Golden Litter Discussion

All topics pertaining to the temperament / character of the Tamaskan Dog.
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happtcat314
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by happtcat314 » Sat May 19, 2012 6:27 pm

Rahne wrote:
happtcat314 wrote:Michifloo~
i agree with you (not that i have much weight within this
Forum) but you're correct...the USA is stringent on fixing pets. And if its best for Nixi
Then thats whats important:)
9 out of 10 times neutering isn't what's best for the dogs.. but for what's best for the people. Owners that don't want to deal with 'natural' dog behavior like marking, humping or seasons etc. Owners that don't want to bother taking the responsibility of preventing accidental matings or owners that don't want to bother training their dogs.

That's the reason why most rescues neuter all dogs, to prevent that those irresponsible people make the problem even bigger. I'm not against neutering by rescues, it's more the young age that bothers me. Also I do agree with Debby somewhat, that it's a shame that even pure TDR registered Tamaskan that could become valuable breeding dogs are also neutered. Why is that necessary?
I am not saying whats best for 9 out of 10 owners or statistics. I am referring to Michi's decision and as quoted "irresponsible people" I agree thats its a shame that this has happened to a TDR Tam. But IMO I agree with Michi and am not stirring the pot on the wider topic of 'altering' TDR Tams in general.

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Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Jen » Sat May 19, 2012 10:43 pm

I really do hope that no real temperament problems begin to creep into this wonderful breed. I think above all else breeders really must put a good steady confident nature and trustworthy charictar top of their list when picking breeding dogs. Yes hips , eyes , DM and looks are important but if a dog cant live as a part of a normal family and lead a happy life then what do they matter.

We must acknowledge that there is some reservedness and lack of confidence in SOME tams which is not ideal but not totally suprising considering the arctic dog content but bad temperaments must be addressed straight away as i have personally never heard of or experienced any problems in this way before.

I really hope this beautiful litters problems are resolved and that maybe some lessons are learned from this experince.

My Sashy really is the most gentle sweet girl with us , the children and all her doggy friends and if you just gave her a bit more confidence she would have the perfect nature for a tam and this is what breeders should be aiming for in my opinion.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Gaby » Sun May 20, 2012 1:15 pm

Rahne wrote:Maybe the owners could tell which of the pups are outgoing and VERY friendly with strange dogs and people? Which pups actually LIKE to be petted by strangers and don't back away? I think there is only ONE out of 7. Some are improving a lot lately which is great :)
That is very nice to hear and indicates that it will probably get a lot better in the future if they already improve after a few weeks training. ;) And I would like to hear what the owners say about behaviour against strange dogs and people. I hope they can help to pinpoint what exactly the problems are with this litter. And what are nice traits in the dogs and how fast they learn. And if it's blown out of proportion or not. ;) If they still want to do that, because I can understand they are being intimidated with the posts they read. But these things are very important to know to help improving the breed. ;)

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by KRHert » Sun May 20, 2012 1:56 pm

Gaby, to address what you've asked about. Tika has been become increasingly more social towards people and dogs. Last week we took her to a "dog carnival" at the local park where there were hundreds of dogs everywhere (all on leashes). She was very social and outgoing with the other dogs. She would greet any dog and gave them submissive "kisses" which I thought was good. On walks however, when we pass a dog she still gets her hackles up (the whole back and tail) and sometimes growls and she pulls with everything she has to get near them. Unfortunately most owners get nervous about this but we at least try to have her sit and calm down before moving on. I don't think she wants to harm the dogs but it does make other owners nervous because she looks so aggressive when she does that.
My father came to visit last night and she went right up to him along with my Lab to greet him when he showed up. She was very social which I was happy to see. She will let you pet her and touch her anywhere, which is great but I wouldn't say she's as social as a Labrador. She's let you pet her and everything but I don't think she enjoys it quite as much as some other dogs. We love her though and she is a great dog but she can be a bit standoffish when she wants to be.
I would like to say to that it would be nice to know what kind of dogs she has in her lineage. It's not that I suspect foul play I'm just curious. I feel like when people ask I'm just guessing by throwing out northern breeds that may or may not have been used. I was hoping that the breeds of the dogs would have been included on her pedigree when we got her but they weren't. Maybe this is something that we could add in the future. I understand the fear of other people getting ahold of the information and "copying" the breedings but I think it is important for owners and breeders of the Tams to know what is behind their dogs. Just a suggestion. It's only a few generations back so the breeds should be know. Just a thought.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Gaby » Sun May 20, 2012 2:15 pm

@ KRHert, Nice to hear that she is improving! How is her behaviour when somebody she doesn't know comes into your house? And what does she do when a stranger wants to pet her when you are taking her out?

