Particular problem areas?

All topics pertaining to agility, obedience, sled racing, search & rescue, therapy training, etc.
Post Reply
WhiteElkStag
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Contact:

Particular problem areas?

Post by WhiteElkStag » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:26 pm

Hi All, I've been reading a lot of books about dog training to prepare myself for when our puppies get here in a couple of weeks. All of the books note that each individual breed is generally known for a couple areas where they excel in integrating in to domestic human life, and a couple area where they need extra work. For example, one of the books talks about how German Shepards need extra socialization compared to many other breeds. And, in general, terriers need extra work to help them ignore small animals. One of the reasons why we chose to get Tams is because they're intelligent, eager to please, extremely friendly and enjoy work. But, can anyone tell me any particular problem areas that they've run in to while training?

Thanks!
Ben Premack
www.WhiteElkTamaskan.com
www.Facebook.com/WhiteElkTamaskan
Rhea (Saxon Aquila at White Elk), Sophie (Saxon Canis Venatici at White Elk), and Auri (Blufawn Sunshine on My Shoulders at White Elk)

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Nino » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:02 pm

I've only ever met Sølve - but I can already feel that I do need to work a lot on the recall, ells she needs socialisation (she is a bit cautious with strange people, unless they have a dog with them), I need to train her to not pick everyhing up, and that not all dogs have to be talked to. Ells I haven't found big problems with her needing special care.. she is very relaxed in general
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
Gaby
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:08 am
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Gaby » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:43 pm

Interesting topic! I do not have a Tam (yet) so I can't help you with anything. But I like these questions. ;)

A friend of mine has 2 huskies, which have a lot of hunting instinct. He can only have them off leash when he walks them separated, because they will go hunting when they are together. And the Tamaskan is close related to the husky, do Tams have such a hunting instinct too?

Rahne

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Rahne » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:30 pm

hmm, I've had problems with leaving Konah alone, it's still an issue. She also destroyed everything as a pup, housebreaking took me around 8 months, she was car sick, she ate everything she could find, steal and protect food etc.. Some pups will be easier then others ;)

Konah is very good offleash, she will stay near me and watch me. However if she spots a prey she will hunt it. She has already killed and eaten several moles, mouses, rabbits. I only leave her off the leash in safe area's, no roads nearby.

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Nino » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:19 pm

Rahne wrote:hmm, I've had problems with leaving Konah alone, it's still an issue. She also destroyed everything as a pup, housebreaking took me around 8 months, she was car sick, she ate everything she could find, steal and protect food etc.. Some pups will be easier then others
lol.. I forgot that :lol:

She don't like being alone, but most of the time she is good, I was home with her for the first month and trained it a lot!

Sølve isn't house trained yet, but it has gotten a LOT better - in the last 2 weeks or so she have only poo'ed inside once when I was home and twice when I was out, if I'm not enough aware she does pee, but she is getting pretty good at telling me she have to go outside

She gets carsick.. but I've found out if she sits with someone then she don't droowl as much (almost none at all) - which makes me think it might be all stress - she have only barfed a hand full of times and I drive with her several times a week.

She was a lot protective of her food at first but as I don't accept this (I need to be sure that if a child by accident takes something from her she wont bite) I've been training this and she is almost always okay with it now. - she is VERY interessted in my rats, and I have to tell her to bug off about twice a day so that she doesn't stress them (or they bite her cause they will!) - she doesn't steel from my sofa table and if food is there she knows it's not hers.. but she steals garbage lol - some of her best toys are actually plastic boxes
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
HiTenshi16
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Princeton, TX US
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:06 pm

With Ulric, house training did take a while (I think 8 months?) though he has had a couple accidents last month I think it was because he was testing his limits but now he has been very good about telling me to go out. Ulric was bad about counter-surfing and we still need to train him on it but lately he has not had the chance to try so don't know if he is as bad as before. The only other thing with him is strangers, some people he is very cautious with, others just a little shy or they're ignored. He will though bark at the security guards at the dog park. But after spending time with him he then warms up to someone new. We don't know how he is when we are gone yet as he is always in the crate but soon we are planning on giving him a try and put away the crate.
Image

Rahne

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Rahne » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:07 pm

Nino wrote:
lol.. I forgot that :lol:

