FRAUD & DECEPTION by Blustag/Blufawn

Info about scams and false advertisements relating to the sale of Tamaskan Dogs (or fake "Tamaskans").
BrettThomas
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by BrettThomas » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:48 pm

I'm wondering if I should just get a pup from RPK at this point. This seems like an unholy mess over here.

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:04 pm

BrettThomas wrote:I'm wondering if I should just get a pup from RPK at this point. This seems like an unholy mess over here.
this mess will get sorted (steps have already been taken)... he will always be a puppy mill and no matter what happens else where, puppy mills should not have public support ;)

If you don't want to hang round hear, there are other options besides RPK... Just saying...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by Nahani » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:18 pm

What she said....plus...

There are a lot of webs that we are untangling at the moment but the deadwood and the cheats who have deceived us are gone for good now. Hopefully that stands us in good stead for the future with no mystery, no lies and no deceit. We are all doing our best to provide a good, honest and open service to people so if you hang around a while you might just be in the best place for a great puppy. Tarheel, Hawthorne, and the other USA breeders associated with us right here are your best bets for reliable information and proper conduct from a breeder, that much I can GUARANTEE.
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by Tarheel » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:01 pm

BrettThomas wrote:I'm wondering if I should just get a pup from RPK at this point. This seems like an unholy mess over here.
Why would you consider bying from a Puppy Mill? It has been reported that this kennel has over 100 dogs used for breeding. They conduct no health testing that can be shown. Their "American Tamaskans" are mated by whoever impregnates the female, with no way of determining what male or males sired the litter. They have known wolfdogs intermixed with the American Tamaskans.
If you are seriously considering RPK, I suggest you check their BBB Rating, and read the breeder reviews at http://www.yelp.com/biz/right-puppy-kennel-salisbury
If you still are wishing to by from that kennel, please do yourself a favor and ask the hard questions such as copies of the parents health records and hip scores. If they provide you with this, verify the records by checking with Vets Office they use for their dogs and the OFFA.
You may be able to get a puppy right away, have it shipped directly to you, but what are you going to do if your pup is not what was promised and you need to return it? You are buying a dog that you will have for 10-15 years, are you ready to make a committment with the potential to have life long health issues with your dog?
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by Booma » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:15 pm

Brett you should also look up the Facebook group "tamaskan truth 2.0" it's a group owners of rpk dogs have made to talk about their experiences with their dogs and with Kevin. You can see posts, but they only let you join I you own a rpk dog. I'd pm an admin of the page if I were you and tell them what you are considering. Maybe they will let you join then.
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by Tiantai » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:05 am

BrettThomas wrote:I'm wondering if I should just get a pup from RPK at this point. This seems like an unholy mess over here.
While I'm not here to proselytize you, I agree with John. RPK has been a big mess 1000x than what has happened with the TDR and many people have been attacked by RPK for simply raising awareness about his rubbish service. If you decide to in the end, it's your choice, but I recommend you ask yourself some important questions. A few people I know who once defended RPK are also now speaking out against him after the way he treated them and they have exposed a lot of it.
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:09 am

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
BrettThomas wrote:I'm wondering if I should just get a pup from RPK at this point. This seems like an unholy mess over here.
A few people I know who once defended RPK are also now speaking out against him after the way he treated them and they have exposed a lot of it.
Kind like lynn... but the difference is that when her mess has been cleared away, it will make room for healthier dogs with more information about them available and a stronger community.
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by Tiantai » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:19 pm

TerriHolt wrote: Kind like lynn... but the difference is that when her mess has been cleared away, it will make room for healthier dogs with more information about them available and a stronger community.
Actually I supported all the reputable breeders in the TDR until recently. I slipped into neutral ground when the crazy infight broke out and then after everything was resolved and the truth came out I now support Debby, John, Rahne, Katelyn, Line, Amit, and Karsten. I don't care anymore if we never get a straight answer about what happened to Foxy (if she even existed). Neveda is the real mother and as long as that pedigree has been fixed I don't think grabbing a sample of the mysterious Foxy's DNA is necessary anymore.
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by arianwenarie » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:22 pm

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:I don't care anymore if we never get a straight answer about what happened to Foxy (if she even existed). Neveda is the real mother and as long as that pedigree has been fixed I don't think grabbing a sample of the mysterious Foxy's DNA is necessary anymore.
Agreed. Of course, if all the "Pig Litter" dogs went through DNA parentage test and all of them came back as Nevada being the dam, then that's undeniable proof right there.