I believe you have red my other posts about what you could do if your dog isn't feeling comfortable around strange dogs when you are walking with her. I hope these tips will help you adressing the issues she had. I think you are already doing a lot of good work with taking her to all kinds of places and letting her calm down when she is stressed. Are you going to a dog school with her? It could help quite a lot with socialization with other puppies and dogs.

I understand your posting about lineage, I would really like to know that too, I have no idea with my own dog. But I didn't ask for that too, I have to say. I know there are a lot of racing huskies involved, but that's all. It would be nice to know what kind of breeds are in a puppy to adjust the training methods to each individual puppy.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by michifloo » Sun May 20, 2012 3:40 pm

Rahne wrote:
happtcat314 wrote:Michifloo~
i agree with you (not that i have much weight within this
Forum) but you're correct...the USA is stringent on fixing pets. And if its best for Nixi
Then thats whats important:)
9 out of 10 times neutering isn't what's best for the dogs.. but for what's best for the people. Owners that don't want to deal with 'natural' dog behavior like marking, humping or seasons etc. Owners that don't want to bother taking the responsibility of preventing accidental matings or owners that don't want to bother training their dogs.

That's the reason why most rescues neuter all dogs, to prevent that those irresponsible people make the problem even bigger. I'm not against neutering by rescues, it's more the young age that bothers me. Also I do agree with Debby somewhat, that it's a shame that even pure TDR registered Tamaskan that could become valuable breeding dogs are also neutered. Why is that necessary?
This is a good insite, Rahne! The other aspect of altering rescues is that we, as rescue orgs, don't want to see "accidental" litters down the road, perhaps putting more animals in the system. Once a dog is adopted out, esp over state lines, even with a spay/nueter contract, its very hard to enforce....people put off the expense of spaying or nueterng..can run sometimes well over $200 (about 400 pounds) ....

There is one registered Tamaskan Dog on the West Coast here in the US (not one of my rescues) who got out, and subsiquently got impregnated by a neighbor Labrador... the Tam's owners is wonderful, but now he has to contend with this mixed breed litter... there are 2 pups, as I recall, that have very Tam markings but their ears will forever be floppy.... even the best, well intentioned owners make mistakes....

I know, for a fact, that the surrendering owners approve of Nixi getting altered before going to her "forever" home. I also can say that Lynn was well aware that the girlie was going to get spayed while in rescue, and was, at least, OK with it....



Nixi will not suffer due to the early spay.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Misaya » Sun May 20, 2012 9:54 pm

I havent really been on the forum a great deal recently, so am coming into this discussion a bit late but have a few comments to make. So in no particular order:

Denise - I would support your decision to spay Nixi. I believe it is most rescues' practice to neuter animals before they are rehomed. You have given your reasons and I agree. With the best will in the world, you dont know where these animals will eventually end up.

Gaby - I have met the parents of the Golden litter. I had Heidi handed to me straight out of Lynn's van on the Friday night before the show and walked her later at night and she was as good as gold and perfectly friendly. I've met Bodie in his run and he came straight over and licked my hand. I must admit I didnt pay much attention to either him or JJ on the day of the show, but then I was busy with helping run things. I have also met Jodie a number of times and have petted her and she was perfectly happy.

Rahne - what are you feeding Winter? I ask because we had a lot of bother with Ayasca when we first got him in that he was totally hyper and was a persistent biter. My arms were covered in bruises and he kept ripping my clothes. I eventually noticed that he was at his worst just after a meal. He was eating Beta large puppy, which was what he came with at that point. After I changed him to a hyperallergenic food (James Wellbeloved) he became much calmer. And now we feed raw. Just a thought :)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Sun May 20, 2012 10:07 pm

Misaya wrote: Rahne - what are you feeding Winter? I ask because we had a lot of bother with Ayasca when we first got him in that he was totally hyper and was a persistent biter. My arms were covered in bruises and he kept ripping my clothes. I eventually noticed that he was at his worst just after a meal. He was eating Beta large puppy, which was what he came with at that point. After I changed him to a hyperallergenic food (James Wellbeloved) he became much calmer. And now we feed raw. Just a thought :)
Winter isn't really hyper or very nippy, at least not out of the unusual for a pup. I feed my dogs raw and for practical reasons (mostly on traveling) they get kibble. Thanks for the tip though :)

