Up and coming breeders discussion

All topics pertaining to mating and whelping, as well as upcoming / planned litters.
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Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:24 am

I thought at least I would start a thread here. If I participate, I want this to be a place where folks can come and ask questions and not get ridiculed or belittled. I know how daunting it is staring out...and really I hope I'm not the only one who participates because I really don't feel qualified. But for lack of someone in the breed with 20+ years of experience (like my mentor) I'll just do what I can and pay it forward.

I don't know everything. And like skinning a cat, there's more than one way so try not to get bent out of shape about doing everything you have read. My first bit of advice is: check your idealism at the door. There's no such thing as a perfect dog.

[edit: add]: My second piece of advice is: find a mentor! Find someone who is open to the idea of a new / rare breed (not all are!) and who has been in dogs for a long time. Hopefully that person is local.

So with that, welcome, and I look forward to lively discussions :D
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Beaverpup91 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:28 am

Thank you for creating this, Tracy! I am really, REALLY looking forward to becoming a breeder in the future, and I am enjoying learning everything that I can about every aspect of breeding. I can't wait to learn from the questions and advice offered by all on this new thread! :)

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by eyembrad » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:34 am

This will be great.

As far as a local mentor, do you suggest local like in the same town? Same state? Tarheel is kind of local, but not convenient for frequent visits.

Also, when looking for an experienced local breeder, what type of of breeds would be best? Sibes, GSD, arctic breed...these types of large breeds? Or just anyone who knows what they are doing?

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by balto13 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:44 am

Thank you for emphasizing the no belittling and ridiculing. So many questions and things to cover. I hope this is a fun, open minded, thread for newbies to get some info and insight

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Booma » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:13 am

Someone I hold training classes with breeds tollers, and I do nothing but ask him questions about temperament testing, structure testing, welping etc
I've also talked to someone a few times who breeds and rescues huskies who is quite interested in the tamaskan.
I even know someone who knows gsd and wss breeders and has her ear out for me.
The owner of my work plans to breed their ridgy girl (unfortunately - she has a crap temp), and if I have bonded with her enough that she won't eat me, I can help raise the litter.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Katlin » Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:11 am

I'm learning to become a groomer (been at it for a month and love it!) and the lady who's teaching me has been breeding labradors for 30 years. She'll tell me to do a kennel cut on a dog and I'll just be drilling her with questions like "what type of ID do you use on puppies for the first two weeks" and stuff like that. It's so fun to learn! I also know a husky breeder and two repro vets that will answer my questions when I ask them, but my teacher will ask what I think about something, which is nice.

Personally my plans are to import a female or look into a female outcross of some sort, then have one litter. Hopefully get another female, keep a male from the first female's litter, ect. I have all my names and everything picked out...call me eager lol! I also like the grooming career because I can pick my own hours, and when I move again I'll be starting a studio in my house to to 50/50 in store and in home...then hopefully a mobile grooming practice of some sort.

Wow sorry, I got off on a tangent. But I definitely like the fact that my teacher is so willing to help out and answer questions, she tells me things I would have never thought of. For example rather than using collars when they are baby puppies, you cut a small piece of fur off on a certain area, like right shoulder female, left flank male. Kinda neat, would have never thought of that.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by kellydejean » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:51 am

Thanks so much for making this thread! :)

I know it will be a great help for me since I'm a tad bit isolated from other Tam people, but I am very blessed to have a lot of working arctic breeders in my area to lean on and barraged with questions (so others know we have this resource open to us). I also started working at a boarding kennel and my boss has been invaluable via introducing me to breeders, trainers, and some other amazing dog people.

I planned on originally getting involved with a male, seeing how we really meshed with the pup and if we wanted to get involved with the breed long term (I wanted to give myself some time hands on since I also adore Brittanys, but wanted to get involved with a breed that fit my lifestyle and was starting out). Life threw a curveball of sorts and we got Clara (who I just couldn't say no to). I grew up with the showing and the stud end of it, but never had a litter in our house. I am really excited, but I know it isn't for everyone and also that visiting (even daily) is not the same as actually planning and handling everything that goes into having a litter. So, long term I don't know if we will get a male or keep on with females or mix it up like some of you brave brave people.

