NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Everything about Tamaskan Dogs that does not fit within the other topics in this section.
Rahne

NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Rahne » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:12 pm

Hi all,

As you all know things have been a bit of a mess since we formed a new TDR committee. We basically had to start from scratch again as we never received any paperwork/documents from the old TDR secretary. So we had to create new paperwork, order new materials and set up a bank/paypal account etc. Finally we are all set to register new litters and dogs :D

New Registration System
We have decided to work with 3 registration types (instead of just 1), depending on certain conditions. You can read more about this here: http://www.tamaskan-dog.org/registry/li ... gistration
We have also slightly adjusted the numbering system so we don't get duplicate reg numbers in databases like OFA.

New number format: TDR 00400G2/2012

For new registrations we have started at (00)400 as one of the last known pups to be registered under the 'old' TDR has been registered as 384G3. G2 is the generation, in this case 2nd generation Tamaskan and 2012 is the year of registration.

All new registered dogs/pups will be added in the online public database here: http://www.tamaskan-dog.org/database/home

New Registration Documents
We have created new registration documents. Here's an image:
photoR.jpg
The paper is textured and slightly thicker then normal print paper. There's a watermark in the background of the TDR logo and a gold seal with the logo embossed. This to give a professional look and to make it difficult to forge.

We give owners the opportunity to order new paperwork for their dog(s) to replace the old ones for half the normal fee. If anyone wants to order new paperwork then please mail me at: rahne@tamaskan-dog.org

Fees
* Registration of a new litter: £8 per pup
* New documents to replace old ones: £4 per dog + £2 postage/handling fee. So in case you want to order new documents for 2 dogs, £4 x 2 = £8 + £2 = £10 total
* New documents to replace incorrect paperwork (wrong pedigree, registration numbering etc.): £1 per dog + £2 postage/handling fee.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:28 pm

Looks fantastic! :D I'm glad the seal came out well.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:35 pm

Can't wait to order new paperwork for all of my Tams and throw out the rubbish old ones, which were full of mistakes/typos and blanks in the pedigree(s). :)
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:40 pm

That looks pretty awesome... wouldn't mind paying for a new one :D (and it will have correct linage! YAY! :D )
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by AZDehlin » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:32 pm

Yay, love the way they have turned out, think I will have to get one for Zephyr. Will we be able to get a 5 generation pedigree also?

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Katlin » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:34 pm

Looks fan-freakin-tastic
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:00 am

I like the fact that there are now 3 types of registration to differentiate quality of dogs produced. :) Love the new paperwork too! :D

But here's a rather stupid question...will paperwork and/or the database reflect the type of registration a particular dog has?

Rahne

Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Rahne » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:15 am

AZDehlin wrote:Will we be able to get a 5 generation pedigree also?
I was considering doing that, if people are interested.
arianwenarie wrote: But here's a rather stupid question...will paperwork and/or the database reflect the type of registration a particular dog has?
Yes, in case of a conditional/limited registration it will be listed on the paperwork and I will also think of something for the database.

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Tiantai » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:41 pm

If my memory is correct, I have seen the screenshots of a few of the old registration papers including the pedigrees on facebook in the past, particularly the few photos comparing the old TDR's registration certificate to the horrible-looking fake ones forged by that notorious scammer but even then I, too, honestly thought that the quality of the papers for the real ones looked a bit out-dated. With these new updated registration documents that Rahne has released, however, I am now more confident to say that the old registration papers are a thing of the past! :D You rock Rahne! I am so jealous of your talent :mrgreen:
Rahne wrote:
AZDehlin wrote:Will we be able to get a 5 generation pedigree also?
I was considering doing that, if people are interested.
Excellent! I love that idea! :D
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Nino » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:30 pm