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Thu May 24, 2012 4:42 pm

Update on Winter:

He is going a bit 'up and down' at the moment. Two days ago he met the 'newspaper lady' who he didn't really like.. he started to bark and growl at her and when I told her to offer him some treats he hesitantly took the treats from her. Today he met her again and this time no growling and barking anymore and when she offered him treats again he took it without any problems. She could even scratch his muzzle a bit :)

Today we also had a 'stranger' in the house. Normally this isn't a problem BUT my boyfriend opened the door without Konah noticing it so suddenly there was a 'stranger' in the living room, PANIC! IF this happens then Konah starts barking at the 'stranger' because I didn't let him in so who knows if it is a good person or not :lol: Of course Winter took over Konah her 'feelings' and also started to bark.. I then took Winter to the hallway and put him there for a moment until Konah calmed down. When she did I got Winter and lured him to the 'strange' person with some treats. He took them eagerly so I then let the 'strange' person offer him some treats and after that he was totally fine again and continued nibbling on his bone without being bothered by the 'stranger' sitting in out living room.

And yesterday we met with a 'strange' male dog. My girls started to play with him and I had Winter on the leash but he got really excited and wanted to go to the dog. I waited for a bit until the most excitement was gone and then let him go as he didn't seem really 'uncomfortable' but more happy excited (first time I let him go to an off leash strange dog). It went well and he did join in the play until after a while he got rough with the 'strange' dog and started to jump on him, growling and raising his hackles. I then broke up the play and continued the walk.

When Winter sees 'strange' dogs on the leash he will hang in the leash, raise his hackles, growl and bark (it looks really aggressive). I now distract him with some chicken, let him sit down and wait until the other dog has passed. He then gets the chicken, good boy, and we continue the walk. If I know the dogs and I know they are friendly I will sometimes walk behind them with Winter for a while, until he calms down, and then I let him meet with the other dog.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Thu May 24, 2012 5:10 pm

Yay... sounds like great progress you guys are making :D .
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The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Tiantai » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:18 am

Rahne wrote:Update on Winter:

He is going a bit 'up and down' at the moment. Two days ago he met the 'newspaper lady' who he didn't really like.. he started to bark and growl at her and when I told her to offer him some treats he hesitantly took the treats from her. Today he met her again and this time no growling and barking anymore and when she offered him treats again he took it without any problems. She could even scratch his muzzle a bit :)

Today we also had a 'stranger' in the house. Normally this isn't a problem BUT my boyfriend opened the door without Konah noticing it so suddenly there was a 'stranger' in the living room, PANIC! IF this happens then Konah starts barking at the 'stranger' because I didn't let him in so who knows if it is a good person or not :lol: Of course Winter took over Konah her 'feelings' and also started to bark.. I then took Winter to the hallway and put him there for a moment until Konah calmed down. When she did I got Winter and lured him to the 'strange' person with some treats. He took them eagerly so I then let the 'strange' person offer him some treats and after that he was totally fine again and continued nibbling on his bone without being bothered by the 'stranger' sitting in out living room.

And yesterday we met with a 'strange' male dog. My girls started to play with him and I had Winter on the leash but he got really excited and wanted to go to the dog. I waited for a bit until the most excitement was gone and then let him go as he didn't seem really 'uncomfortable' but more happy excited (first time I let him go to an off leash strange dog). It went well and he did join in the play until after a while he got rough with the 'strange' dog and started to jump on him, growling and raising his hackles. I then broke up the play and continued the walk.

When Winter sees 'strange' dogs on the leash he will hang in the leash, raise his hackles, growl and bark (it looks really aggressive). I now distract him with some chicken, let him sit down and wait until the other dog has passed. He then gets the chicken, good boy, and we continue the walk. If I know the dogs and I know they are friendly I will sometimes walk behind them with Winter for a while, until he calms down, and then I let him meet with the other dog.
In a way, this strategy sounds pretty similar to that of Sophia Yin's advice about calmly encouraging the dog though I don't remember exactly which episode that was on. Glad to see you've improved with the passage of time. :) How is Winter now?
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:10 pm

