Ear Size

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Ear Size

Post by Nino » Thu May 31, 2012 8:57 pm

I was talking with a couple of people yesterday about the ear size, and in that context I got the other two to measure their dogs ears to compare (I can't do mine as I'm abroad atm), and I was thinking maybe you guys would be willing to try and measure your dogs ears so that it maybe could be possible to estimate the breed median in size :)

Left ear is what we concluded would be the most correct place to measure when talking about the size (since it is from the center of the ear to the tip of the ear) - Right ear was just another measure that they did (we concluded that the center side of the ear automatic would be the shortest length since this is closest to both head and tip)
earsize.jpg

If I remember correctly (else just correct me girlies) these were the measures they got:

Height of ear - Dog name - Sex - Age

12 cm - Konah - Female
10 cm - Ookami - Male
11 cm - Makoyi- Female
11 cm - Sam - Male - 1½ year old
11,5 cm - Ulrich - Male - 2 years old



For Fun:
Size - Name - Sex - Age
12,5 cm - Serenity (foster possible Tam mix) - Female - 3 years (that's her name right?)


Because I would like to get the Adult sizes we agreed that the dog probably should be at least 1½ when measuring because some of the dogs still grow when turning 1

When you guys measure feel free to add the age of your Tam - feel free to measure even if your dog is not yet "old enough" just remember to add age so that I don't include it in the equation when calculating :)


Hope you guys would be willing to give "your numbers" if you are able to do so when your dogs are playing "Earless Tamaskan" as Rahne and My's did yesterday :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Mylingen » Thu May 31, 2012 9:40 pm

Yup, those were the numbers I gave you, and it's Makoyi. ;)
Ooki is 3 yrs and Koyi is 2.5 btw. :)
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Re: Ear Size

Post by TerriHolt » Thu May 31, 2012 9:52 pm

Interesting... Would 2 yr old + make it more accurate tho? Just a thought...

See if i can get Sam to co-operate (been 1yr 6mo end of june won't make too much difference doing it beginning would it?), his seem's pretty big...

Edit: It looked like 10cm but he did a bit of ear flicking (i think it tickled him :D ) so i'll say 11cm (not as big as they look :mrgreen: )

Sam
Male
1.5 Yr old
11cm

Edit Edit: Just been looking back through recent pics... why do ears look 2x's bigger in pictures than in rl?
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Re: Ear Size

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu May 31, 2012 10:29 pm

11 1/2 cm - Ulric - male 2 yrs

And for fun of comparison, my foster...
12 1/2 cm - Serenity - female - 3 yrs
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Nino » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:57 am

TerriHolt wrote:Interesting... Would 2 yr old + make it more accurate tho? Just a thought...
Might be - but most of the dogs grow very little between 1 and 2 years of age
My own girl grew till like 10 months and then havent grown more than max 2 cm in height since, so I'm just guessing that the size of the ear is if not all then almost at the end of growing there (unless they like ours grow the entire life)
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Re: Ear Size

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:35 am

Nino wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:Interesting... Would 2 yr old + make it more accurate tho? Just a thought...
Might be - but most of the dogs grow very little between 1 and 2 years of age
My own girl grew till like 10 months and then havent grown more than max 2 cm in height since, so I'm just guessing that the size of the ear is if not all then almost at the end of growing there (unless they like ours grow the entire life)

Yup... that makes sense :D
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Re: Ear Size

Post by issylupus » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:25 am

Shay won't be 1y.o untill July but her ear size is 10cm.
It's a bit hard to get an acurate measurement as her ears are quite furry so I could'nt see where her actual ear tip was. Hope this help's :D
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Lynwae » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:50 am

I think it would be more accurate if we could know the height at the shoulder of the dogs as well. ^^
Ears cannot be the same if the dog is 80cm at the shoulder or if he is 60. ^^

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Re: Ear Size

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:05 am

Lynwae wrote:I think it would be more accurate if we could know the height at the shoulder of the dogs as well. ^^
Ears cannot be the same if the dog is 80cm at the shoulder or if he is 60. ^^
Last measurement when he was 1yr, he was 28"
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The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Re: Ear Size

Post by AZDehlin » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:22 pm

Doesn't ear size correlate to head size?

Zephyr: 10.5 months old
Ears: 10cm
Height: 68.6 cm
Weight: 32 kg (My scale is always a few pounds heavy.)