Clara is coming up quick on a year, so we will be starting/completing her health testing soon and if everything goes well we plan on joining the ranks.

My biggest challenge is going to be finding her a boyfriend without traversing the world. :P Then again, I'd love opinions on what some of our more experienced breeders (and the people coming in like me) think of trying AI with her, or an outcross? I still have a good bit of time and other things to get through first, but I've been toying with those as very distinct possibilities to bring in some genetics from elsewhere and finding the "perfect" match since in the grand scheme if I need to ship from North Carolina it will probably cost about the same as shipping from Sweden or Australia for us (for AI) and we have so many arctic breeds that could give possible outcross options that I'm a little intrigued. Yay Alaska? Otherwise I may just have to take a long vacation and visit some of you nice people. :D

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Booma » Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:26 pm

kellydejean wrote:Thanks so much for making this thread! :)

I know it will be a great help for me since I'm a tad bit isolated from other Tam people, but I am very blessed to have a lot of working arctic breeders in my area to lean on and barraged with questions (so others know we have this resource open to us). I also started working at a boarding kennel and my boss has been invaluable via introducing me to breeders, trainers, and some other amazing dog people.

I planned on originally getting involved with a male, seeing how we really meshed with the pup and if we wanted to get involved with the breed long term (I wanted to give myself some time hands on since I also adore Brittanys, but wanted to get involved with a breed that fit my lifestyle and was starting out). Life threw a curveball of sorts and we got Clara (who I just couldn't say no to). I grew up with the showing and the stud end of it, but never had a litter in our house. I am really excited, but I know it isn't for everyone and also that visiting (even daily) is not the same as actually planning and handling everything that goes into having a litter. So, long term I don't know if we will get a male or keep on with females or mix it up like some of you brave brave people.

Clara is coming up quick on a year, so we will be starting/completing her health testing soon and if everything goes well we plan on joining the ranks.

My biggest challenge is going to be finding her a boyfriend without traversing the world. :P Then again, I'd love opinions on what some of our more experienced breeders (and the people coming in like me) think of trying AI with her, or an outcross? I still have a good bit of time and other things to get through first, but I've been toying with those as very distinct possibilities to bring in some genetics from elsewhere and finding the "perfect" match since in the grand scheme if I need to ship from North Carolina it will probably cost about the same as shipping from Sweden or Australia for us (for AI) and we have so many arctic breeds that could give possible outcross options that I'm a little intrigued. Yay Alaska? Otherwise I may just have to take a long vacation and visit some of you nice people. :D

Isolated? I have to say, I think I beat you there ;) haha.
I think AI has got a bad rap so far, especially frozen semen - frozen has only been tried once in the tam world so far, and it didn't work. I plan to use AI quite a lot to make sure the australian gene pool does not get bottle necked.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Katlin » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:49 pm

Booma wrote: I think AI has got a bad rap so far, especially frozen semen - frozen has only been tried once in the tam world so far, and it didn't work. I plan to use AI quite a lot to make sure the australian gene pool does not get bottle necked.
Yes it did, he's sitting right beside me. Wylie was the product of frozen semen. That said it wasn't as effective as it could have been...fresh or chilled it always better and natural is the best.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Miran » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:57 am

Katlin wrote:
Booma wrote: I think AI has got a bad rap so far, especially frozen semen - frozen has only been tried once in the tam world so far, and it didn't work. I plan to use AI quite a lot to make sure the australian gene pool does not get bottle necked.
Yes it did, he's sitting right beside me. Wylie was the product of frozen semen. That said it wasn't as effective as it could have been...fresh or chilled it always better and natural is the best.
It was tried twice Kylie ;) One result is 1 pup. the other result is none pup

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by balto13 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:32 am

Miran wrote:
Katlin wrote:
Booma wrote: I think AI has got a bad rap so far, especially frozen semen - frozen has only been tried once in the tam world so far, and it didn't work. I plan to use AI quite a lot to make sure the australian gene pool does not get bottle necked.
Yes it did, he's sitting right beside me. Wylie was the product of frozen semen. That said it wasn't as effective as it could have been...fresh or chilled it always better and natural is the best.
It was tried twice Kylie ;) One result is 1 pup. the other result is none pup

4 times maybe? I think Tarheel tried it once didn't they? So 3 attempts no pups and 1 attempt is 1 pup. I see how and why people do and don't do it. I assume side by side is probably the most successful? I think Tracy said a breeder revived a line using old frozen semen. There are just so many factors (skill and knowledge of repro vet - Tracy and Teresas are the best ;) - when it's taken, how it's taken, shipped, ect) so I think that puts a lot of people off from spending the money to do it.

