Wolfy Appearance?

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Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Lyss » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:18 pm

Quick question :)

Is the Tamaskan being bred to look like a specific wolf subspecies, or is it up to the discretion of breeders what "type" of wolf look-alike they hope to produce?

I only ask because I personally prefer the typical appearance of North American subspecies as opposed to the typical appearance of their European cousins, and I was curious as to what direction the Tamaskan dog was headed.

I'll admit, there is a lot of variation even between individuals, but there are consistent differences. A general pictorial comparison can be found here, by ~Dark-Hyena on DeviantArt. This comparison, in turn, was inspired by this picture of a North American wolf subspecies and a European subspecies together, by ~Suspended-in-time, also on DeviantArt.

These differences are noted, in detail:
Subspecies of Canis lupus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia wrote:Geographical variations

Wolves show a great deal of dimorphism geographically, though they can interbreed. The Zoological Gardens of London for example once successfully managed to mate a male European wolf to an Indian female, resulting in a cub bearing an almost exact likeness to its sire.

Europe

European wolves tend to have coarse fur with less soft wool intermixed than American wolves. Their heads are narrower, their ears longer, higher placed and somewhat closer to each other. Their loins are more slender, their legs longer, their feet narrower, and their tails more thinly clothed with fur. Pelt colour in European wolves ranges from white, cream, red, grey and black, sometimes with all colours combined. Wolves in central Europe tend to be more richly coloured than those in Northern Europe. Eastern European wolves tend to be shorter and more heavily built than Northern Russian ones.

North America

North American wolves are generally the same size as European wolves, but have shorter legs, larger, rounder heads, broader, more obtuse muzzles, and a sensible depression at the union of nose and forehead, which is more arched and broad. Their ears are shorter and have a more conical form. They typically lack the black mark on the forelegs, as is the case in European races. They have long and comparatively fine fur, mixed with a shorter wooly hair, and are more robust. Fur colour in American wolves ranges from white, black, red, yellow, brown, gray, and grizzled skins, and others representing every shade between, although usually each locality has its prevailing tint. There are pronounced differences in North American wolves of different localities; wolves from Texas and New Mexico are comparatively slim animals with small teeth. Mexican wolves in particular resemble some European wolves in stature, though their heads are usually broader, their necks thicker, their ears longer and their tails shorter. Wolves of the central and northern chains of the Rocky Mountains and coastal ranges are more formidable animals than the more southern plains wolves, and resemble Russian and Scandinavian wolves in size and proportions. (from Wikipedia)

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by TeresaC » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:24 am

This is a really good question. It seems to me that the breed standard tends to lean towards the European wolves. I personally like the heavier and blockier look of the Northern American wolves.

I would love to hear from Lynn and others who have been around the breed since the beginning if there was a specific wolf look in mind.
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Blustag » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:30 pm

HAHA.... this is a question that I have often pondered over. I think my answer is that we have two types... the European...Jackal..type and the North American Timber.... Jodie, JJ etc type... ;) I dont actually have a preference because I have had close association with both types of wolf and like them both. I also love the Mexican and other subspecies of wolf... lets just say if it is wolf then I love it ... :lol: Be interesting to see how this topic goes ;)

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by blufawn » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:26 pm

I also like the North American Wolf. I think if all Tamaskan could look like Kenai (Yogi) then I would be happy :)
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by WhiteElkStag » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:48 pm

Perhaps I'm a bit biased... being born in N.A., growing up in N.A..... watching N.A. wolves running around national parks my whole life. But, I really love the aesthetics of the North American wolf and the Jodie looking Tams.
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by kendrrat » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:15 am

i agree, i think i prefer the look of the north american wolves- i like the thick, full appearance and the rounder face. but of course theyre all drop dead gorgeous ;)

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Blustag » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:37 pm

What is very interesting is that ...most of Jackal's puppies all look like him and I can tell a Jackal pup just by looking at it...BUT... Jodie to Jackal has produced Bodie and JJ who both look exactly like their mother and very wolfy and yet Bodie's brother Annu looks just like his dad Jackal. The only pups looking like their mother from that litter are Bodie and JJ. The rest look like their father Jackal.