Rahne wrote:Update on Winter:
When Winter sees 'strange' dogs on the leash he will hang in the leash, raise his hackles, growl and bark (it looks really aggressive). I now distract him with some chicken, let him sit down and wait until the other dog has passed. He then gets the chicken, good boy, and we continue the walk. If I know the dogs and I know they are friendly I will sometimes walk behind them with Winter for a while, until he calms down, and then I let him meet with the other dog.
We asked our dog trainer about leash reactivity. One thing I have never read made complete sense and I will share her advice with you here. I don't know if this will help, Rahne--but perhaps other readers might benefit from this and perhaps other folks have thoughts about the following:

If you walk your dog on a collar of any type, and they pull or lunge, it pulls the head into an upright position. This upright position is interpreted as aggression by the other dog. If you use a Gentle Leader walking harness and the dog pulls it does not pull the head into this position. If you don't have a gentle leader harness and walk your dog with the leash attached to his / her collar you can artificially prevent the head from being lifted by lowering the leash to your knee level. Neat idea. I will try it from now on.

Also, Turid Rugaas' book on Calming Signals

is a fantastic read. You can always encourage your dog to give calming signals: like turning them around and having their butt face the other dog. I've been yawing a lot--and it's working! When we walk by a fence-fighting dog, I call my dogs name in an excited voice. When they look at me I use the clicker (click) and give a very high value treat. Keeping your dogs attention in this situation will help them continue to look to you for guidance in similar situations. Freyja has grown a bit leash-reactive, and this is working for her :)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by arianwenarie » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:17 pm

Hawthorne wrote:We asked our dog trainer about leash reactivity. One thing I have never read made complete sense and I will share her advice with you here. I don't know if this will help, Rahne--but perhaps other readers might benefit from this and perhaps other folks have thoughts about the following:

If you walk your dog on a collar of any type, and they pull or lunge, it pulls the head into an upright position. This upright position is interpreted as aggression by the other dog. If you use a Gentle Leader walking harness and the dog pulls it does not pull the head into this position. If you don't have a gentle leader harness and walk your dog with the leash attached to his / her collar you can artificially prevent the head from being lifted by lowering the leash to your knee level. Neat idea. I will try it from now on.

Also, Turid Rugaas' book on Calming Signals

is a fantastic read. You can always encourage your dog to give calming signals: like turning them around and having their butt face the other dog. I've been yawing a lot--and it's working! When we walk by a fence-fighting dog, I call my dogs name in an excited voice. When they look at me I use the clicker (click) and give a very high value treat. Keeping your dogs attention in this situation will help them continue to look to you for guidance in similar situations. Freyja has grown a bit leash-reactive, and this is working for her :)
I'm not a big fan of Gentle Leaders because if you correct the dog in the wrong way/form, you could actually snap the dog's neck or cause a really bad neck injury. :shock: The theory behind the Gentle Leader/Halti is that you can control a dog's head in the same manner as you would a horse. However, we all know that a dog is not a horse and most definitely does not think like one. ;)

Any type of leash correction should be at a downwards angle..as down low to the ground as possible and across your body (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!). I have only ever done ONE leash correction on my dog, Abby; and that was for lunging and growling at one of my sister's friends in the house. Often times, this type of leash correction isn't necessary and should only be used for true displays of aggression. Even then, you'd need a professional behaviorist to show you how to do it and ensure you know how to do it properly. <-- yep, so that was my disclaimer. lol.

Back on topic, most humans tend to lift up on the leash (even I do when I panic!) to correct because we tense up and try to hold the dog as close to us as possible in an attempt to control the dog. ;) Whenever I walk Abby past small dogs and reactive dogs behind fences, I have the leash threaded under one of her front legs, so when I try to lift up, her head goes down. Hard for me to describe, but hopefully someone will get the picture and give a better explanation than I can. :lol: I can also go into making a human leash reactive...I know I am. XD It's all about tension in the leash...

Yawning is a calming signal, yes. Every time you notice your dog yawn, praise them! If it's a very stressful situation and they do a half-yawn, praise them anyway. They're trying to calm themselves down or if you have a well-balanced dog who is staring at you and then gives you an exaggerated yawn, they're telling YOU to calm down. :D Other calming signals are stress shakes, exaggerated stretching and also lip licking (NOT tongue flicking - if you see a tongue flick that resembles a snake that means trouble!). Sometimes, you'll see a dog start to itch in a stressful situation - that's stress itching. ;)

i also highly recommend the book Hawthorne mentioned - great read and I recommend it to all my pet sitting clients who own dogs.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:28 pm

