Breeding combinations - health issues list

All topics pertaining to health and diseases that may affect your Tamaskan Dog, as well as treatment.
User avatar
HiTenshi16
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Princeton, TX US
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:29 am

eyembrad wrote:
Wolfsbane wrote: Great! :)

This combination is now listed twice (the Crypto was already listed but now Sawyer also suffers from Epilepsy.
Can you please edit your post above to clarify the registered name of Sawyer with epilepsy so there is no confusion as to which Sawyer has epilepsy. It is not Tarheel Wild at Heart (Sawyer).
This Sawyer is Blufawn Easter Miracle from Alba Zuul at Blufawn (Zuul) x Blustag Desert Orchid at Saxon (Odin)
Image

eyembrad
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:41 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by eyembrad » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:21 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:
eyembrad wrote:
Wolfsbane wrote: Great! :)

This combination is now listed twice (the Crypto was already listed but now Sawyer also suffers from Epilepsy.
Can you please edit your post above to clarify the registered name of Sawyer with epilepsy so there is no confusion as to which Sawyer has epilepsy. It is not Tarheel Wild at Heart (Sawyer).
This Sawyer is Blufawn Easter Miracle from Alba Zuul at Blufawn (Zuul) x Blustag Desert Orchid at Saxon (Odin)
I certainly know which "Sawyer" is being referred to, but others may not know which Sawyer, as I now have a Sawyer too.

I think we all should make a conscious effort to use registered names, along with call names if desired to avoid such confusion.

Brad

User avatar
HiTenshi16
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Princeton, TX US
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:40 pm

My response was not directed at you, but to the general public who did not know, sorry for the confusion.
I do agree when it comes to discussions like this, that registered names should be used.
Image

CheyenneSunset
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:50 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by CheyenneSunset » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:01 pm

Wolfsbane wrote:
CheyenneSunset wrote:Hi I own Harwarden Cheyenne who's parents were Kwakiuth and blustag star dust both at Alba and his hips have gone... Happened overnight ... One night he raced me upstairs I his usual "puppy" fashion and next day could hardly move... It's got so bad he won't even jump up to bark at the postman -his usual daily treat!!! Is this a known issue from this parent pairing?
Saira
I'm a bit confused... :?
What do you mean with his hips are gone? He can't use them anymore? And it happened overnight? Doesn't sound like any hip issues I'm familiar with. Did you take him to the vet to get a diagnoses?
He is at the vet later today I will update... He struggles to raise from lying down, is unable to run, although he tries and will not stay standing for any length of time... When he goes to lay down he just drops down rather than how he did previously ...and yes huge change in him literally overnight... He has always raced the stairs to get to door first so other night was no different to normal however I had to help him up Wednesday am to go outside to toilet and still do sometimes although other times he does get himself up but its a struggle... As I say Chey is at vet today so will update.

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:05 pm

CheyenneSunset wrote:
Wolfsbane wrote:
CheyenneSunset wrote:Hi I own Harwarden Cheyenne who's parents were Kwakiuth and blustag star dust both at Alba and his hips have gone... Happened overnight ... One night he raced me upstairs I his usual "puppy" fashion and next day could hardly move... It's got so bad he won't even jump up to bark at the postman -his usual daily treat!!! Is this a known issue from this parent pairing?
Saira
I'm a bit confused... :?
What do you mean with his hips are gone? He can't use them anymore? And it happened overnight? Doesn't sound like any hip issues I'm familiar with. Did you take him to the vet to get a diagnoses?
He is at the vet later today I will update... He struggles to raise from lying down, is unable to run, although he tries and will not stay standing for any length of time... When he goes to lay down he just drops down rather than how he did previously ...and yes huge change in him literally overnight... He has always raced the stairs to get to door first so other night was no different to normal however I had to help him up Wednesday am to go outside to toilet and still do sometimes although other times he does get himself up but its a struggle... As I say Chey is at vet today so will update.
Do you know what's wrong with him?? How old is Chey? Doesn't sound good... :(