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by JoshC » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:09 pm

I am for the North American Wolf Look myself. There is 700 Timberwolves in WI I love their look

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by susann » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:42 pm

I do not know if I am still right but I guess you find it different to how much/less Tamaskan resemble wolves .. depending on your own image of a wolf ?? :?:
This is my understanding of how people see Nova and how I see other Tamaskan! Some more wolf-like, other less ..

I met a couple of guys with pitbuls and they told me that their pitbul bitch never responded to other dogs before and that it must be the wolf in Nova. I said that there is no wolf in her!
:lol: :lol:

I met a little girl and her mother. The little girl says to her mom: Ohh .. a wolf! The mother says to her little girl that there is no wolf, it's just a beautiful dog that looks like a wolf.

9 out of 10 we meet on our walks asks if there are wolves in her :D

It's really fun because I (we) wanted a wolf-like dog and it seems like I got it ;)

Is it weird translation here now to blame Goggle translate .. :lol:

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:03 pm

Yep, it's funny because it all depends who you meet on a walk.... some people are convinced they are PURE wolves (on a leash! hahaha) while others come up to me and say "nice huskies" - most of the time they can't figure out the breed so I'm always having people approach me to ask about them. Occasionally I get asked if they are Czech Wolfdogs but most people say they've never seen dogs like mine before and didn't know they exist. hehehe :)

I also think that different Tamaskan bloodlines look like different variations of wolves but a lot of it also depends on one's perception of what a wolf actually looks like... since being involved with Tamaskans I can now very easily spot a wolfdog vs a real wolf vs a wolfy looking dog, just at a glance. I must say that I prefer the North American Timber wolf over the European... I don't think anyone would want to own a wolf that looks like the wild ones we have here in Croatia - they're very scrawny / mangy looking creatures most of the year round (resembling foxes)... very "wild" looking but not exactly majestic.
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by susann » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:27 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Yep, it's funny because it all depends who you meet on a walk.... some people are convinced they are PURE wolves (on a leash! hahaha) while others come up to me and say "nice huskies" - most of the time they can't figure out the breed so I'm always having people approach me to ask about them. Occasionally I get asked if they are Czech Wolfdogs but most people say they've never seen dogs like mine before and didn't know they exist. hehehe :)

I also think that different Tamaskan bloodlines look like different variations of wolves but a lot of it also depends on one's perception of what a wolf actually looks like... since being involved with Tamaskans I can now very easily spot a wolfdog vs a real wolf vs a wolfy looking dog, just at a glance. I must say that I prefer the North American Timber wolf over the European... I don't think anyone would want to own a wolf that looks like the wild ones we have here in Croatia - they're very scrawny / mangy looking creatures most of the year round (resembling foxes)... very "wild" looking but not exactly majestic.
Yes, I hear husky too sometimes... but their first reaction is mostly that there are some % wolf in her!
A women asked me if it was a Czech wolfdog.

When I say its a Tamaskan they go.. ????????? .. a what?

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Nino » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:55 pm

I was transporting a malinois south for a breeder who where the first to breed Czech's in Denmark (but dont breed them anymore) - when she dropped up the pup she was like "wow that a - wait no it isn't" when she got a little closer :lol: - so at a distance Sølve was looking like a Czech but at close she isn't.
- She was VERY interested in Sølve, and said that if I ever needed someone to look after her she I would be more than welcome at her place..
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Lyss » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:35 am

Blustag wrote:HAHA.... this is a question that I have often pondered over. I think my answer is that we have two types... the European...Jackal..type and the North American Timber.... Jodie, JJ etc type... ;)
I think its really cool there are two "types" of Tams, just like there are many types of wolves. It seems much easier to accommodate for the differences in opinion as to what a wolf really looks like that way. For instance, I tend to see the European wolves as looking much more doggy, but that's because I equate a lot of their appearance with the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, and because I grew up picturing the North American wolf as what all wolves looked like :P It wasn't until recently I started to learn that wolves across the world actually look quite different lol
Sylvaen wrote:... since being involved with Tamaskans I can now very easily spot a wolfdog vs a real wolf vs a wolfy looking dog, just at a glance.
Heh, I'm trying to learn this skill! So far its still pretty hard for me if its anything other than a North American wolf mixed in...
Just a quick question, and this might be a little off-topic, but what will happen when the Tamaskan starts to become indistinguishable from the real deal?