She don't like being alone, but most of the time she is good, I was home with her for the first month and trained it a lot!
That sounds good :) Sometimes Konah does fine if she is left alone for an hour an other times she is totally stressed when I get back home :( Last time I left her alone for 10 min and she had destroyed the garbage bag, it was a huge mess :shock: She has destroyed so many things.. Last time I left her alone in the car half of my seat was gone :lol:
Sølve isn't house trained yet, but it has gotten a LOT better - in the last 2 weeks or so she have only poo'ed inside once when I was home and twice when I was out, if I'm not enough aware she does pee, but she is getting pretty good at telling me she have to go outside
My other dogs were house trained within 2 weeks so Konah was a lot of work! I had to leave her out every hour the first 4 months, then every 2 hours etc. and after 8 months I could leave her out every 4 hours.. Now she can keep it up for 6/8 hours but sometimes she can still have an accident.
She gets carsick.. but I've found out if she sits with someone then she don't droowl as much (almost none at all) - which makes me think it might be all stress - she have only barfed a hand full of times and I drive with her several times a week.
I know with Konah it was stress. She would already start drooling when she only saw the car, lol. She would also poo and puke in the car. Now she is doing really well, she has amost stopped with the drooling :)
She was a lot protective of her food at first but as I don't accept this (I need to be sure that if a child by accident takes something from her she wont bite) I've been training this and she is almost always okay with it now. - she is VERY interessted in my rats, and I have to tell her to bug off about twice a day so that she doesn't stress them (or they bite her cause they will!) - she doesn't steel from my sofa table and if food is there she knows it's not hers.. but she steals garbage lol - some of her best toys are actually plastic boxes
Konah would attack me when I would go near her food :shock: I have trained it with her and can now take everything from her when it's necessary. If she has a bone now in the house she will put it on my lap to chew it. Only problem is outside when she is off the leash, if she then finds a prey she will stay away from me so I can't take it. I don't have any rodents anymore in the house but I think they wouldn't live for very long :? Ohh and she is a big thief! I can't leave any food on the table and then turn my back because it will be gone then. She has actually stolen food out of my hand and from my plate.

User avatar
wicca1
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 10:15 pm
Location: scotland

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by wicca1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:12 am

lenka is very good with food, if she has a bone she will drop it if i tell her to and when she killed a pheasant she did the same thing and i made sure she saw me putting it in the bin, the people who had her before us also taught her to be good when people are eating and we have never had a problem with her bothering us with our food. she does seem to have quite a high prey drive but i'm hoping she will grow out of that as she matures.

User avatar
sky
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 11:56 pm
Location: NC USA

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by sky » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:18 am

Yes, also a long potty training experience and eating things that didn't belong to him. He did a lot of biting and jumping as a pup, but this is typical of puppies. He learned quickly to exchange bites for kisses at command! They really are smart, but sometimes extremely stubborn! Take time to train them well and they won't disappoint.

User avatar
Jen
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: shropshire

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Jen » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:09 am

In my experience with Sasha the two things you really should concentrate on are socialisation and recall. Make sure your puppy has lots and lots of really positive experiences with as many things as possible especially people and dogs.

I found Sasha needed to meet twenty nice dogs to get her over the one mean one she would meet and one really bad experience she had will always stay with her I think although she is a 1000 times more confident and relaxed now at sixteen months.

Also never let these dogs realise they can outwit and outrun you or you are totally screwed!! :lol: I speak from experience in this area!! :lol:

User avatar
miffany
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 11:56 am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by miffany » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:07 pm

My Top Tip would be to decide on a training method right from the beginning and then stick to it religiously. I read so many books and ended up going to different classes because I couldn't work out which would be the best way to train my Tam and now I have quite an unruly teenager who hasn't had consistent training. Zuuk is pretty good really, but, he is as stubborn as hell and certainly knows how to out wit and out run me!

I have now started some one-to-one lessons with a dog trainer and I can see that I made such a huge mistake by not being consistent in the past as I have a much bigger mountain to climb and have to be much harder on Zuuk now to break him of the bad habits I have allowed him to develop. Having said all that though, Zuuk is the loveliest, sweetest boy and I couldn't love him more!

I found he was pretty easy to house train and he has an incredible bladder - he's gone 16 hrs without asking to be let out in the past and no accidents since he was 4 months or so. He has never been possessive about food and will let me put my hand in his mouth to pull stolen items out, such as kentucky fried chicken wings he found in a carpark or a pheasant carcass he retrieved from the bottom of my parent's kitchen bin - though he won't give them up voluntarily!