CheyenneSunset
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:50 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by CheyenneSunset » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:57 pm

Vet isn't sure... Thinks he has severe arthritis but the sudden change in Chey rather than a slow change has resulted in him wanting to do tests so ma boy is in the vets all day Wednesday for X-rays etc... Says its possible that Chey managed it until Tuesday night but something twisted or moved that made the change obvious... Won't know for sure till get results on Wednesday .... My friends used to call him prancer as he walked in such a way I'm sure he knew he turned heads and he loved it :-)
He's on nightly pain med from vet and I saw in here posts about yumove so I give him 3 every am and it seems to have eased him a bit but not back to his cheeky self..... He's going to be 8 on Sunday and apart from leaving the kennels with giardia as a puppy he has had no health issues ... Once I get results from vet later in the week I will let you know.... Thank you for your interest :-)

User avatar
AZDehlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan, USA (for now)
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by AZDehlin » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:48 pm

Wolfsbane wrote:
And didn't Freyja (x Dylan/Zephyr) + Kana (x Jaeger) also produce several Crypto male puppies??? Not up to speed on US litters.

I added these three combos just now

User avatar
AZDehlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan, USA (for now)
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by AZDehlin » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:52 pm

Katlin wrote:I think the White Elk litter also had a crypt...I'm not 100% on that though.

I also thought they had one or two pups, someone would have to ask Ben and Kira to know for sure though.

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:15 pm

Thanks Katelyn! :)
CheyenneSunset wrote:Vet isn't sure... Thinks he has severe arthritis but the sudden change in Chey rather than a slow change has resulted in him wanting to do tests so ma boy is in the vets all day Wednesday for X-rays etc... Says its possible that Chey managed it until Tuesday night but something twisted or moved that made the change obvious... Won't know for sure till get results on Wednesday .... My friends used to call him prancer as he walked in such a way I'm sure he knew he turned heads and he loved it :-)
He's on nightly pain med from vet and I saw in here posts about yumove so I give him 3 every am and it seems to have eased him a bit but not back to his cheeky self..... He's going to be 8 on Sunday and apart from leaving the kennels with giardia as a puppy he has had no health issues ... Once I get results from vet later in the week I will let you know.... Thank you for your interest :-)
I hope the vet can figure it out and that something can be done about it! 8 years isn't that old yet...

User avatar
Hawthorne
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Pennsylvania | USA
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:33 pm

AZDehlin wrote:
Katlin wrote:I think the White Elk litter also had a crypt...I'm not 100% on that though.
I also thought they had one or two pups, someone would have to ask Ben and Kira to know for sure though.
If so it would be news to me about the Explorer litter. The only cryptorchid Darwin produced is Wylie, to my knowledge.

And yes, Freyja has produced three cryptorchid puppies: two from the first litter (Yellowstone) and one from the second (Pi Litter). All of which flew in an airplane at 8 weeks. Which is probably a coincidence but I still have to throw that out there…other male pups are fine. The odd thing is that the pups from the first litter where thus: one male had two descended testicles when he left here, and they were certified by a vet. One testicle went back up and never came back down. The second pup had one retained testicle and one descended testicle at the time he left here (also certified by a vet). The new owners were well aware of the puppy's condition and were fine with it because they just wanted a family dog--not a breeding dog. The odd thing is that the puppy flew and that descended testicle went back up and never came back down. Ugh! The pup from the Pi Litter with retained testicles also went to a pet home so also not a huge concern. Still upsetting, but at least he wasn't intended for a breeding home.

Luckily, the only boy in the Snow Litter already has two descended testicles. Hooray! The great thing about Arrow (besides no epilepsy or Addisons) is NO cryptorchidism in his lines, period. Yay!
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

User avatar
Katlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2739
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 am
Location: Calgary, AB
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Katlin » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:17 am

I asked Ben on March 5th 2014 if any of the Explorer litter were cryptorchids and he said one of them definitely is a crypt which means Darwin must be a carrier.
Polarose Tamaskan
Polardog Outfitters
Owner of Sierra Kaweah RN RI TDI TRN TTDN CRN-MCL @ Polarose

CheyenneSunset
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:50 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by CheyenneSunset » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:20 pm

Just got Chey back from the vet.... He has arthritis in his spine :-(

User avatar
Tana
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Slovenia

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Tana » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:10 pm

Spondylosis?