Nice to know i'm not boring Sam when he yawns at me :lol:

I don't usually use the Halit for correcting... I never have come to think of it... It just seem's easier to walk him with a training lead, one end attached to the Halti and one end attached to the collar... he can't pull as much which means less stress for his neck. If he tries to pull hard in front, he will push into the Halti and realize he can't and after a few attempts, he will give up and walk nicely so i can revert back to more collar usage. I never get that effect with just leash and collar, he will just pull and choke :roll:
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:33 pm

I have never used a gentle leader (or looked into it) since I don't really have problems walking my dogs on leash. They don't pull and aren't leash aggressive either, only my Staffy will lunge forward when another dog is aggressive towards her. Usually I see that coming so I can distract her or let her sit in front of me until the other dog has passed. I hardly ever correct my dogs on the leash, If necessary I call them back with my voice or I stop and walk backwards.

With Winter I still let him sit or follow by holding a treat in front of him and that works fine so far :)

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:14 pm

I meant the gentle leader harness, not head halite. Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I hate the head haltie--didn't work for us. It just wore the fur off of Freyja's face.
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bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:17 pm

Hawthorne wrote:I meant the gentle leader harness, not head halite. Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I hate the head haltie--didn't work for us. It just wore the fur off of Freyja's face.
Ahh ok, well I will look into it. Thanks! :)

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:20 pm

Rahne wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:I meant the gentle leader harness, not head halite. Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I hate the head haltie--didn't work for us. It just wore the fur off of Freyja's face.
Ahh ok, well I will look into it. Thanks! :)
If you do get a Easy Walk Harness, which is what I think Tracy is referring to, then make sure you get the original one that's not padded. A dog can easily slip out of the padded ones because of a design flaw, I think. :)

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by KRHert » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:46 am

We bought one of these (easy walk harness) today for Tika and it works great. She can't pull ahead and if you do have to correct her you aren't doing it to her neck. She seemed to prefer it as well.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by arianwenarie » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:23 am

KRHert wrote:We bought one of these (easy walk harness) today for Tika and it works great. She can't pull ahead and if you do have to correct her you aren't doing it to her neck. She seemed to prefer it as well.
I like the Easy Walk Harness if the dog isn't a hard puller. It moves their entire front portion of their body from their chest. :D Though, for my lab, I am using a chain martingale because she will pull even if I use her regular cloth martingale. lol. (Yes, we finally graduated from using a slip/choke chain!!)

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:09 pm

Some light reading regarding the temperament of bodie not been as nice as Lynn have described him before (if it's not readable, i can make it bigger...)
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:17 pm

Thanks for posting Terri ;)
So now all of the sudden Bodie is a 'real' handful and can be quite dominant to other dogs... That's not what she told me about him, in contrary :roll:

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:19 pm

Rahne wrote:Thanks for posting Terri ;)
So now all of the sudden Bodie is a 'real' handful and can be quite dominant to other dogs... That's not what she told me about him, in contrary :roll:

Not the temperament of Jodie she described either :?
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Katlin » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:13 pm

You sent me this a while back I think. So shocking :(

And btw I see my site bookmarked :) (sorry, had to mention it)
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:02 pm

Holy crap, this is really shocking to me as well considering that she's openly wrote that she was very well pleased with the reactions from the male Jodie pups last month around random people (viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3013&p=55481&hilit=Jodie#p55481) but never did she say anything about their reactions with other dogs. Thanks for exposing this Terri.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by wen » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:17 pm

and remember how she was shocked when I said that Zuul didn't seem to have a good behaviour either (and it was there openly said on her website "she is very very naughty. She has an extremely stubborn personality and won't do anything that she doesn't feel like. She cannot be let off the lead and cannot be left alone in the house. She has a very cheeky attitude to everyone, she reminds me of Marley out of the film Marley and Me. She is so very naughty but she still makes you smile and you can't stay angry with her for long", I was only referring myself to that.
And now, we learn about hunter and other dogs...
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:28 pm

Katlin wrote:You sent me this a while back I think. So shocking :(

And btw I see my site bookmarked :) (sorry, had to mention it)
I was willing to send to anyone who asked but posting it on the forum would have been a waste of time... My posts had a habit of running away...

yeah... bookmarked on tool bar for easy access ;)
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
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The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by wicca1 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:34 am

shocking :(

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Jen » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:53 pm

Wow....every time I check back on here I see something else that shocks and disapoints me about Lynn. Is anything she has ever said been true!!