User avatar
TeresaC
Tamabulous (Promoter)
Tamabulous (Promoter)
Posts: 720
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 4:30 am
Location: WI USA
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by TeresaC » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:51 am

This breed in general is wonderful to train. This was one of the reasons that I was drawn to this breed. I find them to be a sensitive breed that is generally food motivated which makes positive reinforcement a wonderful training method. I have been most impressed with the ability to train recalls (come).

I think the toughest part of training has been house training for our male and being left alone for our female. In my opinion, both were easy once they were both put on a consistent training program.

We've started obedience trainig with our male and our female is excelling in agility. They are a really fun breed!!

As a comparison, I've also worked with Rottweilers, German Shepherds, German Shorthair Pointers and some mix breeds. All are wonderful, but I love this breed!!!!!!
Teresa Cutler
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary

WhiteElkStag
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by WhiteElkStag » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:49 am

TeresaC wrote:I find them to be a sensitive breed that is generally food motivated which makes positive reinforcement a wonderful training method.
We've been discussing whether we want to work with praise training or treat training. From the reading that I've been doing I had decided that I wanted to stick with praise training and save treats for well... treats. Do you think that training with treats is particularly more effective for Tams?
Ben Premack
www.WhiteElkTamaskan.com
www.Facebook.com/WhiteElkTamaskan
Rhea (Saxon Aquila at White Elk), Sophie (Saxon Canis Venatici at White Elk), and Auri (Blufawn Sunshine on My Shoulders at White Elk)

Rahne

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Rahne » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:09 am

Onarian wrote:
TeresaC wrote:I find them to be a sensitive breed that is generally food motivated which makes positive reinforcement a wonderful training method.
We've been discussing whether we want to work with praise training or treat training. From the reading that I've been doing I had decided that I wanted to stick with praise training and save treats for well... treats. Do you think that training with treats is particularly more effective for Tams?
Praise training doesn't work well for my girl. She will do what I ask once, twice, three times and then she will just ignore me and do something fun for herself. She wants a reward for her hard work and praising her isn't enough ;) With training I now try to reward her in different ways, so with a treat but also with my voice or a cuddle or a toy. Only with recall I still always give her a treat so I know she will come to me when I call her. Her recall is pretty good and I want to keep it that way.

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Nino » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:10 pm

I use both treats and praise.. but I don't think she will listen to me half the time if I didn't do treats as well
>> Nino <<
Image

WhiteElkStag
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by WhiteElkStag » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:21 pm

What about intermittent treats. Use a treat every once in a while when she does what you want, so she can't predict if you're going to only give her praise or also a treat? Or, is that essentially what you're already doing?
Ben Premack
www.WhiteElkTamaskan.com
www.Facebook.com/WhiteElkTamaskan
Rhea (Saxon Aquila at White Elk), Sophie (Saxon Canis Venatici at White Elk), and Auri (Blufawn Sunshine on My Shoulders at White Elk)

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Nino » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:28 pm

Onarian wrote:What about intermittent treats. Use a treat every once in a while when she does what you want, so she can't predict if you're going to only give her praise or also a treat? Or, is that essentially what you're already doing?
I'm not totally sure what this means "What about intermittent treats" can you rephrase so I'm totally sure what it means?

I do not always give her treats when training, when walking her I mostly don't, but I get her to sit every time we cross a road..
I do use praise always when she does something right.. sometimes I use toys too when training her - she has started comming with them to play and when she does it's a perfect time to train a little too..
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
JulieSmith
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2535
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by JulieSmith » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:52 pm

I can only speak about my experiences with Thor and it's treat, treat and treat again. He is very food motivated and learns very quickly if he gets a treat. The treat can just be his normal food, it does not have to be fancy treats, although for a really good recall (i.e. when he is playing with other dogs) he does get an extra special treat. Once he has learned something the treat gets phased out, but not totally so as Onarian says sometimes you treat, sometimes just praise.

The down side is that he does expect a treat in some circumstances, if he goes out to do his toilet when he comes in he sits there and waits for his treat, even if he has just gone out and then turned round and come back in without doing anything he sits and waits, he is so cute that he usually gets a treat.

One tip I was given was to put the treats in a small plastic tub and I find that very useful with recall as he responds very well to it being rattled along with either being called or using a whistle.

User avatar
Jen
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: shropshire

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Jen » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:32 am

It really is sooo helpful if your dog is food motivated. All mine before Sasha have always been so but Sasha... not so much!! :lol: She kind of likes a couple of really yummy treats but has never been that bothered and digging holes in the garden has always been far more appealing for her. Praise does nothing for her either , she doesn't care if she is a good girl or not!!

