Golden Litter Discussion

All topics pertaining to the temperament / character of the Tamaskan Dog.
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Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Wed May 16, 2012 10:02 pm

I wanted to open this topic to all Golden Litter puppy owners. I have a beautiful little girl from this litter in rescue (Blustag Golden Rainbow). It was reported that she was not at all appropriate with the kiddos in the house and acted "feral" from day one.

The surrendering family tried so hard, but just got overwhelmed! I was happy to step in and help take "Nixi" into rescue and foster her in my own personal home.

I wish I would have started this discussion a week ago. Nixi, going from a dog that turned into our Bullwinkle (an NGSD, very shy and standoffish) the first night has blossumed into a pup that, yeah, has reservations about men and unknown dogs but is super treat motivated, affectionate, turns to me and my hubbie for comfort, is getting along sooo well with all three of the other dogs here... she is aloof, as all of our Northern breeds are, and just is a neat little girl!. She quickly showed me that she had "sit", "stay", and "down" and goes daily to the feed store, with every visit getting more and more comfortable. Interesting, even remembers folks she met on prior visits.

I will not take her to the open dog park as I know she needs formal introductions to dogs (leash walks side by side) to feel comfortable....

She's a wonderful pup! But will need a forever home who can work with and not take offense to her aloofness and adversity to new men and dogs ;)

Sweet pic taken today of Nixi....
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Jen » Wed May 16, 2012 10:29 pm

What a beautiful puppy :) I hope she continues to do as well as she has been.Well done for your work with this little cutie and i hope she finds a great home when she is ready :D

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by juice » Wed May 16, 2012 10:31 pm

so cute. such a shame she is in rescue but i am sure you will do your utmost to get her the right forever family. shame i am in uk as i would have had her. good luck :D

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by susann » Wed May 16, 2012 10:35 pm

Sweet sweet girl.. :D

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by iamnic » Wed May 16, 2012 10:43 pm

She really is Naima's twin! Michifloo, I've PM'd you.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by KRHert » Wed May 16, 2012 10:53 pm

I'm happy to hear that Nixi is doing better and becoming more social. Since Tika did so well this past weekend at the doggie carnival we took her to, we are looking to take her to the dog park in the next few weeks. I'm planning on keeping her on the leash just to see how she is and if she looks like she's comfortable I may let her off.
I hope Nixi finds her new home soon.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Wed May 16, 2012 11:24 pm

Try to find a time of day when there are very few folks at the park! I found that if there are too many people and dogs running around that the excitement gets too much to handle for both ;) And, then, of course talk to the other people there and let them know that your little bundle is new to the park and not accustomed to all of the attention (of which Tika will get!)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by KRHert » Wed May 16, 2012 11:28 pm

Ya, I was thinking we'd start by going during a week day, it's much less busy then.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Blustag » Thu May 17, 2012 12:00 am

Nixi is in the best possible hands and I have every faith that she will be rehomed very soon with a suitalbe loving family where she
will be happy :D

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Thu May 17, 2012 1:32 am

Thank you, Blustag! Not sure I deserve that, but I do appreciate it! I have posted some vids of Nixi on YouTube... my handle is michiftamaskan
Should be pretty easy to find ;)

A couple more pics of little Nixi...
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Booma » Thu May 17, 2012 2:17 am

I'm sure you will find her a fantastic new home (if not fall in love with her and keep her)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Thu May 17, 2012 2:44 am

Just one more pic tonight! I promise!!! Nixi resting in her preferred crate.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Thu May 17, 2012 2:47 am

Kylievr wrote:I'm sure you will find her a fantastic new home (if not fall in love with her and keep her)
Oh, if I kept all of the rescue dogs I fell in love with I would be a hoarder :)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TParham86 » Thu May 17, 2012 4:41 am

It's so nice that you took her in :P I hope the sweet girl finds a permanent home.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu May 17, 2012 5:00 am