However it is probably good for countries like AUS who don't have the same accessibility to breeding dogs, or side by side 2 sire mating, ect. Of course this means the bitch has to go under so I would save it for special times and will always prefer natural but am not against AI :)

Does anybody have any good articles on AI vs natural?

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Katlin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:34 am

What do you mean the bitch has to go under? Under anesthetic? Because that's generally not true....most vets will do it while they are awake. I've assisted a few times and most bitches don't really mind it at all.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Wolfsbane » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:57 am

balto13 wrote: 4 times maybe? I think Tarheel tried it once didn't they? So 3 attempts no pups and 1 attempt is 1 pup.
I think the Sequoia x Wave litter was AI too? Remember something about him being too large/heavy for a natural mating with her...

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by balto13 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:03 pm

Katlin wrote:What do you mean the bitch has to go under? Under anesthetic? Because that's generally not true....most vets will do it while they are awake. I've assisted a few times and most bitches don't really mind it at all.
Canine Artificial Insemination Techniques:

Non-Surgical – Depositing of semen in the anterior vaginal canal at the cervical os.

No anesthetic is required.

If semen is frozen from the pellet process, and the bitch is bred at the right time

in her cycle, conception should occur.

Extended-fresh chilled semen or a fresh collection of semen is commonly used.



Surgical - Depositing of semen by injection directly into the uterus.

Requires surgical anesthetic plane.

Requires abdominal incision and exteriorizing the uterus to inject the semen.

Injection is usually made with a 3cc syringe and 25 gauge needle.

Usually frozen semen is used.



Non-Surgical Cervical Deposition – Depositing the semen into the cervical canal.

Requires tranquilization or anesthetization.

Cervix is cannulated and a small volume of semen is injected into the cervical

canal. Fresh, cooled or frozen semen can be used.


I know you said *most* but there is no guarantee you won't have to put her under. I assume it's a case by case basis?

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Katlin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:54 pm

I've never seen a bitch be sedated even, let alone anaesthetized :) So I'm not sure....I guess to answer you it must be case by case...and also vet preference.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:05 pm

eyembrad wrote:
As far as a local mentor, do you suggest local like in the same town? Same state? Tarheel is kind of local, but not convenient for frequent visits.

Also, when looking for an experienced local breeder, what type of of breeds would be best? Sibes, GSD, arctic breed...these types of large breeds? Or just anyone who knows what they are doing?
I would say the same town, yes. But certainly -- you can have more than one mentor! The more experience the better. Additionally, someone who might even be willing to help you whelp would be great. It can be a very stressful situation and knowing when to go to the vet may not be as clear as you think it might be ;)
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:09 pm

Katlin wrote:
Booma wrote: I think AI has got a bad rap so far, especially frozen semen - frozen has only been tried once in the tam world so far, and it didn't work. I plan to use AI quite a lot to make sure the australian gene pool does not get bottle necked.
Yes it did, he's sitting right beside me. Wylie was the product of frozen semen. That said it wasn't as effective as it could have been...fresh or chilled it always better and natural is the best.
No, we sent fresh chilled to Alice. :D
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:17 pm

Katlin wrote:What do you mean the bitch has to go under? Under anesthetic? Because that's generally not true....most vets will do it while they are awake. I've assisted a few times and most bitches don't really mind it at all.
For frozen AI, yes the bitch has to be put under because it is a surgical implantation. Transcervical for frozen is not recommended.

For fresh chilled, the bitch is awake and the semen is inserted through the vaginal canal.