This problem really does make training so much harder :x

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Nino » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:11 am

Kovo is not food motivated at all.. or toy motivated.. so he just do things when he wants to.. glat that Sølve isn't like that!
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
Tarheel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 1:37 am
Location: North Carolina USA
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Tarheel » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:45 am

Alot is going to depend on how your pups reacts to either treats or praise. If I had the right treat inmy hand and Tundra knew what treat I had she would go through her whole regiment of tricks and learned commands to get the treat. I would not even have to say anything. Her thought process was if she did the right trick she would get the treat, so instead of waiting for my command, she would just sho me everything she was taught until I tossed her the treat. For some reason the boys (Blaze and Jaeger) are more praise driven, but if I have chicken gizzards and hearts, I have their complete attention.
In my opinion, do not stick with just one way to reward for training. Remain flexible and work off what your dog responds to best.
John Bannow
Tarheel Tamaskan
Committee of Breeders

User avatar
miffany
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 11:56 am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by miffany » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:51 pm

But do you not find that with treats, they are all good and well until your dog starts to weigh up the treat versus whatever fun they are having?

This has been my my dilemma and problem. Zuuk is very food orientated and will, as John's Tundra will do, go through his whole repertoire of tricks to get a treat, unless that is, he's too busy playing with another dog, chasing a horse/cow/chicken (insert anything that moves in here) or eating horse/cow/rabbit shit, and then he'll decide that nothing I could possibly have in my hand could be as valuable or interesting or as what he is doing and just will not come back, until he's decided he's ready then he'll come bounding up and want a treat.

User avatar
Tarheel
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 1:37 am
Location: North Carolina USA
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Tarheel » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:40 pm

You are correct. Very seldom would Tundra lock on to something else that was more interesting than her treat, but when that would happen, there was nothing that would distract her baack and get her focus on what I wanted her to do.
I think that sometimes the Tamaskan breed can be too smart for their own good. Their high intelligence gives them the sense that sometimes they think they know better than us.
John Bannow
Tarheel Tamaskan
Committee of Breeders

User avatar
kendrrat
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:49 am
Location: California

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by kendrrat » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:28 am

i dont know if any of you have this problem, but with my rorri when i have a treat she will do the same thing- do every trick in the book, pay good attention etc. but when im not holding a treat she'll think about following my commands and MAYBE do them, depending on how serious she thinks i am haha! but then as soon as i go grab her treats she's all ears! for a while i kept treats in my pocket and surprised her by treating good behavior when she didnt think i had treats. that started to keep her on her toes, but since i havent been living with her (having moved out 2 years ago) my parents just spoil her and she has regressed.

User avatar
Jen
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 1:21 pm
Location: shropshire

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Jen » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:58 am

Zuuk and Sasha sound like they have alot in common!! She knows that if she wants to run off and do something the is nothing I can do about it as I cannot catch her. I think the trick is never giving them the chance to realise this!!
She will come in from the garden when my husband firmly shouts her since he went out and chased her for ten minutes until he caught her , so she now knows he can!! I haven't quite got the stamina!! :lol:

This breed seem to test and question wether you / the reward are worth it quite alot which I agree is normally a sign of real brains :roll:

User avatar
TeresaC
Tamabulous (Promoter)
Tamabulous (Promoter)
Posts: 720
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 4:30 am
Location: WI USA
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by TeresaC » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:02 am

Training with treats is a highly debated topic. I personally believe that treats are highly motivating, but they are something that become less used as the dogs become more trained.

When first training a new command or shaping a behavior I use lots of treats along with praise. You want the dogs to associate praise with a good feeling (yummy treats usually make them feel good). One of my dogs will now salivate when I say "good dog" during training. The association has been made in full.

Once the dog has learned the behavior, think of treats as playing a slot machine. Why do we play the slot machine? Because we want to win a jackpot!! Why do we keep putting our coins in? There might be a chance to win something :lol:

You're dogs will work for this as well. Once they know the behavior, the treats happen sporadically. Sometimes nothing, sometimes just a little taste and once in a great while...the jackpot!!! One thing about jackpots. Five very small treats handed out one after another is not the same as five treats handed out at the same time. Dogs to not understand amount, but they do understand frequency. I will use a tiny piece of cheese or meat and break it up into tiny pieces for my jackpot. They only get a piece the size of my pinky fingernail, but in their minds they got the jackpot because it consisted of FIVE treats. Silly dogs...
Teresa Cutler
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary

WhiteElkStag
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Tamtastic (Apprentice)
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by WhiteElkStag » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:25 am

Great advice Teresa! Thank you. What you said really puts into words and further develops the thoughts I have been pondering about training our pups.