You know you can't post enough photos ;)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by shurr » Thu May 17, 2012 5:06 am

It looks like she is doing good in her new temporary home. I'm very glad to hear that :D

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Thu May 17, 2012 12:30 pm

Yeah, she's turing out to be quite the adaptable pup! I as far as I am concerned, if a dog can figure out Bullwinkle, it can figure out just about anything ;)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Blustag » Thu May 17, 2012 1:33 pm

There dosnt look to be anything wrong with her at all going by the photos and now she is with you and she dosnt have a heart murmour I am over the moon. :D Just goes to show in the right hands how they can be ;) Well done you :lol:

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Katlin » Thu May 17, 2012 3:12 pm

Blustag wrote:There dosnt look to be anything wrong with her at all going by the photos and now she is with you and she dosnt have a heart murmour I am over the moon. :D Just goes to show in the right hands how they can be ;) Well done you :lol:
Well as much as I think Denise is doing a good job I don't think that statement is fair. Sally did her best :? :|
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Blustag » Thu May 17, 2012 3:40 pm

I was NOT pointing fingers I was generalising. :roll: There has been much talk lately about young puppies and problems and this
can arise in any breed. But of course it still goes to show that in the right hands just how puppies can be.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Thu May 17, 2012 3:41 pm

I do have to agree with Katlin. I have become very close to the family in Calgery and I assure everyone that they did their honest best! The heart murmur issue needs to be looked into more... I have docs from the surrendering family that state that their Vet noted a stage 2 or 3 murmur...but when I took her to our Vet, he didn't pick up on it... that does not mean its not there, just needs more investigation. A stage 1 or 2 murmur caught in puppies generally resolves itself by 20 - 24 weeks, a benign murmur. A stage 3 - 6 may very well be something the owners need to be aware of, but the lower the stage, the less likely its life altering. Murmurs can and do crop up in dogs at any point in their lives. I am hopeful that even IF Nixi has a murmur, that it is mild and she can live a happy, healthy life w/o the adoptive family having to worry ;)

By and large, and I have expressed this to the surrendering family, that I do think Nixi needed some other outlets for her energy ;) a few well rounded adult dogs here have provided just that ;) they have given her the correction she so desperatly needed and doesn't even bother mouthing the people in the house ;) She's great pup, just not a good match for the family in Calgery......
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Thu May 17, 2012 3:56 pm

I posted three new vids of Nixi on YouTube ;) One is of her trying sooooo hard to wake that crazy Bull up to play ( if you know what Bull is, you'll super appreciate it! If not, you might be a little worried about how snarky Bull gets at the end ;) Bull is one of the Primitive Breeds of Dog... an NGSD, prob the oldest breed of dog known to exist) Nixi takes him in stride and just keeps at it, HA!!! , the next vid is of him giving into her, and one of her trying to appease to Loo-Loo... this last one is very touching, watch the doggie language.... Loo gives her some "love nibbles' close to the end...







I am so happy to say that Nixi did not react at all to our 16 y/o son this morning (she had been barking incessantly at him, even trying to herd the kiddo) but today, she went right up to him, sat down, as he was opening up the fridge, waiting for a morsel! I just think thats fabulous! She can get over fears given the right approach and given some time... nothing should be forced, only encouraged ;)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by KRHert » Thu May 17, 2012 6:05 pm

Thanks for the videos! I have to agree too about how other dogs can really make a difference with some of these puppies. I think without our Lab and our large back yard for Tika to expend some of her energy she would drive us nuts in the house. She just has so much energy, she wears out our 2 year old Lab all the time lol. Don't get me wrong we take her out and go for walks but that just isn't enough for her. I'm glad Nixi is thriving in her current environment, sometimes other dogs can really help out.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Blustag » Thu May 17, 2012 7:31 pm

Great videos she looks very happy :D

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Nino » Thu May 17, 2012 9:08 pm

Sølve - Golden litters older half sister - is much less stressful when being around other dogs too..
I totally get that behaviour.. she have had her problems with men too..