Yes, many books have good information regarding AI including the three by Myra Savant-Harris which can be found on amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_ ... Caps%2C191

The big thing about AI is you really REALLY need a reproductive specialist. Not just a regular vet. You may have to travel some distance to find a reproductive vet--but why would you waste your money on a vet who doesn't do these procedures every day. Timing is absolutely critical with fresh chilled and especially with frozen. Not so much with side-by-side (which is what was done with Wave x Sequoia). The cooling or freezing process kills sperm--it's just what happens--so you have to have your bitches progesterone levels, etc., done so that the vet knows when to do the procedure. The window is larger for fresh chilled (24 hours) than it is for frozen (12 hours). The chilling / freezing process limits the lifetime of the sperm. Normally, sperm can live 5-7 days in the vaginal canal. But fresh chilled sperm, once thawed, only live 24 hours; and frozen only 12 hours. Even how the sperm is chilled / frozen will have an impact on numbers. If a sample is frozen or chilled too quickly, more sperm will die. Dr. Sondel actually has higher tech equipment than most canine reproductive facilities: he has tools that are used for bovine reproduction. Cattle are big business--and the science for cattle reproduction is being applied to dog breeding (which is great! if your vet has access to the equipment). Dr. Sondel can chill or freeze a sperm sample much slower than other facilities. The same goes for thawing it out. He gave a seminar for us in 2012 on canine reproduction at our Annual Breed Show. Interesting luncheon! :P

If you plan on importing / exporting sperm into the US you will need the services of a USDA certified vet. The import / export of sperm is a similar process to actually importing / exporting a live dog. Importing frozen can take a lot of planning. Dr. Sondel, from Madison, WI, advises that it can take a year of planning to get this right. He has a very high success rate for AI--so my other point is: don't be shy with your vet. Ask what their success rate is with AI (both fresh and frozen). Currently, fresh chilled is the standard for shipping across the US while frozen is necessary for international.

USDA link: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/regulations/vs/iregs/animals/ (Thanks to Reggie for this!)

But AI is fairly "advanced." Let me throw this "basic" thought out there just to get the discussion going:

If we, as breeders, are to move the breed forward (and not just produce puppies for pets), then one of the worst things we can do is breed the same dog to the same bitch over and over and over again. If you want to help the breed, you should breed your bitch to a different male each time. Why? To retain health, and even have any hope of improving it, you simply must maintain genetic diversity. If you breed your girl to the same stud each time, you are robbing the overall population of different gene combinations. So for those with the thought that they can have one male and one female and that's good enough, PLEASE reconsider! Do lots of reading with everything you can get your hands on: canine reproduction, canine structure, etc. etc. I have a short list of books I can recommend if you are interested. You need to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario when it comes to whelping. Yes, many of us have had great whelping experiences. Others have not. When the time comes, you owe it to your bitch to be prepared so you can save her life and the lives of her puppies. Even then, sometimes it is completely out of your hands (like our most recent litter). Are you strong enough to deal with this? Truly: breeding dogs is not for the feint of heart. And one of the best ways we can learn, aside from reading and having a mentor, is to SHARE with one another. Puppies die. That's a fact of life. We shouldn't hide that information from one another as if it is a reflection on how "good" or "bad" a breeder we are. There are so many things that can happen and if a post I make can help someone down the line then I'd rather have that than have someone lose an entire litter because of ignorance.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by balto13 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:14 pm

Thanks Hawthrone for all that info! This made another subject come up in my head, in the US breeding is generally frowned upon. We're a pretty big "adopt don't shop" and "a fixed pet is a happy pet" culture. I agree being able to have a good relationship with a repro vet is important, but what about just the regular vet that the dogs get seen for shots, exams, ect ect? How do you go about finding a "breeder friendly" vet that is in your area (or decent driving distance)?

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:18 pm

Hahaha! We had just moved to Harrisburg, PA from across the state four years ago. We just walked into vet offices and asked if there were any "breeder vets" on staff or how the vets felt about responsible dog breeders. (There is a difference, and I've found that vets respond to the word "responsible." It separates us from the BYB.)

Anyhow, we finally went into one vet office where a vet tech is a veteran breeder of 20 years, and the hospital director and vet were also pro responsible dog breeding. I use this vet for routine care: shots, exams, annual stuff. Even basic puppy care like initial vaccines, microchipping and puppy checks. They are 2 minutes from my house where the reproductive specialist is about 70 minutes away.