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Nino » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:06 am

Lyss wrote: Just a quick question, and this might be a little off-topic, but what will happen when the Tamaskan starts to become indistinguishable from the real deal?
hmm.. for some reason I'm not sure that will happen a 100%, but IF, then the pedigree will be important specially when it comes to places where wolf's arent allowed.. and it will be all important at some point to focus on temperment so there won't be problems with idintifying if a individual is a dog or a wolf.


- One of the things I'm dreaming of will dissapear out of the Tam breed, is the Blaze that some dogs have - I dont see is as very wolfy :lol:
luckily it often dissapears when they grow up - I can see with Sølve it blends in a lot more :)
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by kendrrat » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:21 am

Nino wrote:- One of the things I'm dreaming of will dissapear out of the Tam breed, is the Blaze that some dogs have - I dont see is as very wolfy :lol:
luckily it often dissapears when they grow up - I can see with Sølve it blends in a lot more :)
this brings up something interesting- maybe to be started in another thread or something- but it would be interesting to see what other traits people like/ would like to breed out?

i really like the ear and face shape that NA wolves have, very triangular if that makes sense?
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:40 am

i love any wolf... i have always wanted one but even if it was possible (no hybrid either), i wouldn't have the heart to make it captive... i don't even like the circus (with animals) or the zoo.

i also find the tasmanian wolf/tiger (the thylacin (sp) become extinct in the 20th century) interesting (i know, unrelated but i have spent a few years googling wolfy websites).

i think the blocky look of the North American wolf is the most recognized and the most sought after. it could be dangerous (for the dog) if it get's too wolfy (some (farmers) people shoot and ask questions later). not to mention the fact someone could be running round town claiming a wolf to be a tamaskan, lose control of the wild, unpredictable (beautiful) animal and then it will give tamaskans a bad name and rep (as much as i would like a wolf (not wolf), i don't trust humans).

ok, i have re read that a few times so hopefully it will still make sense when someone else reads it and when i go back to it...

Edit: i love that pic... wasn't there before :)
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Nino » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:13 pm

kendrrat wrote:
Nino wrote:- One of the things I'm dreaming of will dissapear out of the Tam breed, is the Blaze that some dogs have - I dont see is as very wolfy :lol:
luckily it often dissapears when they grow up - I can see with Sølve it blends in a lot more :)
this brings up something interesting- maybe to be started in another thread or something- but it would be interesting to see what other traits people like/ would like to breed out?

i really like the ear and face shape that NA wolves have, very triangular if that makes sense?
I'd really like the ears to be in general smaller too, and a little more rounded at the tip, like on that picture..

I'd like the fur to be a little more bushy too - I think a lot of Tam's have a little too short coat..
tails nice and bushy, not curling as some Tams - but I'm sure this isn't far away hehe

And ofcause I'd like all Tams to have yellow eyes :lol:
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Nino » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:19 pm

Oh - and I Looove big paws :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by blufawn » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:54 pm

We introduced Susi and Dingo to try to make the Tam's ears smaller, but sadly there is only so much you can do without adding in other breeds, which we are not willing to do. Once the gener pool is large enough, people will be able to breed for specific traits a lot easier.
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Nino » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:11 pm

blufawn wrote:We introduced Susi and Dingo to try to make the Tam's ears smaller, but sadly there is only so much you can do without adding in other breeds, which we are not willing to do. Once the gener pool is large enough, people will be able to breed for specific traits a lot easier.
Ofcause it's just a matter of time :)
Specially with fixing small traits :D
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Lyss » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:57 pm

TerriHolt wrote:i think the blocky look of the North American wolf is the most recognized and the most sought after. it could be dangerous (for the dog) if it get's too wolfy (some (farmers) people shoot and ask questions later). not to mention the fact someone could be running round town claiming a wolf to be a tamaskan, lose control of the wild, unpredictable (beautiful) animal and then it will give tamaskans a bad name and rep (as much as i would like a wolf (not wolf), i don't trust humans).

Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking. Like Nino said, I think the authenticity of the pedigrees will become even more important as the Tam grows, so its a great thing the TDR demands DNA testing of breeding dogs. IMO you can never be too careful! Especially in states (like mine) where wolfdogs are strictly forbidden.