I'm sure that Sally and her family did all they could, sometimes the pup and the home just isn't the right fit, and that's only something you find out when they are there..
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Gabriele58 » Thu May 17, 2012 10:00 pm

Thank you for posting the videos. I wish Loki had a larger dog to play with as well, but he's getting better at knowing my little Bella's limits, with some help from mom and dad :D . I know that Sally and her family did their best with Nixi and they were heart-broken in having to let her go. It wasn't an easy decision for her and her family to make, but they did have to consider their young children. I'm glad that Nixi has found a good home to be "trained" properly and has some good adult dog examples.

It's nice seeing photos of the pups from this litter. It's amazing how they run from as light in colouring as Winter to the darker colours in Loki and Tika. I'm a little biased since I own one of these pups, but I think they're all beautiful in their individual ways.

I'm sure that Sally would be very pleased with Nixi's progress and will want her to have a wonderful home where she and her owners are a good fit.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Fri May 18, 2012 3:09 am

KRHert wrote:Thanks for the videos! I have to agree too about how other dogs can really make a difference with some of these puppies. I think without our Lab and our large back yard for Tika to expend some of her energy she would drive us nuts in the house. She just has so much energy, she wears out our 2 year old Lab all the time lol. Don't get me wrong we take her out and go for walks but that just isn't enough for her. I'm glad Nixi is thriving in her current environment, sometimes other dogs can really help out.
HA!! I've seen Nixi go from one dog to the next to the next, wearing each out as she goes ;) What a scamp!!!
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Fri May 18, 2012 10:56 pm

Little miss Nixi went in for her spay today.... she's out of surgery and recovering for a couple hours before I pick her up. What a champ! HA! We'll see how well she likes an e-collar ;)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Blustag » Fri May 18, 2012 11:03 pm

Good luck with that :lol:

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by wicca1 » Fri May 18, 2012 11:47 pm

beautiful baby, hope she finds a new home soon :D

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Sat May 19, 2012 3:45 am

I gave Nixi the large crate tonight to rest after surgery. By and large, she is is tired but has taken some water and a little food.... OH, poor Bull! He is laying outside the crate, wanting to be with his friend.... the e-collar is going to go fine, she looks so pathetic, but a nec evil! I am not accusomed to recovering spays at such an early age, it'll end up being quite the trip! But for tonight, she is well medicated and should sleep ;)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sat May 19, 2012 4:00 am

Aw, I think they try their best to look pathetic while wearing those e-collars. I hope poor Bull does not get his heart broken when someone adopts her ;)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by nivenj » Sat May 19, 2012 7:56 am

I'm confused :-S. How old is Nixi?
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Sylvaen » Sat May 19, 2012 8:52 am

Can I ask why such a young, purebred female Tamaskan Dog (with pedigree & registration papers) was spayed? Surely the US needs MORE breeding dogs (not less)?? I can understand that IF she still had a serious heart murmur then she shouldn't be used for breeding (but I thought the vet gave her the 'all clear'?) and I can understand spaying rescue dogs from UNKNOWN bloodlines but this just seems completely excessive - especially for such a young puppy to go through such a major surgery. Was there a real medical necessity / emergency for her to be done NOW? :shock:
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Sat May 19, 2012 9:24 am

She's 16 weeks old. I know it's not uncommon in the US to spay such young dogs but come on, give them some time to grow! They haven't gotten those hormones for nothing... :(

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Katlin » Sat May 19, 2012 10:08 am

So disappointed she was spayed :shock:
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by MelB » Sat May 19, 2012 10:23 am

Also very surprised she's been spayed so young. I thought it was advisable to wait until they have had their 1st season AT LEAST to allow hormones to settle and the dog to mature properly????