For gods sake did she really think that she was going to get away with selling puppies to people with totally false descriptions of the temperaments behind them. This is so important in any breed. I get more cross by the day with all this. :evil:

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Tatzel » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:40 pm

I had a feeling she was lying about the temperaments of her dogs when people adressed how shy and aloof some of her dogs seemed in that one Tam-fest video (I think it were Jodie and JJ?)

Also when I asked her about her dogs' temperaments via e-mail I never got a response on that at all.
Here is what I wrote:
"I also wondered about your dog's temperaments, I really wished your website would give a brief description of on each of your dogs. I really love the looks of Jodie, Hunter and Maverick, but I have no idea how their temperaments are. I think I read somewhere on the forums that Dingo is more of a handful than you other dogs, just to give and example."

Generally she gave me the impression like she was not very eager to awnser my questions at all, and she just re-directed me to the forum in an earlier e-mail, which came off as "I can't bother, look for your awnsers on the forum".

I can understand that she probably is busy and maybe she gets mails like mine very often and doesn't get a deal out of most people who e-mail her, but still, I thought it was pretty lame.

This should have set me off already, but since she was the founder, I thought she was the right person to address to - I guess not.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:21 pm

Tatzel wrote: I can understand that she probably is busy and maybe she gets mails like mine very often and doesn't get a deal out of most people who e-mail her, but still, I thought it was pretty lame.

This should have set me off already, but since she was the founder, I thought she was the right person to address to - I guess not.

If that was the case, she could have created a template e-mail to copy and paste that addresses most questions...


I asked to see her dogs at the Tam show in question (last year not this year) and she said she was too busy... so i waited till most had gone and she seemed to be talking more, i went over, she introduced Sam to the judge saying how much she liked him and his colour so i took the opportunity to ask again and she wandered off as if she never heard me...
The thing was, i put my deposit down for a pup from her that day so since i was there, it made sense to see the potential parents to make an informed decision on which bitch i would have liked a pup from... But i guessed not and left... I wish i'd have found out this before i gave her my 'non refundable' deposit... i'd have chose a different breeder who was willing to talk after that...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by BinBin » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:17 am

TerriHolt wrote: I asked to see her dogs at the Tam show in question (last year not this year) and she said she was too busy... so i waited till most had gone and she seemed to be talking more, i went over, she introduced Sam to the judge saying how much she liked him and his colour so i took the opportunity to ask again and she wandered off as if she never heard me...
The thing was, i put my deposit down for a pup from her that day so since i was there, it made sense to see the potential parents to make an informed decision on which bitch i would have liked a pup from... But i guessed not and left... I wish i'd have found out this before i gave her my 'non refundable' deposit... i'd have chose a different breeder who was willing to talk after that...
I feel so sorry for you and all the others this has happened. :( I regret I didnt push and fight more to publish the incidents here with the information I had from Nuuk's owners of his behavior. Maybe I could have saved a lot of people a lot of grief and anxiety. Sorry folks.

Also, about the matings. I first got a feeling that quite a bit happened without the Blues control when Lynn told me she was going to have two litters of huskies. And BOTH were accidental matings; she had planned Seren with Nanna and Ajax with Noushka, not the other way around. The litter Moose is from (Tumanra and Banjo(?)) was an accidental litter, they never knew she was pregnant. She gave birth when they were out of the country and their house and dogs taken care by someone else. This was all on the internet too, as the person who took care of their dogs runs a resort in Kuhmoinen, Mairela. The blog is still there (http://www.mairela.com/2006%20Blog.html) but the dogs' names and breeds have been changed, I take it because of Lynn's request. Here is the part:

"Thursday 14th September 2006

What a night and what a day!! The dogs drove me insane last night with barking , I was so tired from everything and they just wouldn't shut up so about midnight I stuck the worst offenders, the collies inside. This didn't seem to work completely as the dogs seemed stirred up still so at 2am I was back outside trying to get them to shut up. It was then that I heard and saw a puppy moving and thought that I was hallucinating from sleep depravation I went and pulled some trousers on and got a torch.....it was a puppy!! One of the dogs had been pregnant without anyone knowing and now she was giving birth. I grabbed the puppy which was cold and dirty and rushed it inside.....closely followed by mum! Emptied out the toy cupboard, rushed back down to the barn to grab handfuls of newspaper, rehomed the other indoors dogs into the dining room and settled the new mum into the cupboard. I was up all night delivering puppies, unfortunately only the first 2 were born alive, I tried for ages with gently breathing into the stillborn pups but there was nothing to do. I phoned the vet after the 2nd stillborn pup but she said that it happened quite often and there was nothing to be done so long as the others were happy and mum was looking after them....which she was. If I thought that I was sleep deprived at the beginning of the night.....