This is actually how I found my mentor, too: she's the vet tech in the office :D

In our former city, we were just using a vet office we had always used and through "hints" we finally figured out they were against all dog breeding. Period. THAT is the type of place you want to stay away from. After doing Freyja's preliminary hip testing, the vet came into the exam room to ask when we would like to spay Freyja :shock: This was before we had even submitted X-rays to OFA or BVA! I said, no way, she's a rare breed and too valuable as a dog to just jump to conclusions. Just be mindful of situations like this. Be your dog's advocate :D
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:03 pm

Another thing you can do to educate yourself are online classes. Here are two that some of us have already taken:

Canine Reproduction
https://www.coursera.org/course/theriogenology

and the many courses listed here:

Canine Genetics
http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org

Enjoy! :D

[edit: add (sorry, I keep thinking of exciting things to share with you folks!!!)] -- Cher Mundy and I have been putting together a spreadsheet of Tamaskan Dog information. This information is the result of a lot of folks who were generous enough to share what they had (Rahne!!!), or share their time in answering all of our endless questions (Miran, Tuuli, Karen, etc., etc.). The spreadsheet will be able to be loaded into a piece of pedigree software called Breedmate http://www.breedmate.com This software generates reports such as COI, ROI, etc. and you can do test breedings, etc. It is what we use in the genetics courses offered by the Institute of Canine Biology and is used by many, many breed clubs worldwide and is used by zoos, too (and lots of livestock breeders). Anyhow, it's relatively cheap as far as software goes and if anyone is interested and becomes a registered breeder I think we would be happy to share the database file with you. We also used pawvillage.com to go deeper into the dogs behind the Tamaskan, as well as wolfdog.org, too. We could go back further still but we will see what the course instructor has to say about what we need to do further.

From here, Carol B (course instructor) will take the database and do a breed analysis for us. We hope to eventually secure her or one of her colleagues as a breed advisor. There are right and wrong ways to go about breeding dogs (to retain genetic diversity, for example, you do not cull breeding stock harshly) if we want to retain health.

Anyhow, I find this very exciting and we currently have over 700 dogs in the database. :D Neat! For those who helped and are already registered breeders, we plan on sharing the file with you shortly after we work out a few more bugs.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by eyembrad » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:54 am

So what is the first canine reproduction book we should buy? The Canine Reproduction course is not being offered at the moment, but the course's website recommends:
  • -The Dog Breeder’s Guide to Successful Breeding and Health Management (ISBN:1-4160-3139-1).
    -Canine Reproduction by Phyllis Holst (ISBN 978-1-57779-114-0)
What do you all recommend we start with...aside from the courses?

Brad

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:25 pm

A short list of books:

Hastings, Pat & Erin Ann Rouse. 2004. Another Piece of the Puzzle: Puppy Development.
Hastings, Pat. Puppy Puzzle (DVD)
Hastings, Pat. 2005. Tricks of the Trade: From Best Intentions to Best in Show.
Hoist, Phyllis A. 2011. Canine Reproduction: The Breeder’s Guide.
Lyon, McDowell. 2002. Dog in Action: A Study of Anatomy and Locomotion as Applying to All Breeds. Dogwise Classics.
Savant-Harris, Myra. 2005. Puppy Intensive Care: A Breeders Guide to Care of Newborn Puppies.
Savant-Harris, Myra. 2006. Canine Reproduction and Whelping: A Dog Breeder’s Guide.
Savant-Harris, Myra. 2010. Puppy Intensive Care: A Breeders Guide to Care of Newborn Puppies.
Trotter, Patricia Craige. 2009. Born to Win: Breed to Succeed.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by ASaroka » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:38 am

That quick list is a great help! I have a book or two on breeding, but they're all encompassing. I'm excited to start reading those!

I have a lot of books on dog training as I'm hedging into that field and taking steps to enter Animal Behavioral College to be a dog trainer. Training and breeding for the betterment of a breed has always been a dream of mine that I can't wait to make a reality.