Poor little girl, just settling in to a new, but temporary, home and and recovering from major surgery in the space of a week? My heart breaks for her with all this upheaval.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Sat May 19, 2012 10:57 am

Sylvaen wrote:Can I ask why such a young, purebred female Tamaskan Dog (with pedigree & registration papers) was spayed? Surely the US needs MORE breeding dogs (not less)?? I can understand that IF she still had a serious heart murmur then she shouldn't be used for breeding (but I thought the vet gave her the 'all clear'?) and I can understand spaying rescue dogs from UNKNOWN bloodlines but this just seems completely excessive - especially for such a young puppy to go through such a major surgery. Was there a real medical necessity / emergency for her to be done NOW? :shock:

Well, as surprising as it was for her to be spayed so young, and lets say the heart murmer was nothing... Considering the temperaments of the whole litter, would it have been wise to leave her open for breeding? The usa is short of breeding dogs yes, but i thought breeding for temperament was paramount? :?
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Sylvaen » Sat May 19, 2012 11:27 am

TerriHolt wrote:
Sylvaen wrote:Can I ask why such a young, purebred female Tamaskan Dog (with pedigree & registration papers) was spayed? Surely the US needs MORE breeding dogs (not less)?? I can understand that IF she still had a serious heart murmur then she shouldn't be used for breeding (but I thought the vet gave her the 'all clear'?) and I can understand spaying rescue dogs from UNKNOWN bloodlines but this just seems completely excessive - especially for such a young puppy to go through such a major surgery. Was there a real medical necessity / emergency for her to be done NOW? :shock:

Well, as surprising as it was for her to be spayed so young, and lets say the heart murmer was nothing... Considering the temperaments of the whole litter, would it have been wise to leave her open for breeding? The usa is short of breeding dogs yes, but i thought breeding for temperament was paramount? :?
She's young and has been through a lot... who's to say that she won't develop into the most chilled out, friendly adult Tamaskan? It's very difficult to judge puppies at such a young age and to say that they are naturally 'aggressive' or fearful (due to their genes) - how much of it is down to nurture? maybe if they'd been socialized younger, etc... bearing in mind that most puppies go through a 'fear period' from 12-16 weeks old, and Denise's update that Nixi is coming along in leaps and bounds, it seems a little bit hasty to disregard that entire litter as being completely unsuitable for breeding. It seems that only some of the owners of puppies from that litter are having issues - are their pups just more 'difficult' than the others? or is it the owners' perceptions that are influencing their pups' behavior (actively LOOKING for 'wolf content' and treating the puppies differently as a result, even if it's just subliminal)... it seems there are a lot of aspects that need to be fully considered before passing definitive judgment.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Sat May 19, 2012 11:57 am

Sylvaen wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:
Sylvaen wrote:Can I ask why such a young, purebred female Tamaskan Dog (with pedigree & registration papers) was spayed? Surely the US needs MORE breeding dogs (not less)?? I can understand that IF she still had a serious heart murmur then she shouldn't be used for breeding (but I thought the vet gave her the 'all clear'?) and I can understand spaying rescue dogs from UNKNOWN bloodlines but this just seems completely excessive - especially for such a young puppy to go through such a major surgery. Was there a real medical necessity / emergency for her to be done NOW? :shock:

Well, as surprising as it was for her to be spayed so young, and lets say the heart murmer was nothing... Considering the temperaments of the whole litter, would it have been wise to leave her open for breeding? The usa is short of breeding dogs yes, but i thought breeding for temperament was paramount? :?
She's young and has been through a lot... who's to say that she won't develop into the most chilled out, friendly adult Tamaskan? It's very difficult to judge puppies at such a young age and to say that they are naturally 'aggressive' or fearful (due to their genes) - how much of it is down to nurture? maybe if they'd been socialized younger, etc... bearing in mind that most puppies go through a 'fear period' from 12-16 weeks old, and Denise's update that Nixi is coming along in leaps and bounds, it seems a little bit hasty to disregard that entire litter as being completely unsuitable for breeding. It seems that only some of the owners of puppies from that litter are having issues - are their pups just more 'difficult' than the others? or is it the owners' perceptions that are influencing their pups' behavior (actively LOOKING for 'wolf content' and treating the puppies differently as a result, even if it's just subliminal)... it seems there are a lot of aspects that need to be fully considered before passing definitive judgment.
The owners are looking for wolf content? :shock:

Well, i'm no breeder and you guys obviously think it's worth the risk just because no one wants to use out crosses... It's just bizarre that so many pups have had the same problem... And it's the only litter i found to be difficult, apologies if i missed some (unless there are others and it's just not been made public like a lot of other stuff)... Lynn said she socialized them young enough. They went to different environments, different owners... If their life style was very similar then environment and owners could be taken into account... The offspring of these pups would have to be carefully placed into homes and that still takes away from the "fantastic" temperament of the breed...

If only the breed could be made up of Sam's, Saga's, Rhea's and Sophie's (and all the other great dogs there are)... Then it would be awesome! :D
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by AZDehlin » Sat May 19, 2012 11:59 am

Even if North America is short on breeding dogs there are two puppies from this same litter ( one in Canada, one in USA) that are in homes that are interested in breeding. I am sure there is a good reason Denise had her spayed young. What is done is done, now just gotta hope for a speedy recovery.

Rahne

Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Sat May 19, 2012 12:21 pm

I'm getting annoyed that certain people keep saying that these pups are all fine, just normal pups, and that the owners aren't experienced enough or are treating the pups in the wrong way etc! Tamaskan dogs are advertised as 'easy' dogs, suitable for everyone! All the pups I've met so far were very outgoing, happy to meet with other people and dogs.

Winter is NOT, he doesn't want people to pet him and sometimes he will growl and bark to people. When he sees other dogs he will growl, bark and sometimes even snap at the other dogs. He was like that from day ONE that I got him so tell me again it is all my fault he is behaving fearfull with other people and dogs! :roll:

On the topic of breeding.. I do agree that it would be too early to say that the WHOLE litter should be excluded for breeding. It is difficult to say that the problems with other people/dogs, that some pups are having, are caused mostly by genetics or not enough socialization (by the breeder).

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by AZDehlin » Sat May 19, 2012 12:28 pm

Rahne wrote: On the topic of breeding.. I do agree that it would be too early to say that the WHOLE litter should be excluded for breeding. It is difficult to say that the problems with other people/dogs, that some pups are having, are caused mostly by genetics or not enough socialization (by the breeder).
I agree it is to early to decide whether this litter will be good to breed, I also wonder with several of the dogs from this litter having minor heart murmurs... couldn't these get worse if bred back on later?

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by happtcat314 » Sat May 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Ive been following this thread with great interests...just from the information it seems like alot of owners are unhappy with the Golden Litter. My only experience is working at a wildlife sanctuary and through the years have aknowledged that very intelligent breeds of canines can pick up on the negative 'vibes' within their environment and it can make them tense and frustrated as well with the whole situation. All animals want to live in a positive environment. :)

Im sure what i am saying may upset people on this forum but i am on this forum because i loved the
closed community of being able to express opinions, raise concerns and educate
Onself about this beautiful breed.

If what i have said has offended anyone then please disregard my post:)

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Sat May 19, 2012 1:02 pm

As Nixi is in rescue, per our guidelines, all dogs get altered before being adopted out, period. whether they are 8 weeks or 10 years of age. Its a different world out here in the USA. You folks may not agree or understand, but thats ok, I am not one to go on and on to justify what is the right thing to do, in Nixi's case or any other dog's case.

She is doing well this morning. Eating a little and drinking well, takes her meds pretty easy, but has some anxiety in the larger crate, just too open. Will have her back in her smaller, plastic one later today.