Tiantai wrote:If my memory is correct, I have seen the screenshots of a few of the old registration papers including the pedigrees on facebook in the past, particularly the few photos comparing the old TDR's registration certificate to the horrible-looking fake ones forged by that notorious scammer but even then I, too, honestly thought that the quality of the papers for the real ones looked a bit out-dated. With these new updated registration documents that Rahne has released, however, I am now more confident to say that the old registration papers are a thing of the past! :D You rock Rahne! I am so jealous of your talent :mrgreen:
Rahne wrote:
AZDehlin wrote:Will we be able to get a 5 generation pedigree also?
I was considering doing that, if people are interested.
Excellent! I love that idea! :D
You do know that all the Committee have worked on these right? :lol:

We talked about the 5 gen earlier but I think we agreed that getting these papers done first was more important :)
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:23 pm

I ordered all new paperwork for our three Tams, plus our Yellowstone Litter will be receiving corrected pedigrees. Yay!
Thank you for this. How could folks take us seriously without professional looking documents?
Cheers to the TDR Committee :D
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Nino » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:26 pm

Hawthorne wrote:How could folks take us seriously without professional looking documents?
Totally agree with you there!
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by AZDehlin » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:29 pm

Nino wrote:
We talked about the 5 gen earlier but I think we agreed that getting these papers done first was more important :)
Think it should be and option when people are requesting new forms to cut down the amount of packages to be shipped cause I am finding worldwide shipping is not going to be cheap to ship and to cut down on my cost bringing it to the post office.

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Nino » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:15 pm

AZDehlin wrote:
Nino wrote:
We talked about the 5 gen earlier but I think we agreed that getting these papers done first was more important :)
Think it should be and option when people are requesting new forms to cut down the amount of packages to be shipped cause I am finding worldwide shipping is not going to be cheap to ship and to cut down on my cost bringing it to the post office.
True
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Tiantai » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:30 am

Nino wrote:
You do know that all the Committee have worked on these right? :lol:

We talked about the 5 gen earlier but I think we agreed that getting these papers done first was more important :)
:lol: Oops, to clarify, I meant to say thank you to Rahne for releasing this new updated information to the public. I am very excited to see these new ones as well. When I get Jogye, my first dog, I will put his beautiful registration paper on my wall in my bedroom like some kind of Canine award and should I need to show some document I can always take it off and show it to prove he's my dog.

I still like the 5 generation idea :P
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Misaya » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:23 am

Nino wrote: You do know that all the Committee have worked on these right? :lol:
And I think HiTenshi16 and AZDehlin also deserve a mention and a big thank you too :)
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by HiTenshi16 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:53 am

Misaya wrote:
Nino wrote: You do know that all the Committee have worked on these right? :lol:
And I think HiTenshi16 and AZDehlin also deserve a mention and a big thank you too :)
:mrgreen: :oops:
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:18 pm

Misaya wrote:
Nino wrote: You do know that all the Committee have worked on these right? :lol:
And I think HiTenshi16 and AZDehlin also deserve a mention and a big thank you too :)
Thank you to you 2 too :D

Well everyone who had a hand in it has done a fantastic job! THIS is the reason the Tamaskan will thrive... Dedication,, hard work and exceptional team work over a vast distance (and time zones) and amazing ideas...
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Sylvaen » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:11 pm

Misaya wrote:
Nino wrote: You do know that all the Committee have worked on these right? :lol:
And I think HiTenshi16 and AZDehlin also deserve a mention and a big thank you too :)
Definitely! Their contribution has been invaluable - really great work! :D
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Nino » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:16 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
Misaya wrote:
Nino wrote: You do know that all the Committee have worked on these right? :lol:
And I think HiTenshi16 and AZDehlin also deserve a mention and a big thank you too :)
Definitely! Their contribution has been invaluable - really great work! :D
Definately those two too!! (and a few other people on other stuff - you know who you are ;) )
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Tiantai » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:40 pm

Hmm. I THINK that I know who those people are but I'm just NOT SURE... :geek:
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Ciaobella » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:50 am

I'm super late to the party, but this looks wonderful! After a hiatus it's nice to come back and see some wonderful progress :D Keep up the good work!!!
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by TeresaC » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:29 am

Kudos to all of you on the hard work and professional looking pedigree!