I think it would be interesting to see what others want to breed-out,etc.
Nino wrote:I'd really like the ears to be in general smaller too, and a little more rounded at the tip, like on that picture..

I'd like the fur to be a little more bushy too - I think a lot of Tam's have a little too short coat..
tails nice and bushy, not curling as some Tams - but I'm sure this isn't far away hehe

And ofcause I'd like all Tams to have yellow eyes :lol:
of course I agree with all of this :D

But i'm glad the TDR is taking it nice and slow. Future Tams and owners deserve a healthy gene pool and good temperaments ;)

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Nino » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:49 pm

Lyss wrote:
Nino wrote:I'd really like the ears to be in general smaller too, and a little more rounded at the tip, like on that picture..

I'd like the fur to be a little more bushy too - I think a lot of Tam's have a little too short coat..
tails nice and bushy, not curling as some Tams - but I'm sure this isn't far away hehe

And ofcause I'd like all Tams to have yellow eyes :lol:
of course I agree with all of this :D

But i'm glad the TDR is taking it nice and slow. Future Tams and owners deserve a healthy gene pool and good temperaments ;)
:lol: yes
I was thinking health was a given ;)
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Sugalba » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:08 am

Has anyone thought about a pedigree database that lists ONLY registered dogs and not what is before them?

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:46 am

kendrrat wrote: this brings up something interesting- maybe to be started in another thread or something- but it would be interesting to see what other traits people like/ would like to breed out?

i really like the ear and face shape that NA wolves have, very triangular if that makes sense?
Oh, a list? I am a list master! mwa ha ha. :lol:

ear size (smaller)
head size (larger)--compare the size of a wolf skull to that of a dog skull ... wow!
wider set eyes (maybe this would come with larger head size?)
bushier tail (maybe this comes with colder weather--but it sure is cold here!)
larger in overall size (what is the weight range for F and M wolves? Is there such a large discrepancy between M & F wolves? I know there's sexual dimorphism in wolves--but Freyja is 60 pounds and her brother is 90--that's a lot!)


Okay--you say you like North American wolves...which ones? There are two types: Gray wolves (Canis lupus) and Algonquin / Red wolves (Canis rufus). : :twisted: :lol:
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by kendrrat » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:56 am

i def like grey wolves more. red wolves look more... coyote-ish than what i imagine for the tam. but thats just me! and it looks like the red wolf has much bigger ears than the grey? may just be the pictures im sampling, not sure. ;)

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:25 pm

i just love wolves weather they be grey, red or even blue ;) i wouldn't care :lol: i like coyote's too... anything doggie really. but those are good points to fetch up, it just kinda sounds like a mail order doggie... made to order :lol:
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:27 pm

Sorry to bump such an old topic, but I came across this nice photo of a handsome European Wolf that reminded me of Ulric. I put together a quick picture for comparison (this was the best I have of Ulric to compare with). The link to the photo of the wolf can be found on DeviantArt by Khevyel http://www.deviantart.com/art/Mr-Handsome-390656955
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by JenTehLuv » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:03 pm

I think most of the people on here prefer N.A wolves to Europe ones, it's this huge majestic looking creature that shows both power and beauty with just a glance. Maybe a bit further down the line we can try to add breeds who add the physical characteristics of N.A wolves so that tams will have those looks as well.

I'd personally prefer a N.A timber wolf looking tam over a European one. Since I want to breed in the U.S relatively soon which dogs should I look into to help achieve this? Bushier fur and tail, large head, yellow eyes, etc

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:40 pm

After having Ulric and seeing how much he looks similar to the European wolves, I can't help but really like the way they look too. I do still love the North American wolves as well. What do you think of this fellow (by same photographer http://khevyel.deviantart.com/art/Yakima-314208163)
yakima_by_khevyel-d572kkj.jpg
He is part Eurasian Wolf, part Timber Wolf (Canis Lupus). I say really, why not have Tamaskans look like both types as they are both thick coated, bushy tailed, and light eyed.
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by JenTehLuv » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:20 am

He looks gorgeous Jo! Even if tams could have thicker fur around the cheek fluff I'd be happy lol

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by weylyn » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:57 am

also in european wolfs there is differences. You have for instance an Carpathian wolf that was used in the CwD who is an european wolf but looks total different to the grey european wolf that was used in the Saarloos. The grey european wolf looks more like the grey subspecies of the american wolf.