Oh, I wish I lived closer to all of the Golden Litter's families so I could hands on help... Rahne, have you had Winter's thyroid checked?

You may also want to look into DAP (I think its avail over there) Its a natural calming remedy for dogs.

http://www.entirelypets.com/dapdog.html ... QAod4Xi5sQ

I use this product with many rescue dogs....might be worth a try. There has also been some sucsess with using prozac on dogs like Winter....

http://www.vetinfo.com/canine-behavior-prozac.html#b

OH, one other product that might be worth looking into is Harmonease

http://www.harmoneasevet.com/harmonease.htm

These are just tools and not the answer. If for nothing else, they might calm dogs down (like Winter and the other higher strung Golden Litter pups) enough to actually figure out that the world is OK and not such a scary place....
"I like my dogs more than most people"

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by happtcat314 » Sat May 19, 2012 1:07 pm

Michifloo~

i agree with you (not that i have much weight within this
Forum) but you're correct...the USA is stringent on fixing pets. And if its best for Nixi
Then thats whats important:)

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by KRHert » Sat May 19, 2012 5:55 pm

I know there are a lot of opinions about the the Golden litter. As someone who has aspirations of breeding in the future (given good hips, etc) I think it is a bit early to talk about whether this litter should be bred from or not. As they are only 4 months old, they still have a lot of growing up to do. Some of the owners are having more issues with their pups than others and I think for now we should just be focusing on making our puppies into the best dogs they can be (which I know we are all dedicated to doing). We can discuss the breeding topic again once they're older and it should probably be done on an individual basis. Who these dogs are bred to should probably be considered carefully (as with most breedings) but that isn't something we need to worry about for at least another 2 years.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Booma » Sat May 19, 2012 6:00 pm

KRHert wrote:I know there are a lot of opinions about the the Golden litter. As someone who has aspirations of breeding in the future (given good hips, etc) I think it is a bit early to talk about whether this litter should be bred from or not. As they are only 4 months old, they still have a lot of growing up to do. Some of the owners are having more issues with their pups than others and I think for now we should just be focusing on making our puppies into the best dogs they can be (which I know we are all dedicated to doing). We can discuss the breeding topic again once they're older and it should probably be done on an individual basis. Who these dogs are bred to should probably be considered carefully (as with most breedings) but that isn't something we need to worry about for at least another 2 years.

Well said.
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Rahne

Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Sat May 19, 2012 6:16 pm

happtcat314 wrote:Michifloo~
i agree with you (not that i have much weight within this
Forum) but you're correct...the USA is stringent on fixing pets. And if its best for Nixi
Then thats whats important:)
9 out of 10 times neutering isn't what's best for the dogs.. but for what's best for the people. Owners that don't want to deal with 'natural' dog behavior like marking, humping or seasons etc. Owners that don't want to bother taking the responsibility of preventing accidental matings or owners that don't want to bother training their dogs.

That's the reason why most rescues neuter all dogs, to prevent that those irresponsible people make the problem even bigger. I'm not against neutering by rescues, it's more the young age that bothers me. Also I do agree with Debby somewhat, that it's a shame that even pure TDR registered Tamaskan that could become valuable breeding dogs are also neutered. Why is that necessary?

Rahne

Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Sat May 19, 2012 6:17 pm

Kylievr wrote:
KRHert wrote:I know there are a lot of opinions about the the Golden litter. As someone who has aspirations of breeding in the future (given good hips, etc) I think it is a bit early to talk about whether this litter should be bred from or not. As they are only 4 months old, they still have a lot of growing up to do. Some of the owners are having more issues with their pups than others and I think for now we should just be focusing on making our puppies into the best dogs they can be (which I know we are all dedicated to doing). We can discuss the breeding topic again once they're older and it should probably be done on an individual basis. Who these dogs are bred to should probably be considered carefully (as with most breedings) but that isn't something we need to worry about for at least another 2 years.

Well said.
2nd this.

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