CheyenneSunset
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:50 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by CheyenneSunset » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:01 pm

Tana wrote:Spondylosis?
Vet didn't use any medical term... He put x ray up and to let me look at it .. It looks like the bones on the bottom of 2 vertebrate have almost fussed together... Said it was inoperable and has to be managed using metacam ... It apparently won't get worse but will cause him pain, stiffness and un comfort from time to time ... However its a huge relief that vet does not think his standard of life will be so bad that I have to consider the unthinkable ... Just need to not let him over exercise or let him think he is still a puppy as he will suffer the following day.

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:19 pm

CheyenneSunset wrote:
Tana wrote:Spondylosis?
Vet didn't use any medical term... He put x ray up and to let me look at it .. It looks like the bones on the bottom of 2 vertebrate have almost fussed together... Said it was inoperable and has to be managed using metacam ... It apparently won't get worse but will cause him pain, stiffness and un comfort from time to time ... However its a huge relief that vet does not think his standard of life will be so bad that I have to consider the unthinkable ... Just need to not let him over exercise or let him think he is still a puppy as he will suffer the following day.
That does sound like Spondylosis, poor boy :(
Hope you will be able to manage his pain & symptoms with medication, so he can still enjoy life as much as possible!

User avatar
Hawthorne
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Pennsylvania | USA
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:31 pm

Katlin wrote:I asked Ben on March 5th 2014 if any of the Explorer litter were cryptorchids and he said one of them definitely is a crypt which means Darwin must be a carrier.
Oh well, it seems like everyone is… there are worse things, that's for sure! We just have to try and send the best pups with two descended testicles to breeding homes to breed away from this trait. It won't be an easy fix. Besides sending the best male pup structurally and temperamentally, this is the other thing to consider. We should really all be allocating our puppies very late in their development for this reason. If I had the space, I would "grow them out" to an older age…someday--when we get the farm we want :D
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

User avatar
Katlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2739
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 am
Location: Calgary, AB
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Katlin » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:54 pm

I agree Tracey, I would like to see pups go home at 10 weeks (if there is only one or no testicles descended) rather than 8 since these pups seem to be such late bloomers. Wylie's first one didn't drop until he was 6 months old.
Polarose Tamaskan
Polardog Outfitters
Owner of Sierra Kaweah RN RI TDI TRN TTDN CRN-MCL @ Polarose

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Nino » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:38 pm

Rahne wrote:Heidi at Blustag (Heidi) x Jackal at Blustag (Jackal) – 2 litters / ? pups total:
* 1 x Cryptorchidism
* 1 x failing hips (4 tested)
If the 4 tested is Sølve (failed), Kira, Cheyenne and Leska, then this should maybe be changed to Heidi at Blustag (Heidi) x Ohanzee of Torriarno (Rann) as all four have tested out as Rann offspring.
Bow in Norway have been tested with FCIA hips too, although it is yet to confirm whether she is Rann or Jackal offspring.
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
AZDehlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan, USA (for now)
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by AZDehlin » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:34 am

Should we be listing the dogs that have come back with documented stomach issues (IBS) that are now on vegetarian diets?

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:08 am

AZDehlin wrote:Should we be listing the dogs that have come back with documented stomach issues (IBS) that are now on vegetarian diets?
I would like to see that info added to the list. Is IBS genetic or unknown cause at this time?