I will be ordering a replacement soon!!
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by nivenj » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:46 am

Can I ask what the process if for those that Paid the TDR for the change of details at first registration and are still awaiting their certificates. I've been waiting 8 months and still do not have the certificate. Dont really care if its the old version or New one, but I would like one or the other.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Rahne » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:17 am

nivenj wrote:Can I ask what the process if for those that Paid the TDR for the change of details at first registration and are still awaiting their certificates. I've been waiting 8 months and still do not have the certificate. Dont really care if its the old version or New one, but I would like one or the other.
* New documents to replace incorrect paperwork (wrong pedigree, registration numbering etc.): £1 per dog + £2 postage/handling fee.

Or you can try to get what you paid for from Jennie.

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by nivenj » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:10 am

Thanks Rahne, I did read that option, but it doesn't apply here as this is not a replacement for incorrect, this is supplying the registration certificate for a change of owner, when you buy your Tamaskan.

Not entirely sure what you mean by contacting Jennie? Is Jennie now back on the TDR Committee and responsible for Registrations again?
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Nino » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:53 am

nivenj wrote:Thanks Rahne, I did read that option, but it doesn't apply here as this is not a replacement for incorrect, this is supplying the registration certificate for a change of owner, when you buy your Tamaskan.

Not entirely sure what you mean by contacting Jennie? Is Jennie now back on the TDR Committee and responsible for Registrations again?
No Jennie is NOT back on the TDR Committee and most likely will never be, the problem is that all the money went TO Jennie (or Lynn or whom ever) and these people are no longer in the TDR Committee, and the money and Information that they "kept" for the Tamaskan Dog Register they have declined to "hand over" so as it is now "we" (the TDR Committee) have never received any money for "replacement" (which includes in the "change of ownership" in this case I would agree with Rahne in) of papers. The money for "replacement papers" really is really ONLY what printing and postage costs and if "we" (The Committee) were to send out these without a charge it would be money taken from our own personal pockets, i.e. as the current TDR Committee have started out from scratch with everything because of the unwillingness of Lynn and Jennie "we" have at the moment around no money to spare that would else have been used to take care of such situations as the one you are in now where you have paid Jennie and I suppose she have used the money for something else than she should have.. but I cannot say for sure of course..
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by nivenj » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:17 am

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying. It was the TDR's representative that I paid. If that representative has absconded with the club funds then that is a matter between the TDR committee and the individual. I purchased a TDR registered dog, and paid the TDR the registration fee's. If I have to recover the monies paid, it would be the TDR I would have to pursue as Jennie was acting in capacity and with the full approval/backing of the TDR.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Rahne » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:24 am

You might be right BUT can you really expect me or anyone else paying for all the new documents out of our own pockets because of the mess Jennie and Lynn left us with?? I'm at home right now, no job, and in debt... and I know other TDR committee members are in similar positions. So what do you expect we do about it. :?

If you want new paperwork then you will have to pay to cover the posting and printing expenses. If you paid Jennie for something and SHE never delivered then you need to get your money back from her.

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by nivenj » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:37 am

I'll file the necessary claim against the TDR via the small claims court in this case. Thanks for making the TDR position clear on this. It will help.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Nino » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:12 pm

nivenj wrote:I'll file the necessary claim against the TDR via the small claims court in this case. Thanks for making the TDR position clear on this. It will help.
You will have to notice when you paid the money, to whom and when the TDR as a registered Organization/Company was registered with the Companies House.
To be perfectly honest I do not think that anyone can claim that the CURRENT TDR Committee have to pay out of own pocket for something that you paid to, at the time you did so, a non-registered organization, which I am pretty sure then will be seen as a personal transfer of money, even more so because the person you transferred the money to have never officially been within the officially recognized and registered Organization/Company that is under the Companies House of United Kingdom.