If only a couple of the dogs from the "Pig Litter" were tested, then I'm assuming that's still some wiggle room for people to argue Scidera/MMI "messed up". :?

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by Rahne » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:37 pm

Just in case there are still people who believe Fox exists....

The 2007 'Fire' litter (Tumanra x Dingo):
Blustag Forest Fire
Blustag Forest of Flames
Blustag Firebird
Blustag Firefly
Blustag Fire Flame
Blustag Ring of Fire

Blustag Fire Fox at Sugalba
Firelitter2.jpg
Firelitter1.jpg
hmm, 7 names and only 6 pups on the pictures?? Also look at how light colored all these pups are...
Here are two adult 'Fire' dogs:
firelitter3.jpg
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:55 pm

Interestingly odd isn't it... It all seems pointless. the making up of dogs, the lying... Thats why i believed her for so long, i didn't see what she would have to gain from it all...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by Tiantai » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:46 pm

Rahne, I just noticed that you sceenshotted my kid brother Cory's comment in one of the photos above. :lol:

And yeah I don't see a 7th pup anywhere in the photos either. Unless you include the deerhounds, but those are obviously not related. I wonder what lies Lynn would have made up next. I mean I did once saw the post "thanking Sugalba" for coming clean about what happened to Foxy. But then the moment we all started asking for further details they took it off their status and requested people not to spread anymore rumours. NONE of the legitimate questions asked looked anything like "rumours"! :evil:

I don't even visit that old facebook page anymore. Simply asking them any crucial questions like we all did at one point after they splintered off will either get us all blocked or get mistranslated as "trying to stir up the pot". Terri mentioned getting banned before in another topic if I remember correctly.
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:46 pm

Rahne, you mind if i use these? Just wanna check they are a 'free for all' :D
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by Rahne » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:33 pm

TerriHolt wrote:Rahne, you mind if i use these? Just wanna check they are a 'free for all' :D
I don't mind ;)

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:30 pm

Thank you... :D
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by Rahne » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:17 pm

We recently DNA tested 3 females from the Heidi x Jackal litter, born November 2010.

* Blustag Bridge of Sighs (Solve)
* Blustag Sunsprite (Cheyenne)
* Blustag Sunflare (Kira)

The DNA markers of these 3 females were compared to their dam Heidi, and their sire Jackal. They all 100% matched with Heidi, but did NOT match with Jackal. Conclusion: Jackal is NOT the father of these 3 females.

The DNA markers of these offspring were then compared to the other breeding males in the Tamaskan DNA Database, and all 3 matched with Rann (Shadow of Yakama). Conclusion: Rann IS the father of these 3 females.

Heidi was double-mated by Blustag, first to Rann and afterwards to Jackal. Blustag did not do any DNA testing to confirm parentage, just listed Jackal as the sire of this litter and told the new owners that Jackal was the sire, as listed on the pedigrees they received.

It is possible that some of the other pups from this litter were sired by Jackal, but it is also possible the whole litter was sired by Rann. If anyone owns a puppy from this litter and would like to know the true sire of their dog, by conducting DNA Profiling and parentage analysis, please contact John Bannow.

This is the 4th litter that we have discovered to have multiple sires, thanks to DNA parentage analysis:

Nevada x Dingo (October 2009) - one or more pups turned out to be sired by Jackal.
Zuul x Jackal (May 2010) - one or more pups turned out to be sired by Riker.
Heidi x Jackal (November 2010) - one or more pups turned out to be sired by Rann.
Jodie x Jackal (February 2012) - one or more pups turned out to be sired by Dingo.

