Sasha.....a dilemma !!

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Jen
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Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Jen » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:01 pm

Hello everyone :) :) :) I was just hoping that some people may have some experience / knowledge or advice on my little dilemma !! I have a Tamaskan Sasha who is 4 1/2 years old and from Sky / Susi . She is now a very lovely and incredibly sweet girly who is very patient and gentle with our young children and adores the other dogs in her pack which with ours and my mums combined is 9 strong!!! She can be a little bit stand offish with strangers but not very much and normally likes other dogs as long as she has some time to great them and they are not too in her face at first!!! My only concern I have with her nature is she is very very strict with the two 12 year old terriers that we have (they were my husbands before we met) and this sometimes around food , turns into her going for them quite angrily (although she never actually hurts them at all) which is not a easy thing to live with when you have young children who get scared by these fights. They are not all the time but I have to always make sure the is no food anywhere they can reach as if one of the little dogs goes to get it ,Sasha will fly at them.
My reason for this post is to ask if anyone would know if spaying Sasha would possibly help with her behaviour as alongside this problem Sash also is very affected by her hormones and has false pregnancies when she will not eat and becomes very low and quiet for a good month or so. I have always had bitches and am not a believer in spaying for the sake of it but I would do it if it would help her to be calmer and possibly less concerned with keeping everyone in order and just enjoy life more.
Any opinions and experiences would be greatly welcomed as I want to do the very best thing for my lovely Sashy girl who I adore . I will of course speak to a vet also etc but would love as much input as possible.

Many thanks in advance :D xx

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Jen » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:41 pm

* sorry Skye /Susi....I knew that !! *

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:48 pm

Is she only strict with the terrier while in cycle?
If she is not going to be used for breeding, spaying may be the best option so she can lead an easier life without dealing with false pregnancies and not eating.
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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Jen » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:11 pm

No...she is the same with them all the time really but suffers from the moods and drop in appetite mainly after her seasons. I worry about any negative side effects of spaying also and wondered if anyone had experienced any at all ??? She only has one season a year but with moods starting before her season ,during it and for some time after the is quite some months of the year she is not very happy :(

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Tana » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:33 pm

It is hard to say, what causes the tension between them. For the start you have to find the quilty one. Maybe one of the terriers triggers the tension and she only reacts to it. I would suggest you to teach them self-control, to feed them from the hand, marking good behaviours...And also, don't allow any tension. Correct it, at level 1, don't wait until is too late. You have to be the pack leader and show them, when is enough, and how you expect to behave.

As for spaying, if she has problems with her cycle (false pregnancies), I would definitely recommend it. Unbalanced hormones, stress aren't good for health and well-being eather. Negative effects within large females are usually incontinence (you can easily solve it with medication) and in some studies more options for osteosarcoma (just a few percents). I see more positive effects in your case, than negative. I don't believe this will affect her behaviour around food. She will be (a little bit) calmer, more balanced but this won't eliminate the cause.

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:56 pm

It's a tough call. Spaying her might help the hormonal tensions but I don't think it will necessarily solve the problem either... I think plenty of patience and careful training (along with due care and diligence) should prevent any future 'fights' and help to maintain a peaceful environment. We feed our dogs individually (one by one) so that they can each eat in peace, at their own pace, without being bothered by the others or having to rush to eat before another dog steals their food... this makes mealtimes much more peaceful for everyone.

Personally, IF Sasha won't be used for breeding it probably would be best to spay her (certainly pyometra is a risk the older she gets without having a litter)... but, that being said, if she has a good hip score... an Ookami X Sasha litter would be amazing (though it would have to be soon, since she is getting on a bit now). In short: having a litter OR spaying her might improve her temperament but if she acts the same with the other dogs regardless, then it probably won't have a huge influence on the situation overall.
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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Karen » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:45 am

If a bitch is more dominant or more "agressive" by nature, neutering wont help and can even make it worse.