Have any of you words on auditory training? E.g. jingling keys, or using a clicker? The Monks of New Skete, in their book How to Be Your Dog's Best friend, speak of it very highly. Any opinions?
Ben Premack
www.WhiteElkTamaskan.com
www.Facebook.com/WhiteElkTamaskan
Rhea (Saxon Aquila at White Elk), Sophie (Saxon Canis Venatici at White Elk), and Auri (Blufawn Sunshine on My Shoulders at White Elk)

wyatt
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:59 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by wyatt » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:05 pm

They're too smart...
That's the biggest help and drawback I've had trying to train Wyatt..
He has been able to learn a couple of commands after only one instance of rewarding that particular command.
House training him was almost too easy, which I think set up me up for disappointment when it came to the rest of his training...
Wyatt is not aggressive when you attempt to take treats/food/bones from him (though he was at first, it was very easy to nip that at a young age), however he is extremely aggressive with food and bones around other dogs.
Socialization was easy until he reached adolescence and he became quite dominant/aggressive (though it has reduced significantly over the last year)

He can escape crates (3 entirely different lock types to date), open doors and defeat some types of baby locks...
His food container has a giant round lid that screws open as well, if it's not tightened down all the way, he can even unscrew the top and access his food (though he doesn't overeat, our other dog will then proceed to eat ad infinitum if he has access to food).
He is highly motivated by food, though his level of attention will correspond directly to the quality of the treat.
When he was younger, if you had a treat up for offer, he would run through every trick and command he knew (about 9 or 10), and then proceed to growl in protest, or attempt to steal the treat from your hand, if he didn't immediately get the treat.
He is very independent and thus, recall is only on his terms (he would chase a deer into the woods and we'd never see him again if he was off leash)...In a training environment, he is very good with recall, but out in the real world, we have not been able to get it to transfer whatsoever. I think plenty of people here have had better luck with reliable recall though.

That's personally been my experience :)

Sharon637
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:58 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Sharon637 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:51 pm

I would say vary training. They are so smart that you have to stay one step ahead. If training becomes boring, they will lose interest regardless of the treat. Food rewards works wonders in a training environment and sometimes I give and sometimes I don't. However, that interest doesn't hold outside in the real world, they couldn't care less about treats there, even with no other distractions than a scent, they don't want it.

Recall was great with my boy, terrible with the girl. She is off and running, even on the end of a lead she forgets we exist outside. The boy of course goes to round her up and tries to head her back in our direction but you still can't catch her! He will ignore everything for his tennis ball and also was very interested in clicker training, it worked well to get his attention. Funnily enough, he never cared if he was a "bad boy" whereas she would be grovelling if she was a "bad girl" so in the house she responds better, but outside it's him.

I think pick a method that appeals to you and you find easiest to work with and persevere a while with it. My mistake was to try too many different methods and not settle on one.

Just this minute, my two were out playing and she had walked a little too far onto the pool cover, it is vented in the middle so the water had come up and swirled around her paws and she froze in panic. What did the boy do? Come and paw at the door then run down the steps to her so I saw the problem and could rescue her. If it had been the other way round, my guess woud be that she would have figured out to put her weight on the other side to tip the water back. That's how smart these dogs are! You just have to try and out think them sometimes!!!!!

My boy housetrained in two weeks, the girl took 8 months. Neither have food aggression and you can take the meatiest marrow bone from them with merely a look of disappointment. They do have a high chase instinct so a tennis ball is perfect to direct that focus and work it. It's my boys' favourite thing in the whole wide world! I found the hardest thing was to take them out of the training environment where they learned new commands in seconds and keep the focus when there were other distractions.

Lots of people have given some really wonderful tips here :D I'm learning all the time......

User avatar
nine00
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:32 am
Location: N. California, USA

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by nine00 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:45 pm

Tarheel wrote:Alot is going to depend on how your pups reacts to either treats or praise. If I had the right treat inmy hand and Tundra knew what treat I had she would go through her whole regiment of tricks and learned commands to get the treat. I would not even have to say anything. Her thought process was if she did the right trick she would get the treat, so instead of waiting for my command, she would just sho me everything she was taught until I tossed her the treat. For some reason the boys (Blaze and Jaeger) are more praise driven, but if I have chicken gizzards and hearts, I have their complete attention.
In my opinion, do not stick with just one way to reward for training. Remain flexible and work off what your dog responds to best.
My boy also goes through his whole regiment of tricks if he knows that I have a treat in hand. How do you fix this? I want my boy to only do the trick when I say the command. Right now, if I have a treat and dont say a word, he will sit, down, stay and then give a little growl if I dont give him the treat, even if I dont say a word.