I have the originals saved, compare e.g. the attached print screen to the blog that I linked. I have a feeling that if you asked from Mairela owner, she would tell you the truth too.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:21 am

BinBin wrote:
TerriHolt wrote: I asked to see her dogs at the Tam show in question (last year not this year) and she said she was too busy... so i waited till most had gone and she seemed to be talking more, i went over, she introduced Sam to the judge saying how much she liked him and his colour so i took the opportunity to ask again and she wandered off as if she never heard me...
The thing was, i put my deposit down for a pup from her that day so since i was there, it made sense to see the potential parents to make an informed decision on which bitch i would have liked a pup from... But i guessed not and left... I wish i'd have found out this before i gave her my 'non refundable' deposit... i'd have chose a different breeder who was willing to talk after that...
I feel so sorry for you and all the others this has happened. :( I regret I didnt push and fight more to publish the incidents here with the information I had from Nuuk's owners of his behavior. Maybe I could have saved a lot of people a lot of grief and anxiety. Sorry folks.
Yeah, you could have made posts but how long would they have stayed up... Mine used to go within hours :lol: . And you'd have been banned from the forum and had your name dragged through mud yet again ;) (with no one believing a word you said anyhow)...
BinBin wrote:I first got a feeling that quite a bit happened without the Blues control when Lynn told me she was going to have two litters of huskies. And BOTH were accidental matings; she had planned Seren with Nanna and Ajax with Noushka, not the other way around. The litter Moose is from (Tumanra and Banjo(?)) was an accidental litter, they never knew she was pregnant.
Considering she boasts about over 30 years breeding experience, she has been having "accidents" more than your average noob breeder...

I've been wondering about all the "accidents"... When she was breeding shepherds and other dogs, was she kc registered? and if she was, did she use the same kennel name?
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Tatzel » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:28 am

Am I the only one who thinks that 32 dogs are too much?

I just really wonder how someone can give the needed devotion and attention to 32 dogs at once, each and every day.
No wonder the puppies weren't properly socialized?!
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Karen » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:44 am

Well, I know more people with over 30 dogs and even much more! But they are all mushers of big racing teams or sleddog farms with provide tours for tourists.

I have email concerning that period as well somewhere as it was right after I got Kal-le from Finland. Lynn said she had Tumanra ( Iola) pups without her being around and without knowing she was pregnant. Couple of months later ( 9 months?) there was another litter with Tumanra and when I asked questions about that short period she just told me I misunderstood that earlier mail and that other litter was from the year before :roll:
I even sent her her own emails as evidence that I wasnt hallucinating, but she just stopped responding....

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:48 am

Tatzel wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that 32 dogs are too much?
No, you're not alone in that thought... I couldn't give individual love and attention to more than 5... if i had 32, they would be more or less feral through lack of interaction... you could only spend about half hour a day with each dog (and that's not including any puppies)...
Karen wrote:I even sent her her own emails as evidence that I wasnt hallucinating, but she just stopped responding....
Wow... you didn't get accused of faking them? :lol:

So the consecutive breeding has been going on for a while then? So very sad :(
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by BinBin » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:08 pm

Tatzel wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that 32 dogs are too much?
And what I have been wondering, is what ever happened to Benji and the other Border Collie they arrived with. And the Scottish Deer Hounds and Lhasa apsos. And Samba, the ute x GSD. I mean it has only been so few years and the dogs just keep changing and changing.

(Personally I think sleddogs make an exception as they are independent "dog dogs" and pack dogs that live outside. Most of the sibe people I know have at least ten to twelve dogs, some have many, many more but they run a business).
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Karen » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:03 pm

Yes, I also think it is no prob as long as they are sleddogs ( whatever breed of sleddog) But not with just any breed.
A lot of dogs disappeared over the years... Rehomed somewhere.

And no, she didnt accuse me if faking. Just that my memory and English probably wasnt sufficient ;)
My hubby and I knew from that point, just because how she reacted to it all, that there was more going on and just started observing to find out what was happening. But deliberately didn't get into a fight as we already saw that she would just trash you and get away with it ( we saw what she did with Tuuli)

We just got out of the whole mess when we got our 2nd tam pup, wich we wanted as a friend to Kal-le. Dropped being the representative for the NL and turned away.
Got into a nasty fight with Lynn anyway after that tho...