Zephyr's head length: 30 cm (from that bump at the back of his head all the way to tip of his nose)
Zephyrs head width: 17cm (taken at the widest par of his head not including fur)

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Re: Ear Size

Post by issylupus » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:51 pm

Shay's height is 62"
Leanth of head from the back of cranial ridge to nose tip is 26"
Cant find my scales so will add it later. :P
Cant get her head width as she just want's to lick my hands all the time !!! :roll:
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Re: Ear Size

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:57 pm

Shay is 62" high? Wow, thought 28" was tall :lol:
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One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

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Re: Ear Size

Post by AZDehlin » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:01 pm

TerriHolt wrote:Shay is 62" high? Wow, thought 28" was tall :lol:
I think she meant 62cm. 28 inches is about 70cm I believe

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Re: Ear Size

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:05 pm

AZDehlin wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:Shay is 62" high? Wow, thought 28" was tall :lol:
I think she meant 62cm. 28 inches is about 70cm I believe
Yeah, i didn't realize it posted the comment before my mobile logged me out :oops: (it doesn't normally :? )...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

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Re: Ear Size

Post by issylupus » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:13 pm

AZDehlin wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:Shay is 62" high? Wow, thought 28" was tall :lol:
I think she meant 62cm. 28 inches is about 70cm I believe
DOHh !!!!Yes, I meant cm :roll: 62 inch is just over 5 foot... Now that would be a big dog !!! as big as me :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ear Size

Post by arianwenarie » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:21 pm

issylupus wrote:
AZDehlin wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:Shay is 62" high? Wow, thought 28" was tall :lol:
I think she meant 62cm. 28 inches is about 70cm I believe
DOHh !!!!Yes, I meant cm :roll: 62 inch is just over 5 foot... Now that would be a big dog !!! as big as me :lol: :lol:
Yep. That would redefine "Giant dog". ;)

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Re: Ear Size

Post by issylupus » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:48 pm

:shock: Yeh, you would'nt need a coller, you'de need a saddle....
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Re: Ear Size

Post by AZDehlin » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:50 pm

issylupus wrote:Shay's height is 62"
Leanth of head from the back of cranial ridge to nose tip is 26"
Cant find my scales so will add it later. :P
Cant get her head width as she just want's to lick my hands all the time !!! :roll:

I wonder if the difference between Shay and Zephyr are just because she is Female and he is Male... Curious to see other dogs from this litters measurements.

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Re: Ear Size

Post by issylupus » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:53 pm

AZDehlin wrote:
issylupus wrote:Shay's height is 62"
Leanth of head from the back of cranial ridge to nose tip is 26"
Cant find my scales so will add it later. :P
Cant get her head width as she just want's to lick my hands all the time !!! :roll:

I wonder if the difference between Shay and Zephyr are just because she is Female and he is Male... Curious to see other dogs from this litters measurements.
I believe it's prety standard that the bitches are smaller.
**Just found my scales in the pot cupboard.. :shock: :?
Shay is still 4 1/2 stone. (29kg)
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Nino » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:23 pm

you guys are great..

But are there ANY chance you can calculate to kg and cm, when measuring you guys doing it 1 time each are going to take much less time than me having to do it for ya'll :lol:
Have to be the same system to calculate after all :)
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:58 am

I have a question:

If the ears grow beyond 16 cm long and the pup is only 2 years of age, would that increase the chance of one or both dropping down floppy and require cropping like how breeders of do that for the doberman? Just my curiousity.
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Nino » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:06 am

It depends on the ear if the ear would drop.

Imho no dog should EVER have it's ears cropped.. there is NO good reason for taking off a part of a healthy and working ear, and it makes me angry even thinking of it!

A big ear is more likely to drop, and would probably need to be taped for a long time to insure that the ear would stay up if it could..
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:14 am

Not to get off topic but I know someone who taped the ear of her labrador up and it stood erect as an adult so I think IF the ear does fall the taping might be a necessary thing. But on the other hand, the ear having fallen floppy would still make it a fault to begin with.
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Re: Ear Size

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:29 am

Cropping for cosmetic reasons only should be illegal with the consequence of the offending owner having their ear cropped! Makes my blood boil! It's like saying "my wolfdog look a like has bigger ears than a wolf... i know, lets cut them smaller".... Needless to say, i would never... just like cropping a dobie's ears because it 'looks better' is wrong...

I can't see the ears getting so big anyway... But if they do get big and floppy, it may have to be something to put up with till there is a big enough gene pool to select breeding dogs with only small ears to reduce size...
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:38 am

Just to make it clear, I don't actually like the idea of cropping ones ear either! In fact, IF I find out that somebody cropped MY pup's ear due to floppiness then I would KILL that person! I was only asking out of curiosity as I know some breeders of Doberman dogs are known the do this to their dogs and was a bit concern about the floppy ear showing up in adult dogs of the Tamaskan breed but I don't support the idea of cutting off parts of the ears just to make them stand up! I'd rather tape it up as a pup like what my former classmate did to her labrador (as this method does not involve cutting parts off) than to seriously hurt the dogs just for looks.
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Re: Ear Size

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:53 am

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:Just to make it clear, I don't actually like the idea of cropping ones ear either! In fact, IF I find out that somebody cropped MY pup's ear due to floppiness then I would KILL that person! I was only asking out of curiosity as I know some breeders of Doberman dogs are known the do this to their dogs and was a bit concern about the floppy ear showing up in adult dogs of the Tamaskan breed but I don't support the idea of cutting off parts of the ears just to make them stand up! I'd rather tape it up as a pup like what my former classmate did to her labrador (as this method does not involve cutting parts off) than to seriously hurt the dogs just for looks.