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by hannahmeansgrace » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:49 pm

I hope this is the right thread to post this under... but we are looking forward to breeding our dog, Halifax, in the future, pending test results and proper scores. (She's out of Oslett's Sharayah and Sylvaen's Pika.) I've read a lot on this forum and on the TDR site, but have been unable to find if there are specific dates that the TDR prefers testing to be done. On the database, I've seen how it mentions at what age a dog was tested, but I'm not sure when is the optimal time.

Also, I saw online that the TDR site specifically lists Neogen as the place to get DNA testing. But I've seen breeders post on the forum their MyDNA results, so is that an alternative to Neogen or an additional thing?

Thank you in advance!
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Sylvaen » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:06 pm

Of the required (mandatory) "bare minimum" health tests:
Hip & Elbow x-rays can be done at 12+ months old (though 18-24 months old tends to give a more accurate result for the final score).
Eye exam can be done at 12+ months old and then, ideally, every year after that (annually) - for now just one eye exam at 12+ months old is required.
DNA profile (via Neogen) can be done at any time.
DM testing (unless Clear By Parentage) can be done at any time.
http://www.tamaskan-dog.org/registry/be ... reeder.php

The MyDogDNA PASS is an optional extra along with any other additional health screening... :)
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by hannahmeansgrace » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:30 am

Thanks, Debby! You're the best!
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:33 pm

No problem! :D
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by hannahmeansgrace » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:35 pm

I realized there's another question I need to ask. Since Halifax's dam, Sharayah, is an outcross, I'll need a dog behaviorist to certify Halifax's temperament, too. Is there a particular behavior test required by the TDR? Sorry if I'm asking a question that may seem obvious to others, but I've been scanning the forum and haven't been able to find a specific name...

Thanks!
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by arianwenarie » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:02 pm

hannahmeansgrace wrote:I realized there's another question I need to ask. Since Halifax's dam, Sharayah, is an outcross, I'll need a dog behaviorist to certify Halifax's temperament, too. Is there a particular behavior test required by the TDR? Sorry if I'm asking a question that may seem obvious to others, but I've been scanning the forum and haven't been able to find a specific name...

Thanks!
Thanks for asking. I have been curious about this for some time as well.

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Re: Up and Coming Breeder's Discussion

Post by firleymj » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:50 pm

SWM (Studly Wolf-grey Male) ISO SWF (Suitable Whelping Female).
Tamaskan preferred, but will consider outcrosses.

Me: 68cm tall at the shoulder, (27 inches) - 36kg (82 pounds). Almost 3YO.

Almond shaped brown eyes, well-defined stop, short fuzzy ears. Powerful pastern and hocks. Thick double coat, blown annually. Well behaved but still with a spark of mischief. More lover than fighter. Health tested, results available for serious inquiries. Not afraid of work pulling the right sled with you. Love long walks (romantic or otherwise), good food (at least plenty of food), and cuddly naps.

Bragging rights: First double champion of my breed [KCUSA and ARBA].

You: Real intact bitch. Preferably small ears, leggy, good disposition.

Object: A fine litter of pups!

Allergies: Wheat.
Turn ons: Playtime.
Turn offs: Dating my relatives.
Photos available. Interested?

E-mail via KonasDad@AnthraciteTamaskan.com or call 240-415-TAM1 (8261)
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The human of Ch.(ARBA) and Ch.(KCUSA) Hawthorne James Watson (call name Kona)

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Katlin » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:05 pm

arianwenarie wrote:
hannahmeansgrace wrote:I realized there's another question I need to ask. Since Halifax's dam, Sharayah, is an outcross, I'll need a dog behaviorist to certify Halifax's temperament, too. Is there a particular behavior test required by the TDR? Sorry if I'm asking a question that may seem obvious to others, but I've been scanning the forum and haven't been able to find a specific name...