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Nino » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:51 pm

BinBin wrote:
And what I have been wondering, is what ever happened to Benji and the other Border Collie they arrived with. And the Scottish Deer Hounds and Lhasa apsos. And Samba, the ute x GSD. I mean it has only been so few years and the dogs just keep changing and changing.

(Personally I think sleddogs make an exception as they are independent "dog dogs" and pack dogs that live outside. Most of the sibe people I know have at least ten to twelve dogs, some have many, many more but they run a business).
Still think the Border Collie are there.. and Jennie had a litter of Lhasa's last October/November..
>> Nino <<
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Tatzel » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:51 pm

Yeah, but last time I checked Tamaskan weren't supposed to be independand sled dogs, but meant to be family pets :/
... I'm actually glad I got to know all of this now so I can pick a different breeder for the future, and before I placed down any non-refundable deposit.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:39 pm

Well a 2nd 'Golden' puppy is now up for rehoming :cry:

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by arianwenarie » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:42 pm

Rahne wrote:Well a 2nd 'Golden' puppy is now up for rehoming :cry:
:( So sad. May I ask which one?

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Gaby » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:45 pm

Rahne wrote:Well a 2nd 'Golden' puppy is now up for rehoming :cry:
:o Which one?

When we were there, I asked her why she had so many and if it did not bother her. She said it did bother her, but she was the whole day busy with her dogs and she wanted to keep a dog from each line now. Because the breed was just starting off she wanted to export breeding males en females from each bloodline everywhere, so if the breed had a stable breeding stock there would be a time she could start getting less dogs and spend more time with them. But she'd rather saw the way other people kept their dogs, inside the house and doing classes and courses with them etc. It did sound plausible at the time, she was busy with her dogs all day, letting them out in their big fenced backjard to play with eachother. She did have a very old Border Collie (don't know his name, how did Benji looked?) that was in the house. I thought she really had a big hart for her dogs and the breed, I did not expect all of this to happen...

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Rahne » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:47 pm

http://tamaskanforum.forumup.co.uk/view ... askanforum

This is soooo sad, the pups just turned 5 months old.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Gaby » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:51 pm

That poor thing. :( Did you have contact with the owners? Do you know why they done him away?

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:12 pm

He has been back with me for several days now and he is an absolute babe.
So they are just giving him up for no reason? Does she ever thell the whole truth :evil: ? Playing up how nice he is will only land him in trouble... is she completely and totally mad?

Sorry... :oops: But she is going to play more people like violins and blame them when they encounter issues...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Tiantai » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:07 am

TerriHolt wrote:
He has been back with me for several days now and he is an absolute babe.
So they are just giving him up for no reason? Does she ever thell the whole truth :evil: ? Playing up how nice he is will only land him in trouble... is she completely and totally mad?

Sorry... :oops: But she is going to play more people like violins and blame them when they encounter issues...
Alright, although I do feel sorry for the pup, I don't think continuing on demonizing Lynn is going to make the case any better either. I think we should wait until we find out who the new owner is and learn how the dog behaves around him/her before making assumptions that there is something in the behaviour of the dog that Lynn isn't telling. I don't deny that she did screw up a hell lot with other pups but maybe it's better to try and tone it down a tiny bit. The TDR, as you already know, is still in transition and any high emotional outburst can hurt the community as the last thiing anyone wants is another infight here on the forum. But I do agree with you that Lynn has blamed people with issues.
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by AZDehlin » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:56 am

How sad :( Hope he finds a home that is right for him.

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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Sylvaen » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:38 pm

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:I think we should wait until we find out who the new owner is and learn how the dog behaves around him/her before making assumptions that there is something in the behaviour of the dog that Lynn isn't telling.
Bear's former owner was/is a member here on the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2772
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Re: Golden Litter Discussion

Post by Tiantai » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:33 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
fangjingtuanlucas wrote:I think we should wait until we find out who the new owner is and learn how the dog behaves around him/her before making assumptions that there is something in the behaviour of the dog that Lynn isn't telling.
Bear's former owner was/is a member here on the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2772
I see, now I remember. It's too bad this had to happen though.
Still, I don't think demonizing Lynn would solve anything.
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