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by akaye531 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:54 am

HiTenshi16 wrote:After having Ulric and seeing how much he looks similar to the European wolves, I can't help but really like the way they look too. I do still love the North American wolves as well. What do you think of this fellow (by same photographer http://khevyel.deviantart.com/art/Yakima-314208163)
yakima_by_khevyel-d572kkj.jpg
He is part Eurasian Wolf, part Timber Wolf (Canis Lupus). I say really, why not have Tamaskans look like both types as they are both thick coated, bushy tailed, and light eyed.
I love him! He reminds me a lot of some of our dogs.

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Cornelia1986 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:57 pm

akaye531 wrote:
HiTenshi16 wrote:After having Ulric and seeing how much he looks similar to the European wolves, I can't help but really like the way they look too. I do still love the North American wolves as well. What do you think of this fellow (by same photographer http://khevyel.deviantart.com/art/Yakima-314208163)
yakima_by_khevyel-d572kkj.jpg
He is part Eurasian Wolf, part Timber Wolf (Canis Lupus). I say really, why not have Tamaskans look like both types as they are both thick coated, bushy tailed, and light eyed.
I love him! He reminds me a lot of some of our dogs.

This picture reminds me also a lot of some pups of the Quicksilver Litter (VegaxShampo)!
There once was a wolf-
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by aerowrx » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:42 am

Along the same vein why doesn't the breed standard include white or black phase coat colors? These appear in wolves as well

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:33 am

aerowrx wrote:Along the same vein why doesn't the breed standard include white or black phase coat colors? These appear in wolves as well
Black Grey (black / black phase) is an accepted coat color according to the Tamaskan breed standard. "White" (cream/diulte red) Tamaskans are just too new and rare for it to be considered and accepted as a legitimate coat color, though I personally wouldn't mind - as long as the color exists in natural wild wolf populations, it should be allowed in the Tamaskan breed standard (IMHO).
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Tiantai » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:33 am

I have a question, are the rare black-grey coats permanent to the dogs born with that rare loci gene or do they fade away like the phase-black coats found in Grey wolves and some northeastern coyotes?
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Booma » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:36 pm

Tiantai wrote:I have a question, are the rare black-grey coats permanent to the dogs born with that rare loci gene or do they fade away like the phase-black coats found in Grey wolves and some northeastern coyotes?

I don't like to use the term "rare" when talking about a dogs colour - its a puppy mill thing to say. (ooh "rare" blue staffys - $3000 ea because they are sooooo rare)
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:38 am

Kylievr wrote:
Tiantai wrote:I have a question, are the rare black-grey coats permanent to the dogs born with that rare loci gene or do they fade away like the phase-black coats found in Grey wolves and some northeastern coyotes?

I don't like to use the term "rare" when talking about a dogs colour - its a puppy mill thing to say. (ooh "rare" blue staffys - $3000 ea because they are sooooo rare)
I'm actually referring to the recessive gene
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Whispyr » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:07 am

I was under the impression that the black-grey phase was what was accepted as a color, though it is primary time spent with this coat color? Clarification would be awesome for this. =)

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by balto13 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:02 am

Tiantai wrote:
Kylievr wrote:
Tiantai wrote:I have a question, are the rare black-grey coats permanent to the dogs born with that rare loci gene or do they fade away like the phase-black coats found in Grey wolves and some northeastern coyotes?

I don't like to use the term "rare" when talking about a dogs colour - its a puppy mill thing to say. (ooh "rare" blue staffys - $3000 ea because they are sooooo rare)
I'm actually referring to the recessive gene
I am sorry, I read it the same way Kylie did. It's because people say "rare" that Jennie can start a "save the black/grey society" and she can "specialise" in breeding them :/

I guess I don't understand your question though Lucas - you have been able to watch the black grey tams coat color develop on the forum and debate group, is it common to call recessive genes rare? I genuinely don't know or think that "recessive" and "rare" are interchangeable. I think since there isn't a high demand (lack of more professional words) for them from the community or other breeders there just aren't as many, but there easily could be.