Thanks!
Thanks for asking. I have been curious about this for some time as well.
Actually same... :lol:
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by hannahmeansgrace » Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:47 pm

Not to distract from the question about behavior testing (see above!)--but I have met a Czech wolfdog owner in the U.S. who might be interested in introducing their male as a Tamaskan outcross. I know that there was concern in Europe over that same issue, but from what I've read on the forum, the North American Tamaskans could use fresh outcrosses. I'm *guessing* from the inclusion of outcross litters with Lupo and Yukon this year that the TDR wouldn't be opposed to fresh blood of the CZW variety, but I might be wrong... Anyone know if this would be a good idea?
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Katlin » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:10 am

I'm not opposed to it, but I live in a province that allows them :) There are a few states that don't allow wolfdogs of any kind, which I think has been what has "turned off" a lot of people from the CWD.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by hannahmeansgrace » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:21 am

Right. I know it gets dicier because of the wolf content. But supposedly the same rule applies to CSW as Tamaskans--they're technically considered a breed, so they're not "wolves." (CSW even have a stronger leg to stand on than Tamaskans in that regard, because the AKC considers them a breed, and I read that AKC doesn't give breed status to anything they consider "wolf mixes.")

I thought that more of the concern was about CSW temperaments, but I could be wrong...
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by arianwenarie » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:06 pm

hannahmeansgrace wrote:I realized there's another question I need to ask. Since Halifax's dam, Sharayah, is an outcross, I'll need a dog behaviorist to certify Halifax's temperament, too. Is there a particular behavior test required by the TDR? Sorry if I'm asking a question that may seem obvious to others, but I've been scanning the forum and haven't been able to find a specific name...

Thanks!
Still curious about this...unless I missed the answer?

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:40 pm

hannahmeansgrace wrote:I realized there's another question I need to ask. Since Halifax's dam, Sharayah, is an outcross, I'll need a dog behaviorist to certify Halifax's temperament, too. Is there a particular behavior test required by the TDR? Sorry if I'm asking a question that may seem obvious to others, but I've been scanning the forum and haven't been able to find a specific name...

Thanks!
We have specific forms for outcross puppies to be filled out in the independent Structure and Temperament tests they have to go through. When your ready you can contact me katelyn@tamaskan-dog.org and I can send you the forms.

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by knox07 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:50 am

Is anyone familiar with the recent breeding over at Adawe Tamaskan? I was looking into getting a puppy from them but i havent seen them spoken about much on this forum. Does anyone have any thoughts/communications with this breeder?

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Katlin » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:40 am

Courtney is super nice and I've chatted with her a fair amount. I have a dog that's father (darwin) is related to their female. Kova is also a gorgeous dog. Seems good to me but I'd definitely contact them yourself.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by knox07 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:09 pm

Katlin wrote:Courtney is super nice and I've chatted with her a fair amount. I have a dog that's father (darwin) is related to their female. Kova is also a gorgeous dog. Seems good to me but I'd definitely contact them yourself.
I have been speaking with her over the past several days. I was just curious to see if anyone on this forum has had any discussions with them as I haven't seen them talked about on here. Thank you for your feedback

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by hannahmeansgrace » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:10 pm

I was on MyDogDNA.com trying to order the DNA test, but they don't ship tests to the United States or allow for U.S. billing addresses. (!) I think it has to do with a deal with Mars Veterinary (they wrote a press release about how they were partnering to reach the U.S.).

I'd like to test Halifax, and I had really looked forward to using MyDogDNA since other tamaskans are already in that system (including her dad, Sylvaen Pikachu). Does anyone have any alternative dog dna tests that they recommend?

[EDIT: I asked in my first post if anyone had tried Wisdom Panel, but since I see that they don't cover dogs with European heritage...that's a no-go. Also, they don't go into detail on genetic traits like coat color.]
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Booma » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:15 am

mydog are partnered with wisdom panel in the US now, so you have to order through them instead of mydog.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by hannahmeansgrace » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:01 pm

Gotcha. Thank you. Looks like it's this test.... http://www.wisdompanel.com/optimal_selection/
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Hawthorne » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:00 am

hannahmeansgrace wrote: I thought that more of the concern was about CSW temperaments, but I could be wrong...
That was my understanding--in particular--that the CSV in the United States has a poor temperament compared to the same breed in Europe. We (we being the US Tamaskan Dog Club) had also tried a few times to introduce ourselves to the CSV community here in the US and got very hostile responses. So, my concern would be that 1. this person has a pedigreed dog at all. and 2. that he could in fact be trying to sabotage the Tamaskan. That community hates us and I can't figure out why other than they are the kind of dog people that turn me off to pure bred dogs: the elitist kind. I was nothing but polite and kind and they jumped all over me. I have no interest in adding CSV. From what I've seen--they're bred for boarder patrol work quite a bit here in the US and are not suitable as family pets. In my mind--that's all we need is to have wolf looking dogs with poor temperaments.