We are willing to send you papers (notice more than willing, as we are really trying to fix up a lot of things!), but this also means that you like anyone else that wants replacements has/need to pay the minimum that is needed for the printing and postage, an amount that is more than fair!

However much we would like to send you replacement papers to make up for the mistreat you have been subjected we are not in a position where this is possible!
As Rahne say more than one of the current Committee Members are at the moment Un-employed (Eg. both Rahne and I have recently finished our Education and in the current time in history getting a job as a newly graduate is not easy cake) and it is simply neither fair nor possible that the individual Committee members pay out of own pocket (more than have already been done, which I can ensure you HAVE already been done when paying for eg. purchase of necessary needed supplies to produce papers, and which will have to be paid back again).


Sorry to say, but it is not only you that suffers under the doings of Jennie and Lynn, I can personally assure you that I myself and several others in the Committee, have and are going to loose more money on their behalf than you can imagine because of their ill intentions, which only adds to why I do not think it is fair that we personally should take care of your loss of 3 GBP (for new printing and postage) which by all means can be called minor to some of the other stuff going on behind the scenes..

I am sorry to say so, but we have all been deceived in this matter, even by simple things like the Tamaskan Dog Register (or even Wolfwide or what Jennie called her company) even being registered or existing.. it has been one big con up until the new TDR committee stepped up (which also includes leading the other Committee members behind the light on a lot of things)!
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by nivenj » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:04 pm

:o

After all the pain and effort you guys went through to "ensure" that it was clear that the TDR continued as an organisation, and that you accepted Jennies resignation from the TDR and that Lynn was removed from the TDR, you now claim the two are separate?. As was pointed out in the discussions back in August, just because the TDR was not registered, does not mean it wasnt a legal entity and as such, it was not a personal transfer of monies but payment for services rendered by the TDR.

I am truly sorry that you are out of work. However, you have Registered as directors of the company and as such are Liable in law. If you are unable to discharge your duties as such you should not have accepted the position.

Its not the £3 thats the issue, its the principle. I "will" process this through the small claims court in principle, where I will also be including the costs of submitting the claim and reasonable administration costs in doing so.

Just to let any BTC members know, If you are in a similar situation, and did not receive or have incorrect paperwork, please let me know on the BTC forum, and the BTC will cover the replacement cost of your registration document as part of your membership.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Rahne » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:32 pm

Principles... right, good luck with that Jim.

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by weylyn » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:35 pm

Sorry I can understand both sides here but to make a claim of it because they will stay standing for all these people who are in it together???? Well just very simple let the TDR be register as broke and bankrupt and start all over in name like 2TDR and problem solved because than the issue as placed stay by the TDR and if I am right Lynn and Jenny still carry this name also ;)

For seconds I think it is more up to your breeder whre you got your dog from because I am gonna tell you if you claim the TDR for it you will lose and the message you will get is go to your breeder because that is the one that is responsible for it all and that is the person who signed the contract. If you do not have any contract you have sadly nothing to stand with

So don't know the real issue here but just scaring people with these words is a bit childish sorry

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:42 pm

nivenj wrote:Just to let any BTC members know, If you are in a similar situation, and did not receive or have incorrect paperwork, please let me know on the BTC forum, and the BTC will cover the replacement cost of your registration document as part of your membership.
I honestly don't mind paying for my own. Yes something as little as £3 is a lot for me right now but i made the mistake, just like everyone else did, of trusting Lynn and Jennie. I can't, conscience free, expect anyone to pay for my bad judgement (i could have gone with a GSD or husky but instead i chose to believe them).
They screwed everybody, puppy buyers, breeders and fellow committee members... Everybody they have ever talked with, laughed with, made friends with... They lied to them all.
Now that £3 is a lot for me, i couldn't even begin to imagine how covering the cost of everyone's £3's is going to mount up.
The people stepped up to be the directors, to save the breed sinking... Now, to me, that is worth more than i have to pay out. Lynn and Jennie have taken the money and gone, just like typical con men.

