly. She then let a litter of pups out (all had been bought and she made no effort to 'sell' me any.

She told me about her plans for future litters of which I did state again that I was in the middle of moving and was not ready but was very interested once settled. We discussed her deposit scheme whereby you could mark your interest with a deposit which would be held until you decided you wanted a puppy (the longer you had a deposit with her you would be prioritised when choosing a pup)

A month later I paid my deposit and said I'd be interested in the up coming Amber litter, she explained that I would be low on the waiting list but that others may still not be ready. She also said that she could not guarantee Amber would go in pup (I thought this was fairly obvious 'nature' and all that lol) but thought it was nice of her to point out just in case.

The litter was born and I asked if I could have a light coloured, medium energy bitch... And thats exactly what I got, she had got three white girls in the litter. I was sent a few photos as she grew up and at the 9 week mark I went to collect her. Along with a sound contract, recipt, pedigree and advice for new puppy owner about worming, vaccs etc. I even brought a friend who is interested in the breed which she had no problem with.

So far my pup has been a delight, obviously well looked after, knows to go on newspaper rather than all over the house. Making great progress with going outside too. Lynn has also messaged me asking about progress and I am in touch with the owners of the daddy and the other sisters from the litter.

I don't know if I am just lucky but I have had a good experience.

Again sorry if I have created enemies but I just feel a bit sorry for her, she seems to have made a fair few stupid mistakes in the past and is really paying for them! However I liked her a lot and given that she is one of the founders the dogs really are her life.

Anyways here is my little girl Blustag Black mamba (lol) - Okami
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Sylvaen » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:59 pm

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new pup! :D
Hopefully your girl won't have as many temperament (insecurity / SA) issues as Winter, the first white Tam... :?
kitsune wrote:The litter was born and I asked if I could have a light coloured, medium energy bitch... And thats exactly what I got, she had got three white girls in the litter. I was sent a few photos as she grew up and at the 9 week mark I went to collect her. Along with a sound contract, recipt, pedigree and advice for new puppy owner about worming, vaccs etc. I even brought a friend who is interested in the breed which she had no problem with.
Did you also get copies of Koda and Amber's BVA hip and elbow score certificates, eye exam certificates, DM test certificates and DNA profiles (to verify parentage)? I HOPE so!! Particularly the DNA profiles as most of their "pedigrees" aren't worth the paper they're printed on (lol). As so many of their pups end up with health problems, I really hope you have pet insurance... anyway, I'll keep my fingers crossed that your girl stays healthy and has a long and happy life with you! Feel free to share lots of photos in the Gallery section! :D
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by kitsune » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:28 pm

Thanks!

I have a copy of hip scores somewhere, I don't know what the DNA profiling looks like as I'm just an average pet owner but the stud dog has a private owner (whom I know) and I saw Amber again when I was picking up my little girl.
I knew about the Foxy scandal lol, like others I did my research, and that is what I was referring to when I said she had made a fair few mistakes. I would imagine an unplanned back to back mating would have not gone down well, however panicking and trying to cover it up was silly in the extreme!

Temperament wise she is really good, I've taken her out a lot (carried as we still need our second vacc) and she has been very friendly to everyone of all shapes and sizes! I haven't allowed any contact with other dogs yet again due to vacc but she has shown interest through the car window and in the vet waiting room.
As for any health problems I definitely have insurance and on top of that I work for a local vet so I'm pretty covered on that.

I do hope that in time she will stay as happy and healthy as she is now. :D

In saying all this I noticed that many registered breeders have blustag dogs including one from the dodgy pedigree litter so they can't be all bad! :P I do find is sad that breeders can't admit mistakes and see eye to eye. All it does is make pet owners feel like they are treading on eggshells on one side or the other. Which I'd like to think I won't to do!

Anyways I'd far rather this breed than some of the Pedigree dogs that have debilitating illnesses bred into them almost purposefully :shock: . Goodness only knows what the politics are like for them!!

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:03 am

Hey Kitsune :) I have to admit I'm struggling with some internal guilt about all this because like I said in my original post my contact with Lynn has all been positive and all her dogs and the current owners' dogs seem happy and healthy and it's a friendly little community - but having learnt what I've learnt I feel like I can no longer trust Lynn. I really dislike being deceived and they are obviously deceiving people by creating their own self contained little place on the internet, saying they're the only registered Tamaskan breeders and basically demonising the real TDR (not a very mature thing to do in the first place). My main issue is that if I bought from Lynn I wouldn't be guaranteed a healthy pup and they wouldn't be officially registered. I want honesty from my breeder and I'm obviously not going to get that from Lynn.

My original reason for digging around for more information was because Lynn was breeding white Tams, and they aren't even a recognised colour for this breed. Okami is beautiful (I said this before, she really is adorable) and I'm really glad you're happy with her and that your interactions with Lynn have been good but I'm not risking purchasing from her even though it does make me feel a little bad because she's been nothing but nice to me. I suppose she would have no reason to be unfriendly though if she's expecting me to offload hundreds of pounds on a puppy. At the end of the day I think she ought to be held responsible for her actions, I don't feel like it was a silly mistake so much as irresponsible breeding. I'm definitely not mad at you for making the decisions you have though because you obviously thought it through and decided on the best thing for you, and I hope you're not mad at me for making a decision that is best for me :)

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:18 am

Most breeders has Blustags original stock because Lynn was one of the only breeders (she bashed one until they quit and the other stopped because her dogs ended up in a puppy mill). Purchasers were also not aware of all the cover-ups like hip scores, different parents, father to daughter breedings, repeat breedings, and unapproved outcrosses. You'll notice now that no reputable breeders have purchased a Blustag / Blufawn / Poachers farm / Sugulba (whatever you want to call them) puppy since finding out these issues :)