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5184
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Sylvaen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:21 am

AZDehlin wrote:Should we be listing the dogs that have come back with documented stomach issues (IBS) that are now on vegetarian diets?
Yes, I think so. A Tamaskan that is allergic to protein and can no longer eat meat (vegetarian diet only) IS a very serious issue... we also have a few cases within the breed of Tams that are allergic to all kinds of wheat / grain, etc (causing extreme diarrhea). It would definitely be good to keep track of the combinations that have produced these dogs so we can see if a pattern starts to develop (if it might be genetic) and so we can also be aware that similar genetic combinations might produce similarly affected dogs.
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
firleymj
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:38 pm
Location: Gaithersburg, MD, USA
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by firleymj » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:42 pm

Disclaimer: I support disclosure of any serious medical conditions, especially when breeding.

HOWEVER, I'm getting concerned with what I see as a growing problem with managing the breed.
There's an old adage from the Soviet Navy known as Groshkov's Rule: [roughly translated] "The perfect is the enemy of the implemented."

I think we're at risk of trying to produce "perfect" dogs by means of producing NO dogs at all. When the "screening" becomes so rigorous as to disqualify all dogs from breeding for fear of what MIGHT happen, we are at a net loss. . I do realize that's an exaggeration and a caricature, but not so far that it's unrecognizable.

Any disclosure also needs perspective - what are the real odds? What's the typical impact? etc.

For example, many Arctic dogs are notoriously grain intolerant - hardly surprising, given their evolutionary conditions. Various estimates of canine populations show as many as ten (10) percent of all dogs showing some food allergy or sensitivity. While they evolved feeding on human scraps, that doesn't mean we have identical biology. Canids simply aren't the same omnivores we are, and we need to respect differences between species. As we learn more, our list will change - that's science.

Fact: Given enough humans, we can find similar results from broadly based samples, perhaps at even higher rates. It's only common sense to limit their intake and watch for problems.

Yes, we have a duty to encourage the production of healthy dogs. But biology is not mechanics, it's closer to quantum mechanics, with all the statistical uncertainty thrown in. We need to be honest with ourselves about that.

This isn't a problem limited to Tamaskans, either. I'd rather take a risk on the gene pool that produced our dogs than on many of the overly inbred show lines I've seen in other breeds [you may insert your favorite bete noir here]. Yes, we need to be honest, but some of the discussion troubles me (partly as a potential breeder, but mostly as an applied mathematician)

We need to understand the "false positive paradox"

The false positive paradox is a statistical result where false positive tests are more probable than true positive tests, occurring when the overall population has a low incidence of a condition and the incidence rate is lower than the false positive rate. The probability of a positive test result is determined not only by the accuracy of the test but by the characteristics of the sampled population. When the incidence, the proportion of those who have a given condition, is lower than the test's false positive rate, even tests that have a very low chance of giving a false positive in an individual case will give more false than true positives overall. So, in a population with very few affected dogs—fewer proportionately than the test gives false positives—there will actually be more who test positive for a disease incorrectly and don't have it than those who test positive accurately and do. [adapted from Wikipedia]

When the population size is small, it makes it even harder to figure out what's noise and what isn't.

I'm going to take a page out of the Bayesian Biologist and give an example:

Let's say (for the sake of argument) that the incidence of a problematic medical condition (a specific one) is 1 in a hundred dogs for any given undesirable.

Also say that I have a test for that condition that is 90 percent accurate. That is, it will correctly detect the condition .9 of the time. (Which is better than the accuracy of many medical tests).

For any given dog tested the odds of a "false positive" given this population size and test accuracy are approximately 10:1 in favor of a false report. That is, 10 dogs will be incorrectly identified as "sick" when they're actually healthy. (The exact number of false results is a little higher, as we have to account for sick dogs not identified as sick, and sick dogs identified as healthy as well).

You get the idea, I hope.

Disclosure is good, but let us please remember not to scare ourselves into extinction.

In no way do I mean to be disrespectful, but in today's world there really is a certitude attached to "science" that good science never claimed, and should never claim. Science that purports to be universal and settled is belief, not science. Our success at some things often makes it harder to see the flaws. To take a trivial example, anyone who's been on a jury knows that it's never quite so easy as the various crime lab TV shows would have us believe. "Evidence" is always incomplete, "Certainty" should always be provisonal.