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Jen » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:16 am

yes it is such a hard decision to make for me and I do worry about the possibility of spaying changing her nature for the worse, as I have heard can sometimes happen , as she is in every other way a very sweet girl. It is strange because Sasha will happily lick leftovers off a plate with any of the other dogs we have, but is so funny with the terriers. I do feel a part of it is her keeping them in check as they are very hyper and silly dogs who I would not trust around my children (as I said my husband had them before we met so I inherited the problem !!) and I notice Sasha herds them away if they head in direction of the kids. We do always feed them apart but with young children the will always be the odd bit of something thrown on the floor you dont notice !!!

I always wanted to have a litter from Sasha and when my springer spaniel had her litter last year Sasha was mum number two and played with them and cleaned them everyday!! She does have a very strong maternal instinct and would make a wonderful mum I am sure but I was unsure about having a litter from her for several reasons.

I need to have a good think and talk to my vet and think of what is best.....

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Booma » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:06 pm

If she is having phantom pregnancies I would look at having her spayed.
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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Sylvaen » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:16 pm

Jen wrote:I always wanted to have a litter from Sasha and when my springer spaniel had her litter last year Sasha was mum number two and played with them and cleaned them everyday!! She does have a very strong maternal instinct and would make a wonderful mum I am sure but I was unsure about having a litter from her for several reasons.
What reasons? (just curious)
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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Jen » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:24 pm

Well Debby it was really at the time I would have liked to have done it with Sash everything was coming out about Blustag etc and I was a little concerned about what would happen with the breed etc. Also I am not sure about how high the demand is for Tams in England as I wouldn't want my pups going too far away from me unless it was an exceptional home. I noticed that most members joining this forum were from America or Europe etc . I always wanted a Sasha / Ookami litter so much but with these reasons / time / having my springer litter etc it never really happened. :cry: If I had 8 amazing guarantied homes waiting for a puppy from me I would have gone for it but I was very worried about being left with pups as one Sashy is enough for this house ;) :lol:

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:51 pm

Freyja corrects our other dogs on a daily basis. I sort of count that as pack dynamics and normal behavior. Without seeing what exactly is going on it is hard to determine if what Sasha is doing is asserting her pack rank or actually being nasty. I don't correct Freyja for normal communication between pack members. We have her daughter and I think that this kind of expression is entirely normal.

But sometimes they need corrected and even need separated due to play getting out of hand. I feel very lucky that our four dogs get along very well.

But yes, that's an interesting point: the terriers could be triggering Sasha's reaction. It would take some observation to figure that one out but would be interesting to note.
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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Jen » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:26 pm

Thank you everyone for your opinions and advice....need a long hard think :?

Yes Hawthorne I do agree that a certain amount is normal and when all 9 of ours are together you will always get the odd little grumble here and there although Mums golden retriever Harriet is the boss for sure and keeps everyone in check!! Sasha also is submissive to her as she is with most of the dogs here.....she is not a dominant or aggressive dog at all its just these tellings off the terriers keep getting when they go near food. I have to correct the terriers alot too (only verbally) as they are very difficult and I wonder if she is backing me up sometimes ??? I wouldn't mind her growling or nipping then sometimes but although the is never a mark on them she really goes for them as has to be pulled off them by us . I really dont think she has in intention of hurting them at all but these scenes are not nice to live with at all. I need to have a good long think about everything and work out a plan of action I think. It is such a shame because all the rest of the pack get along so well and never argue at all.

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:36 pm

Good luck!
I can certainly attest that when we tell Raven or Darwin no Freyja sometimes gets really silly (like she's happy we're disciplining them and she doesn't have to). Too funny!
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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by arianwenarie » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:17 pm

Jen wrote: I have to correct the terriers alot too (only verbally) as they are very difficult and I wonder if she is backing me up sometimes ??? I wouldn't mind her growling or nipping then sometimes but although the is never a mark on them she really goes for them as has to be pulled off them by us . I really dont think she has in intention of hurting them at all but these scenes are not nice to live with at all. I need to have a good long think about everything and work out a plan of action I think. It is such a shame because all the rest of the pack get along so well and never argue at all.
Since you brought this up, is there a trend where you notice her growling/nipping/etc when you are correcting the terriers? If so, then there's the possibility she's backing you up. This would be considered pack mentality. If this is the case, then don't allow her to display any unwanted behaviors - make her leave the room if you have to. She needs to understand you'll ask for her help when you decide you need it - not when she decides you need it.