Your puppy is very cute, I hope she turns out well :)
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by kitsune » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:30 pm

I hope you're not mad at me for making a decision that is best for me :)
no definitely not! I didn't post to make people feel bad about it in the slightest, I just felt with all the negativity towards Lynn I wanted to share MY positive experience which I hope will continue. :)

I hope in the future to have my pup registered with both although I know getting the info I need for this will not be easy as Lynn feels betrayed by the original forum even though she seems to have caused most of her own problems through various means, so I don't believe she will release the info easily(So far I still like her and her dogs)
Lynn was breeding white Tams, and they aren't even a recognised colour for this breed.
I know this too however this was a personal thing for me, I am thrilled about the colour and very interested to see how it changes and develops :D there have been white tams in the past but very few from what I have heard
Most breeders has Blustags original stock because Lynn was one of the only breeders (she bashed one until they quit and the other stopped because her dogs ended up in a puppy mill). Purchasers were also not aware of all the cover-ups like hip scores, different parents, father to daughter breedings, repeat breedings, and unapproved outcrosses. You'll notice now that no reputable breeders have purchased a Blustag / Blufawn / Poachers farm / Sugulba (whatever you want to call them) puppy since finding out these issues :)
Out of interest who were the other original breeders?
Also how do you decide whether your dog has true breeding once it has come from Lynn? I assume the other tests which can be done at a vets would show health and fitness to breed?
Also with the outcrosses.. how do you decide whether it is appropriate or not and how it will improve the breed, I understand due to the new nature of the breed itself you need to expand the gene pool otherwise you'd end up with a breed which was very problematic health wise.

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:55 pm

Moonstone, Alba, and Blustag. My dog didn't come from Lynn, I refused to buy from her when she offered to change a puppy's birthday for me to pay less for a kennel. For breeding dogs should have DM, MyDogDNA, Hips, Elbows, and Eyes done IMHO :)

Outcrosses are decided by the TDR committee.
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:59 pm

Can you register a post-2012 Blustag dog as Tamaskan with the TDR if they pass all the health tests? Or could they be registered as an outcross? Just out of curiosity because of what Kitsune said above

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:20 am

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Tana » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:33 am

rosemont wrote:Can you register a post-2012 Blustag dog
Disney litter from 2012 (Jodie/Jackal) is then registered?

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Vajente » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:02 pm

Tana wrote:
rosemont wrote:Can you register a post-2012 Blustag dog
Disney litter from 2012 (Jodie/Jackal) is then registered?
The last registered litter of the blu's was in march 2012

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by nivenj » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:43 am

My honest advice is to do a bit more research. Some of the posts on here are being economical with the truth. Some of the "registered" breeders as accepted by the "Official TDR", and again, do your research here, as the word "official" is as "official" as a self appointed group can be, are barely better than puppy mills. Blustag UK have a bad rep on here. I would strongly recommend Saxon Tamaskan, they have never involved themselves with the politics surrounding this breed and instead concentrate of breeding exceptional Tamaskans (although them may no longer be breeding)
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:23 pm

nivenj wrote:Some of the posts on here are being economical with the truth. Some of the "registered" breeders as accepted by the "Official TDR", and again, do your research here, as the word "official" is as "official" as a self appointed group can be, are barely better than puppy mills.
I'm not sure I understand your post? Are you suggesting that even the breeders on this forum and listed as registered under the official TDR are not necessarily proper breeders either, or are you just confirming that Blustag/Blufawn/Poacher's Farm are no longer part of the official TDR (although they portray themselves as otherwise)?

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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by Katlin » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:38 pm

Saxon Tamaskan, they have never involved themselves with the politics surrounding this breed and instead concentrate of breeding exceptional Tamaskans (although them may no longer be breeding)
Saxon hasn't thad a litter in years, and they had the same combo of puppies several times. Their bloodline is a bit too well represented IMHO.
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by nivenj » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:53 pm

rosemont wrote:
nivenj wrote:Some of the posts on here are being economical with the truth. Some of the "registered" breeders as accepted by the "Official TDR", and again, do your research here, as the word "official" is as "official" as a self appointed group can be, are barely better than puppy mills.
I'm not sure I understand your post? Are you suggesting that even the breeders on this forum and listed as registered under the official TDR are not necessarily proper breeders either, or are you just confirming that Blustag/Blufawn/Poacher's Farm are no longer part of the official TDR (although they portray themselves as otherwise)?
All I'm saying is, don't be lead into a false sense of security by official sounding terms, like Registry, Registered breeders, and Official TDR. Its nothing more than a club at the end of the day. Blustag and Blufawn where ejected from the club, but to be honest, for no more or less reason than some of the existing club breeders. You just need to have a look at the recent history of the Committee, and ask why so many resigned within such a short space of time. Also have a look at some of the existing breeders and see how many pups they are producing a year @ 1000+ Euro a pup and then decide if they are in it for the money or not.

Its unfortunate but these are stunning dogs crippled by an association that put financial gain and ego above the breed.

Just checked and Saxon got Frigga Neutered in August last year, he is now no longer breeding, and It would seem he did so based on some of what I described above.
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Re: Question about breeders (UK)

Post by rosemont » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:02 pm

Thank you for the info. I'm not placing too much emphasis on the labels, I just know that any breeder registered with the TDR (club or not) has to have proof of health testing, which as far as has been said is something that I won't get from Blustag, who are still breeding from dogs like Bodie who supposedly passes on bad hips etc. I just want a healthy pup at the end of the day.

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