I am not a canine biologist - I don't play one on TV, either :D But I will contribute what I can to this breed, and that's an understanding of the maths. Please take this in that spirit.

Mark
My goal in life is to be as good of a person as my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown
The greatest love is a mother's; then a dog's; then a sweetheart's. ~Polish Proverb

The human of Ch.(ARBA) and Ch.(KCUSA) Hawthorne James Watson (call name Kona)

Image
http://www.anthracitetamaskan.com

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5184
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Sylvaen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:54 pm

I wasn't suggesting that we exclude from breeding any dogs that are intolerant of grain (or their parents) but, rather, that we simply make a note of the individual dogs and the litter combinations to keep track of it... especially if it seems that some bloodlines are more at risk of developing IBS (bearing in mind that the individual adult dogs that were recently diagnosed with severe protein allergies and can no longer eat any meat whatsoever, started out with just a simple "grain intolerance" when they were young). Personally, I feel that the more health issues that are reported, the better... otherwise how else can we develop a better understanding of the potential health problems within the breed? For far too long we were told "the Tamaskan is totally healthy and has NO health issues whatsoever" and any sick dogs were simply swept under the rug by breeders who were trying to hush things up... it wasn't until owners started talking and sharing experiences that it was discovered that, in reality, some of those health problems are actually relatively common within the breed. While grain intolerance is a mild inconvenience, full-blown protein allergy is much more serious - however, it can still be controlled by diet. It is worrying to think that there are some other significantly more serious health problems that may be going unreported... full disclosure must be paramount, not to "scare ourselves into extinction" but simply to be aware. By strictly narrowing down the genepool until only a few "healthy" dogs remain, it actually does far more harm than good because it limits genetic variety while increasing the incidence of inbreeding, which in turn increases the risk of new recessive disorders... moreover, those seemingly "healthy" dogs (which may be DNA clear for all tested issues) may then later go on to develop a severe genetic condition for which there is not yet a DNA test. It is far better to increase genetic variety by selectively breeding based on informed decisions, which is only possible via full disclosure of all relevant health issues. :)
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
firleymj
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:38 pm
Location: Gaithersburg, MD, USA
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by firleymj » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:53 pm

Debby

THANK YOU. And we are in complete agreement. What I would have regretted is for people without your background and that of the other registered breeders to make a negative conclusion about the breed based on woefully incomplete statistics.

For example, we have enough data to suggest that cryptorchidism is a real statistical risk, albeit at low levels, and (within any confidence level with current data) no worse than other breeds as a whole, and no worse than Shepherds and Boxers.

As Dr. W. Edwards Deming, perhaps the most comprehensive statistician on the subject of quality control drilled into us:
"Three is a run, five is a trend, it takes eight to make a statistic" IUntil we can get enough data to make sure our upper and lower control limits aren't hopelessly fuzzy, disclosure is key, but providing strong context will be required for all involved.

With agreement and respect,

Mark
My goal in life is to be as good of a person as my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown
The greatest love is a mother's; then a dog's; then a sweetheart's. ~Polish Proverb

The human of Ch.(ARBA) and Ch.(KCUSA) Hawthorne James Watson (call name Kona)

Image
http://www.anthracitetamaskan.com

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5184
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:39 pm

No problem! :)
firleymj wrote:For example, we have enough data to suggest that cryptorchidism is a real statistical risk, albeit at low levels, and (within any confidence level with current data) no worse than other breeds as a whole, and no worse than Shepherds and Boxers.

As Dr. Edward Deming, perhaps the most comprehensive statistician on the subject of quality control drilled into us:
"Three is a run, five is a trend, it takes eight to make a statistic" IUntil we can get enough data to make sure our upper and lower control limits aren't hopelessly fuzzy, disclosure is key, but providing strong context will be required for all involved.
Yes, I absolutely agree. Also, cryptorchidism is relatively manageable because once the main carriers were identified, it is easy to use that information to reduce the incidences in future generations. Through careful selective breeding, it should be possible to eventually 'breed out' cryptorchidism all together but without losing any valuable genetic contributions along the way (through outcrossing and breeding potential carriers to non-affected bloodlines, etc). :)
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:58 am

Is this list still being updated? If so, it'd be nice resource for breeders (current and potential) as well as future breeders looking to purchase a Tamaskan (like me. ;)) to reference. :)

I noticed cataracts and epilepsy isn't listed for 2 Heidi/Bodie (Blustag Sanuye) pups. I am not sure if vom Willebrand's *carriers* need to be addressed? I know we have 2 from Freyja/Arrow litter...possibly more from Sophie/Arrow or Raven/Arrow as they have yet to be tested (too young).