It is entirely possible that there are more litters like these, as we are now discovering that double matings are a somewhat regular occurrence for Blustag/Blufawn. If a bitch is double-mated, regardless of whether the double mating was intentional or accidental, breeders should DNA test ALL the resulting offspring to determine the exact sire for each individual puppy of that litter.

Reputable breeders strive to ensure that all pedigrees are accurate and never simply resort to making guesses, which could result in incorrect documentation or, worse, planned matings by future breeders, which are actually much more closely related in reality than they appear on paper. Clearly this could negatively impact the individual bloodlines, as well as the genetic health and genepool of the breed as a whole. This highlights why DNA profiling PRIOR to mating is so vital, and why it is a requirement for all TDR breeders.

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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:24 pm

Rahne wrote:
torriarno wrote:2011 September 6th Rann mated Zuull. puppies due around 8th november or either way by a few days.....
I see though on the litter data base that heidi had a litter on the 1st nov

Now Rann was mated to Heidi..my date is obscure sorry as packed somewhere waiting to move...i am using my diary and your data base ..on litters...sorry will still search for it....
Thanks Pat! Zuul never gave birth, or so we were told. Heidi had a litter with Jackal, the 'Rose' litter.

... another free stud use? I guess it's impossible to check up on that Zuul litter that never was... Things that are coming to light do not surprise me in the slightest, just make me sad... sad for the owners, sad for the mistake and sad for the dogs she has left...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by Tatzel » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:38 pm

Ugh, such a disgrace!
So much comming to light now...
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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by arianwenarie » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:15 pm

Tatzel wrote:Ugh, such a disgrace!
So much comming to light now...
Look on the brighter side: at least now, we're armed with knowledge instead of blindly going by 'someone's' word. ;)

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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by AZDehlin » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:29 pm

I am not surprised... but I think this is a good thing as this means there are more Rann pups in breeding homes.

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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by Valravn » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:34 pm

I am glad that there are more Rann pups out there. I'm just concerned about the failing hips on one. If they didn't come from Jackal then…? :|
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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:05 am

Valravn wrote:I am glad that there are more Rann pups out there. I'm just concerned about the failing hips on one. If they didn't come from Jackal then…? :|
Even though one dog from a litter has passing hips, the rest in the litter may have failing hips. Rann's BVA score is 6. We don't know for sure what Heidi's official score is...for all we know, her score could be failing and Lynn put a passing score on her papers. Plus, I remember looking at some hip scores for Utonagans on their forum (and pedigrees) and that paperwork did indicate some dogs having failing hips that were still bred from - Rann and/or Heidi (dam side) may share common ancestors as those who had failing hip scores and, genetics being a funny thing, could have passed those on. In short, it's difficult to say which parent or dog in the pedigree passed on bad hips to the one dog who had failing hips in the Rose litter.

I think a better question to ask is: How many Heidi puppies have failing hip scores? Unfortunately, all the Heidi pups (with exception of the pups confirmed from 'Rose' litter) have Jackal in their pedigree (Heidi/Bodie, Heidi/Jackal). At this time, the Heidi/Bodie litter is too young to have their hips tested as they just turned a year old. Perhaps we'll have more data next year once they're old enough to have their hips scored. ;)

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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by Nino » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:26 pm

1 failing score and 3 passing ones.

(I still want to have another specialist looking at the hips because I have looked at ones that are scored only ca. 10 points worse but looks terrible compared to Sølves
- I have however decided that even if Sølve's hips should be mis-scored I will no be breeding from her due to her temper not being perfect and I want to be able to do the best breeding that I possibly can)
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New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Litter

Post by Misaya » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:52 pm

Statement on behalf of the Tamaskan Dog Register Committee:

DNA testing has recently shown that Nana (Shadowolf Skyhope at Blustag) is not the dam of two puppies from the Flower litter, namely Blustag Bearberry (Ravi) and Blustag Mountain Holly (Luna). There may be others but as these have yet to be DNA tested, no official proof is currently available. Although at this point in time we are unable to prove conclusively who the real dam is, evidence points to Devon (Blustag Lumikoira), a malamute owned by Blustag. It is therefore proposed to list this malamute as the dam on the pedigrees of the dogs in question. If at any point in time conclusive information is available this will be made public and the pedigrees altered to take this into account.
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Re: New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Li

Post by Tatzel » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:46 pm

Wow, things like these just keep popping up :c
So basically she sold mixed puppies as pure Tams, lame.
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Re: New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Li

Post by arianwenarie » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:50 pm

Tatzel wrote:Wow, things like these just keep popping up :c
So basically she sold mixed puppies as pure Tams, lame.
Something like that... Nana is a pure Sibe, so the flower litter is an out cross litter anyway. The Blues just took advantage of this and used an unapproved dam and passed them off as Nana's pups. Bad move...