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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Booma » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:58 am

^^ what she said ^^
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Sylvaen » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:06 pm

balto13 wrote:I guess I don't understand your question though Lucas - you have been able to watch the black grey tams coat color develop on the forum and debate group, is it common to call recessive genes rare? I genuinely don't know or think that "recessive" and "rare" are interchangeable. I think since there isn't a high demand (lack of more professional words) for them from the community or other breeders there just aren't as many, but there easily could be.
IMHO cream (dilute red) is "rare" (uncommon) within the breed: so far Valko and Winter were the only cream Tamaskans (and Valko was a FD so he doesn't really count as a Tamaskan).

As for Black, there are 2 varieties: recessive black and dominant black. This being the case, I don't think it is wise to call the color "rare" as it could easily spread through the bloodlines, and could ultimately start to dominate within the breed, now that it already exists within the breed - it just all depends on the combinations chosen by breeders. I think we will start to see it more and more over the next few years.
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Tiantai » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:55 pm

While part of the goal is to keep the breed as wolfish looking as possible which is what I understand, I've seen many opinions from people in the Stop Misrepresentation of Wolfdog and other wolfdog related groups saying that they think the Tamaskan looks more like a husky-mix and not very wolfish. In my opinion though, I do think that some of the dogs actually resemble some of the most genetically distinct Grey wolf subspecies like the Mexican wolves, Arabian wolves, and some hybrids between Grey wolves and other wild canid species such as the coyote and Golden Jackals like the Eastern Algonquin Park Coywolves*, and Egyptian Jackwolves° respectively. But as for all these more common subspecies that most people are more familliar with like the Rocky Mountain wolves, Carpanthian wolves, Eurasian wolves, Steppe wolves, and Alaskan wolves, the breed doesn't really look that close to any wolfdogs I've seen mixed with those subspecies in them despite the diluted wolf-contents in some of the lines. To be fair, I know that it is because they are mostly dogs, but just not that wolfy-looking in my opinion.

Here's some photos of the wild canids that I think the breed resembles more:

Eastern wolf (Native to the Eastern to Atlantic Canada and the northeastern US)
Eastern wolf (Canis lupus lycaon).jpg
Arabian wolf (Native to the Middle East)
Arabian wolf (Canis lupus arabs).jpg
-courtesy of Thomas Krumenacker

Egyptian wolf
Egyptian Jackwolves.jpg
°The Egyptian wolves (Canis lupus lupaster) were previously thought to be a subspecies of the Golden Jackals. However, genetic researches as well as comparisons to Golden Jackal/Grey wolf hybrids in Senegal have confirmed that these animals are in fact another genetically distinct subspecies of the Grey wolf with mild Golden Jackal introgressions.
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Re: Wolfy Appearance?

Post by Tiantai » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:09 pm

Alright, so upon rereading some of the confusions, it appears not everyone understood what I meant when I was talking about the recessive black and phase-black. The question I asked was does the recessive black coat like the one found in Rann fade like the phase-black coat found in wild wolves? I hope this clarity is understood better this time?

For those who do not know what "Phase-Black" is, here's a brief history:
In the wild, some Grey wolves and Coywolves born with a dark coat are under what's called a "black phase" which is what gives their coat the black-grey look. This colour is called "phase-black". The difference between phase-black and the black found in many domestic dogs such as that of the Belgium Shepherds is that the phase-black colour does not stay for life, it fades away into the regular lupine grey after years. But my curiousity was whether or not if the recessive black which exists in the Tamaskan breed would stay or if it would fade away. Because from my understanding, the phase-black gene is suspected to be a recessive gene that was passed on to the early Eurasian wolves from domestic dogs. Some of the wolves carrying that gene who later migrated back to North America continued passing it amongst themselves. But after generations, the eastern and Atlantic Grey wolf populations (such as the Great Plains wolves, Hudson Bay wolves, Manitoban wolves, and Labrador wolves) who were severely depleted around the same time of the Viking's Settlement on the continent from persecutions began interbreeding with the Pre-Columbian eastern coyotes resulting with the black phase getting passed on to these native North American canids. But so far, none of the western coyotes are known to carry this gene.

Here's some examples:

A Grey wolf photograph during and after the black phase
Phase-Black.jpg
These are coyotes with distant Grey wolf ancestry also affected by the black phase which was passed on to them from the wolves.
Black Phase coyotes.jpg
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