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:43 pm

The original topic was created by me on my old account so I cannot update it anymore. A mod would have to do it or a new topic would need to be created...
I'm not aware of cataracts in the Heidi x Bodie litter??

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:39 am

Wolfsbane wrote:I'm not aware of cataracts in the Heidi x Bodie litter??
Wasn't Tika (Blustag Golden Sunrise) diagnosed with cataracts? I saw it in this thread: http://tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic.php ... 406#p89480

Regarding the epilepsy in a Heidi/Bodie litter, I think it was Blustag Golden Moon at Asgard (Loki) who had epilepsy. Sadly he passed. :(

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:19 pm

Ohh I see. But did Tika get a 2nd opinion?
I was aware of Loki :(, the epilepsy has been listed.

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5184
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Sylvaen » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:58 pm

Wolfsbane wrote:The original topic was created by me on my old account so I cannot update it anymore. A mod would have to do it or a new topic would need to be created.
Fixed it.
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:41 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
Wolfsbane wrote:The original topic was created by me on my old account so I cannot update it anymore. A mod would have to do it or a new topic would need to be created.
Fixed it.
Thanks Debby! :)

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5184
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Sylvaen » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:58 pm

Wolfsbane wrote:Thanks Debby! :)
No problem. :)
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
Hawthorne
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Pennsylvania | USA
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:47 pm

From another thread: I thought this info should all be in one place:
http://tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4115
EssiK wrote:I dont know is there this kind of topic allready.
So, I'm really interested about behaivior, health and other problems in these lines:
- Whitefang/Valko
- Hero
- Blustag Elsa/Blustag Silver Wolf

They all are part of my own (And many of other) wolfdogs pedigree(s) and thats why I'd like to know about your problems. According to my understanding, these names can also be found from many of tamaskan dogs pedigrees.

There have been some addison and epilepsy on those lines.

One combination has produced addisons diseas. There have been two litters from this combination, but only younger litter was having problems with Addison. There was diseased dogs in this:
The combination was: Hero (sire: Moca x dam: Rania) x Gina (sire: Hero x dam: Blustag Elsa)

And one dog from:
Luka (swiss shephed) x Ronja (Hero x Dana)

And there have been also epilepsy on Hero and Whitefang lined dogs.
Whitefang x Sara (Hero x Elsa) - 1 dog, this dog got a small electric shock from cows electricfence few hours before shes death.
Fidel (Whitefang x Sara (Hero x Elsa) ) x Indy (Sepe (Hero x Dana) x Mimmi (Sepe (Hero x Dana) x Kaisu) - 1 dog from older litter, younger litter is healthy. Indy was allready pregnent when epilepsy in younger litter came to light.

In Whitefang line has also had behavioral problems, but I dont know very much about them. So I dont want to say things which I'm not sure.

These are all health problems what I know from these lines. So it would be nice to hear more, this would be also very important information to me and other wolfdog owners and breeders. Thank you allready and try to understand my writings. :)
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:39 pm

Hoping someone can help me out...
I'm adding markers to the online database but can't remember some of the dogs (their names) that were affected by Cryptorchidism.

* Bindi x Jackal, 1 male?
* Susi x Dingo, 2 males? (I know Mikko being one)
* Tumanra x Rann, 1 male? (Diesel??)
* Heidi x Rann, 1 male?
* Frigga x Odin, 1 male?
* Vega x Sampo, 2 males?
* Vala x Xantho, 1 male?