Sorry if I'm going on the wrong track completely...just trying to help figure this out for you. ;) Got any videos?

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Jen » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:23 pm

Yes....interesting point arianwenarie and yes she is very aware of what they are doing all the time and nips their bums if they go near the children if they are playing outside with a ball for example, or if i shout them to stop something (normally barking!) she will nudge them or growl a bit at the same time. To be fair to Sash she is probably being very observant and realizes they need keeping under control !! :lol: I will work on this now with that in mind and make it very clear to her that I dont want her to help me unless I ask her. Aren't they funny these Tams and its really quite lovely that she is backing me up if you think about it.....I just need to convince her that I CAN manage on my own !!! :lol:

Spaying wise I will see how this goes and have a good think about what is a big decision for us. Thanks guys :D

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by arianwenarie » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:37 pm

Jen wrote:Yes....interesting point arianwenarie and yes she is very aware of what they are doing all the time and nips their bums if they go near the children if they are playing outside with a ball for example, or if i shout them to stop something (normally barking!) she will nudge them or growl a bit at the same time. To be fair to Sash she is probably being very observant and realizes they need keeping under control !! :lol: I will work on this now with that in mind and make it very clear to her that I dont want her to help me unless I ask her. Aren't they funny these Tams and its really quite lovely that she is backing me up if you think about it.....I just need to convince her that I CAN manage on my own !!! :lol:
I'd suggest trying this out before deciding whether to spay her since it may only be a simple case of mis-communication. ;)

Personally speaking, I don't let my dog (a labrador though) run after kids while they're playing and if any human has food, she must leave the room or be at least 10 feet away with her back turned towards us so she doesn't think she's supervising us eating. She is an only dog, so no opportunities to see how she reacts in a canine pack environment. lol.

If I want kids to play with Abby, then I start a game of fetch in the backyard. Abby brings the toy back to me, I hand it off to one of the kids, Abby goes to retrieve it and gives it to me. Rinse and repeat until I say we're done. That way, it's very clear to her that Abby gets to play as long as I (the adult) controls everything - even the kids. So, she understand she's not allowed to correct the kids or act as babysitter. :P

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Wolfsbane » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:55 pm

It is difficult to predict how spaying will influence her behavior. I can understand the dilemma... I'm not pro spaying but I'm now also thinking of having Konah done next year. Not because of her behavior or because seasons trouble her, but because I just can't tell in any way when she is in season, and I'm worried one of these days we will end up with an 'oopsie' because of it :oops:

The first time she was 21 months, no symptoms whatsoever (bleeding, swelling etc.) but during a walk 3 males all tried to mate her and they started to fight over her. So I guess something was going on... 12 months later same story, except this time I did find a drop of blood on the floor. 17 months later... (yes she is very consistent!) males started showing interest and I found another drop of blood, yay! I had thought 3 times before she was in season, because males tend to show interest in her the full year, and there's always some that try to mate her. I brought her to the vet to check her progesteron levels to see if she was really in season this time, and she was. Weirdly enough though, her levels stayed very low (at the beginning of a season), they never rose and she didn't ovulate. Well this was last September, so only 7/8 months ago... turns out she is in season right now! She ran off the other day, turned out she had 'smelled' (she literally put her nose in the air and started wagging her tail) a nice male. Well I continued to walk she didn't follow me (she always follows me!) and when she did finally came to me after 15 minutes playing with the male (who really liked her too and did try to hump her, but she wouldn't allow it) she ran off again... She wasn't done flirting with him!
Never has she done this, so I checked her as soon as we got home... nothing. However the next day when she lay next to me on the couch, belly in the air, I checked again and there was some blood. No clue when she started. I have had intact bitches before, never an issue finding out when they were in season (blood everywhere, swelling, clear pattern), but with Konah it is just impossible :?

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Re: Sasha.....a dilemma !!

Post by Jen » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:16 pm

That sounds a nightmare Rahne...... must be so hard to plan anything etc. It is so hard with bitches in particular to know what to do...... have never had a bitch spayed before myself but really wondering if it may be the right thing for Sashy ???? Tricky one :? :? :?

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