I know you wouldn't lucas ;)

Ok, seriously off topic but i'm curiously, oddly amused... Why did your class mate tape up a labs ears? They not know they are supposed to be floppy or just curious them selves? :lol:
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Ear Size

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:35 am

TerriHolt wrote: Ok, seriously off topic but i'm curiously, oddly amused... Why did your class mate tape up a labs ears? They not know they are supposed to be floppy or just curious them selves? :lol:
I'll pm you or just tell you on facebook since it's off topic. I'll tell you though that the situation was kind of freaky and yet funny at the same time :D
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Nino » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:25 pm

fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
TerriHolt wrote: Ok, seriously off topic but i'm curiously, oddly amused... Why did your class mate tape up a labs ears? They not know they are supposed to be floppy or just curious them selves? :lol:
I'll pm you or just tell you on facebook since it's off topic. I'll tell you though that the situation was kind of freaky and yet funny at the same time :D
... I want to know too..
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:33 pm

I actually did this for our entire litter:

I measured ear height once a week on the same day every week from week 1 to week 8. I have corresponding weights for all the pups, too. With enough data, I should be able to create a "ear size probability chart" :D Though it will take a while to get enough data.

If I can ever remember how to plot two data sets for nine pups on one spreadsheet, I'll post. My Excel skills are getting rusty...
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:34 pm

Nino wrote:
fangjingtuanlucas wrote:
TerriHolt wrote: Ok, seriously off topic but i'm curiously, oddly amused... Why did your class mate tape up a labs ears? They not know they are supposed to be floppy or just curious them selves? :lol:
I'll pm you or just tell you on facebook since it's off topic. I'll tell you though that the situation was kind of freaky and yet funny at the same time :D
... I want to know too..
:lol: Alright :lol: I'll tell you all but I warn you it's a little freaky and to all you lab owners please don't get any ideas! It's not really right to do this to a lab pup as the breed is meant to have floppy ears.

Anyways, basically she (I'm not writing her name here), was cleaning his ears but the floppiness made it difficult for her. So she decided to tape them up when the pup was only 12 weeks or around that time using duck tape and Popsicle sticks on the front and back. She did not understand the proper standard for the labrador breed to have its ears down but that's beside the point and felt that it would be better to make the dog's ears to stand up straight (just temporarily) so that it would be easier for her to clean them. But afterward she was scared of hurting the dog should taking the tape off give quite a pinch to it so she left them on for a week, she did plan to take him to the vet to let the animal physician do it. Though while the tape were still on, his ears started standing straight kind of like most of these lab-mix here, no those aren't hers but hopefully you get the picture of how the ears look standing up. By the time she finally removed the tapes and the sticks while showering him the ears were still standing up. Basically, she unknowingly altered the appearance of the dog. I've only seen the photo of her dog from a picture she kept in her personal builder and at first thought it was some mutt until that visa student told me about how she accidentally made those ears erect permanently and I was like "你在開玩笑!(you got to be kidding me!)". The dog's fine and behaves like any normal lab, just the ears which on the bright side actually makes it easier to clean now :lol: The dog lives in Hong Kong.

Anyways, again, PLEASE DO NOT try this! This altering the ear was an accident but it's kind of stupid to do this even if you don't like the floppiness of the dog's ears. I don't even know if this will work on an adult lab and even though I like erect ears better it's still wrong in my opinion to make them stand up if they started out floppy.

EDIT: On a side note, in one email Ann Dresselhaus sent me, she also used labs with erect ears in her foundation dogs for the ANCD breed.
Labs: Extremely friendly and extroverted with good retrieve/working drive. Some of the farm labs I saw were huge and healthy monsters. Way better than the show dogs and it was hard to avoid having this breed in a mix since they were/are everywhere and so commonly part of accidental litters. Flop ears gone in second generation from purebred.
So it's possible for labs to have erect ears without this silly process of forcing them to grow standing up but the chances of a pure lab born with erect ears is usually 1 out of 100 and they're not bred from most of the time as that's considered a flaw to most lab breeders.
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Nino » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:08 pm

You misunderstand the last she says Lucas..
The labs didn't have straight ears, but the floppy ears were gone after breeding them into her breeding stock after 2nd generation.