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Re: New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Li

Post by Tiantai » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:23 pm

I've had doubts about Nanna being Ravi's dam from the beginning when I first saw a head-shot photo of him here on the forum. He looks more Malamute-mix which made me suspect that Devon might be the correct dam but I didn't say anything because I did not want to make judgements but I am glad that at least we now know that the suspicion everyone had was precise!
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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by soph » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:35 am

Our boy is from the rose litter and we are very concerned with everything that we are reading,

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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by arianwenarie » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:35 pm

soph wrote:Our boy is from the rose litter and we are very concerned with everything that we are reading,
I'd suggest contacting your TDR rep to get a DNA profiling kit to get your boy DNA profiled to confirm who his parents are. ;)

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Re: New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Li

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:44 pm

I knew it, I knew it! :P
Ravi looks different than Zephyr.

Hmm...conversely, then: a malamute litter was sold as pure malamute when in fact they were part Tam if Jackal is the father of those pups, too. I am assuming that there were more than two pups in that litter--but maybe not?

Is Blustag well known in the malamute and sib worlds? If so, what is her reputation there? Not looking for bad words--just thinking out loud.
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Re: New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Li

Post by Vajente » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:48 pm

not only in looks but his temperament is very different too

there were 10 pups in the flower litter, only 4 were Nana's (Zephyr, Leia, Alucard and Bandit)

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Re: New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Li

Post by Tiantai » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:49 am

Vajente wrote:not only in looks but his temperament is very different too

there were 10 pups in the flower litter, only 4 were Nana's (Zephyr, Leia, Alucard and Bandit)
Was Sequoia tested? I'm sure she is a legitimate daughter of Nana but just wondering anyways
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Re: New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Li

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:49 am

Tiantai wrote:
Vajente wrote:not only in looks but his temperament is very different too

there were 10 pups in the flower litter, only 4 were Nana's (Zephyr, Leia, Alucard and Bandit)
Was Sequoia tested? I'm sure she is a legitimate daughter of Nana but just wondering anyways
Sequoia is a NannaxJackal pup, but from 2010 (earlier litter). The flower litter was born in 2011.

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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by Nino » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:39 pm

soph wrote:Our boy is from the rose litter and we are very concerned with everything that we are reading,
Then you might be interested in knowing that Sølve was put to sleep in May..
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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by Tiantai » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:00 pm

Exactly how many pups were in this litter?

(I can't see the database now because Rahne is reworking on it but has left the forum)
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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:14 pm

Tiantai wrote:Exactly how many pups were in this litter?

(I can't see the database now because Rahne is reworking on it but has left the forum)
I think it was 8 pups from the Rose litter...? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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Hawthorne
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Re: New Information regarding the parentage of the Flower Li

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:56 pm

Tiantai wrote:
Vajente wrote:not only in looks but his temperament is very different too

there were 10 pups in the flower litter, only 4 were Nana's (Zephyr, Leia, Alucard and Bandit)
Was Sequoia tested? I'm sure she is a legitimate daughter of Nana but just wondering anyways
Remember all breeding dogs are DNA profiled. So yes, Sequoia has been tested. :D
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Nino
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Re: The 'Rose' litter: Heidi x Jackal (IMPORTANT!)

Post by Nino » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:23 pm

arianwenarie wrote:
Tiantai wrote:Exactly how many pups were in this litter?

(I can't see the database now because Rahne is reworking on it but has left the forum)
I think it was 8 pups from the Rose litter...? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
9 pups..
>> Nino <<
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