Is there a fix for this to have him wait for my command before doing the trick?

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:53 pm

nine00 wrote:My boy also goes through his whole regiment of tricks if he knows that I have a treat in hand. How do you fix this? I want my boy to only do the trick when I say the command.
yeah, this would be helpful... if sam sits, he will automatically give paw... it is actually something he taught him self and has always done it but when he sits in front of a 1 year old child and gives the child his paw... it goes higher than their head and we all know the rule right? what goes up must come down :oops: ... never heard a kid cry so loud... so if i can get it so he will only do things on command it would help heaps...
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

User avatar
Gaby
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:08 am
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Gaby » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:34 pm

Don't give him a treat when he does something you don't like. It is as simple as that. If you say 'sit' he gets the treat when he sits. Not when he sits and give a paw. When they are puppies I don't care too much and want that training is fun and to bond with the dog. But when he knows perfectly well what you want from him, he only gets it when he does exactly as you say. ;)

And about particular problem areas, I've got these problems with Mila:
- Destruction of carpets and other things at night or when we are gone
- Too much hunting instinct
- It was very difficult to teach her to stay alone (even though she is with or other dog)

User avatar
AZDehlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan, USA (for now)
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by AZDehlin » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:32 pm

Zephyr's trouble areas

- Being left alone
- Recall if there is another dog, squirrel, deer, ect.

User avatar
AngieH
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:29 pm
Location: Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by AngieH » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:23 pm

Paka & Fable:

Individually, they are angels.
Put them together and they loose their minds. :lol:

We are working on having them together, (walking beside each other, ignoring one another while we work them seperately but in the same large area, stuff like that, without having to constantly engage each other.)

Any other dog? Reasonable interaction and polite, happy-play.

Paka + Fable? It's just like siblings in a "friendly game" of racket ball that goes *intense* :roll:
One's horizon shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.
~Nin

User avatar
TeresaC
Tamabulous (Promoter)
Tamabulous (Promoter)
Posts: 720
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 4:30 am
Location: WI USA
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by TeresaC » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:28 am

For those of you with young dogs or dogs that are entering adolescense, don't forget what you are dealing with. When you say you are having trouble with a recall from a squirrel I equate this to a PhD level physics isssue. In kindergarden, you drop something it fell on the floor. When you are alone at home with no distractions and you call your dog and he come.... same thing. High school, you may learn about for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction.

By this point you should be able to call your dog away from mild play from other dogs. At the college level, you can call your dog at the dog park while highly engaged in play with all his best buddies. Calling your dog when mid-flight chasing a deer or rabbit is PhD level obedience. It often takes years of work and practice, practice and more practice.

Just keep it all in perspective and remember that it all takes work.
Teresa Cutler
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by arianwenarie » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:52 pm

My lab has medium prey drive and if on leash, she'll usually stop in her tracks when I tell her to. However, if she's already in mid-chase, there's no stopping her even though she knows the "stop" command. It's a game to her, but I'm still not exciting enough to get her to respond to the "stop" command in mid-chase and recall back to me.

The "stop" command is literally to get the dog to stop right where it is....pretty fun and frustrating to teach. lol. I've never tried her off-leash because I don't have a secure area to let her loose. Not that she'll come back unless there's food involved anyway. :roll:

wayalove
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:53 am
Location: NC

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by wayalove » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:53 pm

Please remind me one more time that "I'm just a kid mom". We are at 10 months now and every day is a little better. Still removing couch cushions and pillows from Jora (especially from about 4 pm on). We focus on play and exercise to tire her out and spray bitter apple every where.
What is the groups experience for reaching adulthood? Any tips on getting her to stop biting at things she shouldn't?
Wayalove - Life Mates; Wolves like the Indian choose their mates wisely and do not part till death - making the two spiritual entwined. By B.A. Roberts

User avatar
chelle784
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:38 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by chelle784 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:49 pm

Pepper was never a chewer but Phoenix was - but she seems to be growing out of this (she is 4/5months). If she picks up something she's not meant to, she knows 'drop it' but and gets a toy immediately in it's place so she doesn't associate the 'drop it' with getting nothing in return. I'm not sure if it's the training or the dogs aren't really chewers but we leave our shoes out and they don't get touched. Also they would rather chew each other's faces/legs instead lol

User avatar
Hawthorne
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Pennsylvania | USA
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:49 pm

This is where having a crate trained pup really helps. I do feel that if they are crate trained they learn what is "theirs" and what is not. We spend a lot of time with young pups putting things in their mouths that belong to them if 1. they chew or bite at our hands and 2. are found with an item they shouldn't have. They do seem to learn from this. Having tons of toys around also helps: all of different types and textures: hard rubber, antlers, nylabones, skinz (no stuffing), etc.