I have never seen a lab with straight ears, but the thing about taping them up is to help them when the ears "settles" if they are bent the ears will build the tissue like that, if they are straight the issue will build the same thickness all over the ear and the ear won't flop anymore (depending on how big the ears are of course).
But you have to tape up while the ears haven't settled which means when the dog is still young.
It is the same thing they do with the Chinese Crested - where the hairless is supposed to show with erect ears but the powder puffs (hairy ones) can show with soft ears.

I see no bad thing about doing it to a lab though, if you aren't going to show anyway, although those mixed pups look totally weird :lol:
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Re: Ear Size

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:15 pm

Hawthorne wrote:I actually did this for our entire litter:

I measured ear height once a week on the same day every week from week 1 to week 8. I have corresponding weights for all the pups, too. With enough data, I should be able to create a "ear size probability chart" :D Though it will take a while to get enough data.

If I can ever remember how to plot two data sets for nine pups on one spreadsheet, I'll post. My Excel skills are getting rusty...
I haven't worked with the more advanced functions of Excel in a couple years, but if you want to send the data over, I can try to throw it together? lol. I was thinking line graph... Each pup will be a different color line; Weight can likely be filled in with a comment (for each data point), ear size will be on the Y axis. Age (in weeks) can be on the X axis.

Let me know if I have confuddled you. XD

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Re: Ear Size

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:22 pm

arianwenarie wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:I actually did this for our entire litter:

I measured ear height once a week on the same day every week from week 1 to week 8. I have corresponding weights for all the pups, too. With enough data, I should be able to create a "ear size probability chart" :D Though it will take a while to get enough data.

If I can ever remember how to plot two data sets for nine pups on one spreadsheet, I'll post. My Excel skills are getting rusty...
I haven't worked with the more advanced functions of Excel in a couple years, but if you want to send the data over, I can try to throw it together? lol. I was thinking line graph... Each pup will be a different color line; Weight can likely be filled in with a comment (for each data point), ear size will be on the Y axis. Age (in weeks) can be on the X axis.

Let me know if I have confuddled you. XD
Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking: a line graph with a different color line for each pup. One axis would be weight, the other, ear height. I did use Excel a lot in my career as a Chem student (Chem I, Chem II and Organic)...but it's been over 10 years now...yipe! If I can't figure it out, I'll share it with you and maybe we can get two brain cells to synapse together and figure it out. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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arianwenarie
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Re: Ear Size

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:25 pm

Hawthorne wrote:
arianwenarie wrote:I haven't worked with the more advanced functions of Excel in a couple years, but if you want to send the data over, I can try to throw it together? lol. I was thinking line graph... Each pup will be a different color line; Weight can likely be filled in with a comment (for each data point), ear size will be on the Y axis. Age (in weeks) can be on the X axis.

Let me know if I have confuddled you. XD
Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking: a line graph with a different color line for each pup. One axis would be weight, the other, ear height. I did use Excel a lot in my career as a Chem student (Chem I, Chem II and Organic)...but it's been over 10 years now...yipe! If I can't figure it out, I'll share it with you and maybe we can get two brain cells to synapse together and figure it out. :lol: :lol: :lol:
LOL! Well, you know how to contact me. Remember: Google Docs is your friend for sharing. :) Though, the Excel component in Google Docs probably isn't advanced enough to do what we want to do with the 'oh, so good' data. :D

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Re: Ear Size

Post by Nino » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:40 pm

Else I'm normally pretty neat with Excel, so if you need a 3th brain cell please do speak up :lol:
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Re: Ear Size

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:56 pm

Nino wrote:Else I'm normally pretty neat with Excel, so if you need a 3th brain cell please do speak up :lol:
Haha. Google Docs allows sharing and collaborating in real time...WITH a revision history where you can go back to a previous revision. LUUUURVE IT. /end off-topic/geek ness :lol:

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Re: Ear Size

Post by Tiantai » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:01 pm

I see, yeah the lab was a pup and still growing so that's probably how he ended up with tissues building up firmly to a straight position
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Re: Ear Size

Post by Rhokk » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:09 pm

Nino wrote:Else I'm normally pretty neat with Excel, so if you need a 3th brain cell please do speak up :lol:
I'm proficient with Excel as well, that makes 4! xD

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Re: Ear Size

Post by Nino » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:11 pm

woop woop, we might make an entire brain in time :D
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Re: Ear Size

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:13 pm

There's two halves to the brain and we now have 4 sections...I'd think that qualifies as an entire brain, yes?

Btw, Nino, will you be graphic all of this data to see if there's a trend? :D

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Re: Ear Size

Post by Nino » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:28 pm

arianwenarie wrote:There's two halves to the brain and we now have 4 sections...I'd think that qualifies as an entire brain, yes?

Btw, Nino, will you be graphic all of this data to see if there's a trend? :D
If I get enough numbers to actually give a breed median I will surely post something for you guys to see :)

Just so far there isn't enough at all, and I haven't even measured my own girl yet :lol:
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