I think there are better options out there. With all due respect... :D
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by arianwenarie » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:40 pm

Hawthorne wrote:That was my understanding--in particular--that the CSV in the United States has a poor temperament compared to the same breed in Europe. We (we being the US Tamaskan Dog Club) had also tried a few times to introduce ourselves to the CSV community here in the US and got very hostile responses. So, my concern would be that 1. this person has a pedigreed dog at all. and 2. that he could in fact be trying to sabotage the Tamaskan. That community hates us and I can't figure out why other than they are the kind of dog people that turn me off to pure bred dogs: the elitist kind. I was nothing but polite and kind and they jumped all over me. I have no interest in adding CSV. From what I've seen--they're bred for boarder patrol work quite a bit here in the US and are not suitable as family pets. In my mind--that's all we need is to have wolf looking dogs with poor temperaments.

I think there are better options out there. With all due respect... :D
This might be out of place, but since we're on the topic of outcrosses, what if some folks were interested in raising a potential puppy for outcross purposes? Where would we start to look? Are there certain breeds or mixes that we should be looking into?

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Booma » Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:08 pm

I've taken a risk and got a malamute x gsd that I am hoping to have approved. she turned one last month and recently had her hips and elbows scored. she has some more tests to go before I put my application in though.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by melly » Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:05 pm

oeh, exciting! good luck Booma!

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by rosemont » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:32 pm

Hawthorne wrote:That community hates us and I can't figure out why other than they are the kind of dog people that turn me off to pure bred dogs: the elitist kind. I was nothing but polite and kind and they jumped all over me. I have no interest in adding CSV. From what I've seen--they're bred for boarder patrol work quite a bit here in the US and are not suitable as family pets. In my mind--that's all we need is to have wolf looking dogs with poor temperaments.
I honestly don't understand why the CSV people are so abrasive but they are actually awful in my experience lol. I recently asked what health tests a CSV breeder (possibly one of the only ones in the UK?) does and the initial response from someone who was purchasing a puppy from them was 'just DM I think, they're a hardy breed and well bred so don't need [the tests]' and from then on I was basically attacked for asking 'vague questions' lol and then even the breeder jumped in making out that I was questioning their integrity (they do hips, eyes and dm if you wanted to know). Someone asked about Wolfalike breeds on the same page and they all were in uproar about NIs, Utes, Tams etc and how they'd never touch that breed and then they were all saying how it was funny how these breeds didn't have a solid standard until they added CSV to the mix and we're trying to 'steal' their breed. It's honestly so juvenile, I'd never want to own one of those dogs after my experiences with the owners.

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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Katlin » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:36 am

rosemont wrote:It's honestly so juvenile, I'd never want to own one of those dogs after my experiences with the owners.
Agreed, I found the same thing.
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Re: Up and coming breeders discussion

Post by Morgan » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:08 pm

Hi all,

not sure if this forum is still active (also wondering how to turn on notifications if someone posts?) or is it better to just use FB? anyway i'm a brand new (or rather aspiring) breeder. My male, Kaya, (from Sylvaen Zora/Ninja outcross) just had hips/elbows done - they look terrific according to the vet but have to be officially scored. Eyes next week. Conformation and temperament this saturday (will be done by my breeding mentor, a well-known dog behaviorist/trainer/breeder named Gayle Watkins). Unfortunately she's moving to NC...so I'll need more help.

So - 2 things. One is that Kaya (should he pass his tests) will be available as a stud in the US with totally fresh genes. (He is Tessen's brother - she is ready to go as well - hope that happens soon!) He is a total sweety and is well formed but does carry a copy of the white spotting gene. (of course so did Two-socks from Dances with Wolves...and he was the real thing!).

Second - there's some time to go yet but my girl Luna will be 9 months shortly and is creeping toward being old enough to test.

So - thanks in advance and i'm slowly reading through all the posts here.

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