Obviously you are past that point now and if you don't have a crate trained pup then you may have to work extra hard at this until your dog is through the adolescent stage. Do you at least have a room, like a kitchen, where there is nothing accessible to your dog besides items that belong to him? We have a pet gate at our kitchen door so that the dogs cannot go into the living room unless we open the gate. That way, when we are not home, dogs are in the kitchen (and young pups are in crates with the adults in the kitchen). 100% supervision and vigilance are needed to teach them the things they shouldn't chew or bite on. If you can't give them your full attention they should go in their crate or in the "doggie room." Praise your dog for "trading" items with you if you catch them chewing on inappropriate things but then they readily take the correct toy from you.

Good luck! Tam adolescence can be very difficult but if properly trained with a lot of patience you will have a remarkable adult dog!
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

wayalove
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:53 am
Location: NC

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by wayalove » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:44 pm

Thanks Hawthorne. Sounds like we are doing what we need to. Jora is crated when we are gone. She seems to have a need to chew bad items in the evening. We give her bully sticks and elk antlers. We take away wubba then because we dont want her eating the tassels. We will try get some other different items too (perhaps some nylabones). We have watched her vigilantly since we got her in December. She is starting to leave some things alone that she couldnt resist before (like leatherbound books).
Thanks for the hopeful comments about having an excellent adult! That vision gives me renewed energy.
Wayalove - Life Mates; Wolves like the Indian choose their mates wisely and do not part till death - making the two spiritual entwined. By B.A. Roberts

User avatar
rhadamant
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:45 am
Location: Cali, USA

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by rhadamant » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:10 am

I've got two Tamaskans and here's my training and experience with both.

My dogs absolutely excel at 'work'. Within twenty minutes I had my 6 month old puppy (Tusk) running an entire agility course, with no prior experience or training for agility activity. The older one, Echo, who is almost a year and a half can run the course with no instruction, start to finish. These dogs are insanely intelligent and very eager to please. The pet sitter I have for them has said she has to take extra measures when watching my dogs because they outsmart all of the dog proofing she has for her home.

I read that a trouble area for a lot of people is prey drive and recall. I trained for prey drive and recall very early, knowing that it can be a tough thing later on to fix. Both Echo and Tush both grew up with an older brother who's a tiny little 7 pound dog and as a result my dogs have no prey drive. The first few days of getting them they wanted to chew is poofy tail or chase him around like he's a rabbit (because he looks like one) and, of course, I'd intervene. As a result they don't chase anything, ever. I've got a lot of stray cats, ground squirrels, golphers, stray dogs and coyotes that live around me and never, not once, have they ever shown interest in chasing or hunting. I can definitely see that if you don't have access to small animals when socializing your dog at a very young age, prey drive might get a lot worse. My suggestion? As soon as your dog has had all its shots and its safe to go to dog parks, go. Especially hang out around small dogs. They'll learn to respect small animals and you'll never be picking mole bones out of dog poop.

The trouble spots for my dogs are separation anxiety, which is very tough to train for. My older one would get so frantic she'd actually injure herself on doors and crates, trying to get through them, even if I was only gone for 5 minutes. Getting a 2nd big dog has been somewhat of a magic bullet for me, they both keep each other entertained so separation anxiety has been much less of an issue for the past four months or so.

Another magic bullet is dog parks. I go just about every day for at least an hour. My dogs make friends, burn off energy, socialize with other dogs, play and learn to not be fearful of strangers and children. I think Tamaskans, because of their intelligence, do get destructive if they're under exercised. My dogs can just about run every dog at the park into the ground while they're still bouncing around, simply taking them for walks or runs is just not enough for them.

User avatar
firleymj
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:38 pm
Location: Gaithersburg, MD, USA
Contact:

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by firleymj » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:36 pm

OK, time to fess up.