User avatar
Sylvaen
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 5184
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:35 am

Wolfsbane wrote:Hoping someone can help me out...
I'm adding markers to the online database but can't remember some of the dogs (their names) that were affected by Cryptorchidism.

* Bindi x Jackal, 1 male?
* Susi x Dingo, 2 males? (I know Mikko being one)
* Tumanra x Rann, 1 male? (Diesel??)
* Heidi x Rann, 1 male?
* Frigga x Odin, 1 male?
* Vega x Sampo, 2 males?
* Vala x Xantho, 1 male?
Bindi X Jackal = Blustag River Phoenix (Apache)
Vega X Sampo = Quicksilver Electrum (Drajen) & Quicksilver Sterling (Anju)
Vala X Xantho = Sylvaen Vishimtar the Fallen (Kaito)

The others I can't remember off the top of my head but the info should be here on the forum somewhere.
Image
The future lies before you, like a path of pure white snow...
Be careful how you tread it, for every step will show.

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:49 pm

Sylvaen wrote: Bindi X Jackal = Blustag River Phoenix (Apache)
Vega X Sampo = Quicksilver Electrum (Drajen) & Quicksilver Sterling (Anju)
Vala X Xantho = Sylvaen Vishimtar the Fallen (Kaito)

The others I can't remember off the top of my head but the info should be here on the forum somewhere.
Thanks for the help. I did do forum searches but couldn't find it, although I don't have access to all parts (breeders section) of the forum so perhaps it is listed there.

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:06 pm

I've updated the list, let me know if I'm missing anything. Unfortunately there have been 2 more cases (same litter) of the heart condition Subvalvular Aortic Stenosis. There has also been another case of Luxating Patellas.

User avatar
NekoCitron
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:30 am

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by NekoCitron » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:19 pm

Just want to say that this is an impressive work which is shown in this topic.
Congrats to all of you who are doing your best to keeping tracks of every disease for every dogs of every litters.
Amazing seriousness, awesome work ! :)

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:36 pm

Another case of Addison's has shown up, list is updated :(
NekoCitron wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:19 pm
Just want to say that this is an impressive work which is shown in this topic.
Congrats to all of you who are doing your best to keeping tracks of every disease for every dogs of every litters.
Amazing seriousness, awesome work ! :)
Glad it is appreciated :)

Ejanicki
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Ejanicki » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:48 am

I found the information contained here to be very interesting. Thanks to all who did the research and consolidated the information so neatly into one place!

I have two questions:
1) Is it the information in the original post that is being updated as new information comes up? Or is it being updated somewhere else?
2) In the listing of affected dogs in specific pairings, is each occurrence, even of different conditions, an individual dog? Or is it the case that some dogs are affected by multiple conditions but they are listed separately? (For example: if dog “A” has IBS and failing hips, would that individual be listed twice (once for each condition)? Or should I assume that each occurrence of each condition is a separate individual (i.e., none of the affected dogs are affected with multiple conditions)?

Thanks all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:11 am

Ejanicki wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:48 am
1) Is it the information in the original post that is being updated as new information comes up? Or is it being updated somewhere else?
Yes the original post is being updated.
Ejanicki wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:48 am
2) In the listing of affected dogs in specific pairings, is each occurrence, even of different conditions, an individual dog? Or is it the case that some dogs are affected by multiple conditions but they are listed separately? (For example: if dog “A” has IBS and failing hips, would that individual be listed twice (once for each condition)? Or should I assume that each occurrence of each condition is a separate individual (i.e., none of the affected dogs are affected with multiple conditions)?
A dog that is affected by two conditions would be listed twice. We are just listing conditions, and the amount of times it occured, within a specific breeding combination.

User avatar
Wolfsbane
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Breeding combinations - health issues list

Post by Wolfsbane » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:58 pm

Update:

Blustag Lightning Strike (Leo), from the 2nd Susi x Jackal litter, sadly passed away this month at only 6,5 years of age. He had been having seizures at roughly monthly intervals for 3,5 years.

Post Reply