Kona's a great dog, and very bright - but it does take a different technique than with any dog I've had - he's a VERY quick learner, but gets bored easily - so when we were doing basic training, it was 3-6 repetitions of a command, switch to another command, repeat less than 6 times, and keep rotating - he learned in "parallel" rather than "serially"

His early recall was problematic at best - he was way too curious to respond quickly - but with lots of praise (he's a pleaser) and a lot of work, he can be disengaged from about everything other than rodents. (Squirrel and chipmunk are just too tempting) Other than that, his "prey drive" is largely "play drive" He will reliably play bow and see if he can get geese, deer, and sheep to run. It's hard not to laugh out loud at his antics.

Like his father, he's got some separation anxiety - but we're slowly turning that into good off-leash manners - we've developed some body language that reminds him to keep with me even if he's not tethered - but I'd be foolish to trust him 100% of the time.

Hope this helps,
Mark
My goal in life is to be as good of a person as my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown
The greatest love is a mother's; then a dog's; then a sweetheart's. ~Polish Proverb

The human of Ch.(ARBA) and Ch.(KCUSA) Hawthorne James Watson (call name Kona)

Image
http://www.anthracitetamaskan.com

User avatar
chelle784
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:38 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by chelle784 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:56 pm

rhadament, your older one is an oslett pup right? Phoenix's sibling? I think with tamaskans, because they are so new and have different backgrounds, there is a genetic aspect in terms of trainability and recall. As an example, my oldest, Pepper, has stronger husky genes than Phoenix. We worked on recall training so much with Pepper and she will come back now but it was difficult. With Phoenix, we did no recall training and she just comes back.

Pepper has a prey drive to some extent (will want to chase squirrels) but loves strange cats even if they hiss at her. Phoenix is afraid of hissing cats but friendly cats are fine.

User avatar
rhadamant
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:45 am
Location: Cali, USA

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by rhadamant » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:26 am

chelle784 wrote:rhadament, your older one is an oslett pup right? Phoenix's sibling? I think with tamaskans, because they are so new and have different backgrounds, there is a genetic aspect in terms of trainability and recall. As an example, my oldest, Pepper, has stronger husky genes than Phoenix. We worked on recall training so much with Pepper and she will come back now but it was difficult. With Phoenix, we did no recall training and she just comes back.

Pepper has a prey drive to some extent (will want to chase squirrels) but loves strange cats even if they hiss at her. Phoenix is afraid of hissing cats but friendly cats are fine.
Echo is indeed an Oslett pup. I think because Sharayah was an added foundation dog with a non-husky temperament it probably heavily influenced that litter, but I love the result. I'm already using Echo as a volunteer therapy dog at the local VA (CGC & Therapy). She also is running agility courses start to finish with no instruction, maybe to compete eventually? Echo easily jumps over 4-5 foot jumps, I'll try to get some video recorded of this soon. If the massive El Nino doesn't disappoint I'll have her and her sister pulling sleds this upcoming winter too!

User avatar
chelle784
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:38 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Particular problem areas?

Post by chelle784 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:12 pm

rhadamant wrote:
chelle784 wrote:rhadament, your older one is an oslett pup right? Phoenix's sibling? I think with tamaskans, because they are so new and have different backgrounds, there is a genetic aspect in terms of trainability and recall. As an example, my oldest, Pepper, has stronger husky genes than Phoenix. We worked on recall training so much with Pepper and she will come back now but it was difficult. With Phoenix, we did no recall training and she just comes back.

Pepper has a prey drive to some extent (will want to chase squirrels) but loves strange cats even if they hiss at her. Phoenix is afraid of hissing cats but friendly cats are fine.
Echo is indeed an Oslett pup. I think because Sharayah was an added foundation dog with a non-husky temperament it probably heavily influenced that litter, but I love the result. I'm already using Echo as a volunteer therapy dog at the local VA (CGC & Therapy). She also is running agility courses start to finish with no instruction, maybe to compete eventually? Echo easily jumps over 4-5 foot jumps, I'll try to get some video recorded of this soon. If the massive El Nino doesn't disappoint I'll have her and her sister pulling sleds this upcoming winter too!
That is awesome! I also love the result and the pups that Sharayah produced. Between the 2 of mine, there is a definite difference in temperament, personality and trainability so I am not surprised that Sharayah's pups seem to be doing so well! We were thinking of doing the agility but decided on the scent detection route for both dogs (as both are not very high energy compared to some tams) so will probably start this at a later date.

Post Reply