The registration price and pedigree was supposed to be included in the price of the pup which means i'm confused as to why you had to pay to transfer ownership/fix their error in the first place :? Jennie told me she would do me another pedigree and give me my registration documents that i never got to star with and i could pick them up with my wasn't-meant-to-be pup... No mention of charges...

But that's just me... You obviously have bones to pick and won't be happy till you do. I just hope you don't jeopardize the future of the breed by bankrupting everyone because for me, the future is more important than the past, i've been angry and have since put things in perspective and identified whats important. Yes, if it was an organization with an income, then yes, i wold have expected a free replacement of what i should have gotten to start with but as it happens... it's not a huge organization with a big income...

Just saying...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Sylvaen » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:23 pm

TerriHolt wrote:The registration price and pedigree was supposed to be included in the price of the pup which means i'm confused as to why you had to pay to transfer ownership/fix their error in the first place :?
This is correct.
TerriHolt wrote:I purchased a TDR registered dog, and paid the TDR the registration fee's.
This is not right.
The BREEDER must pay the TDR for the registration of their litter(s) - the TDR then issues registration documents to the BREEDER for the breeder to hand out to the new owners of each puppy. If you got a puppy directly from a breeder, the paperwork should have been included as part of the purchase price of the puppy.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't your male pup from Pete Saxon? As the breeder of that litter, Pete Saxon should have provided the registration papers to all of the puppy owners at the time of delivery (and I believe he did, as I got the paperwork directly from him for Zora). IF you are missing any documentation from him, you should contact him so that he can mail it to you immediately.

YOU should not have had to pay ANY "registration fees" for your puppy! If you gave any 'registration' money to Jennie then, it sounds like she owes you a refund, not the TDR. The TDR never received ANY of that money from Jennie... and if she collected it on behalf of the TDR then that probably constitutes as fraud. The same goes for any donations, etc that she 'collected' on behalf of the TDR over the years, which she took with her when she left (or had been spending all along) - we simply don't know because she had full access and control over her bank account, and the financial records and account details were never provided to the TDR at any time, least of all when they left, despite our requests for them to provide it (along with all health test records, pedigrees, etc).

You may be more informed about this than I, but I believe that in terms of getting access to any of that stuff (legally) our hands are simply tied. Perhaps you could clarify the steps that we should take to gain legal access to the TDR property that was taken by Lynn and Jennie when they left? I am of the (rather uninformed) opinion that there's simply not much that can be done. I suppose if we were very rich we could hire a good lawyer and take them to court over it?

Personally, I am very sorry that you (like so many others) were also scammed / conned by Lynn and Jennie and I sincerely hope that you can recover your money from them. If you paid by credit card or PayPal, perhaps you can file a reimbursement claim with PayPal or your Credit Card company. I believe that Jennie still owns and controls the bank / PayPal account into which people were depositing funds "for the TDR" - in fact, I think they are still issuing 'TDR registration paperwork' for the (unregistered) puppies that they are currently producing... but I don't think any funds are being deposited into their TDR PayPal account any more, since they are the only 2 breeders and I doubt they are paying money for their puppy registrations from their own personal bank accounts into their own TDR PayPal account - it's all one and the same anyway. I'm not sure if they are defrauding other people into paying money into their 'TDR PayPal account' but I would assume that, if they were, then it would be an issue between the person who was scammed/conned and the individuals doing the conning and scamming... not the legitimate organization itself, which has no access (and never had access) to those funds or that account.

Perhaps I am wrong but IF someone convinces me to pay £100 into their personal 'Coca-Cola PayPal account' (registered using the Coca-Cola@gmail.com email address, with funds going directly from that PayPal account into their own personal bank account) for any reason including fraudulently, ie on behalf of the official COCA-COLA organization, then surely that 'someone' who owns/manages/controls the personal 'Coca-Cola PayPal account' is responsible, not the legitimate COCA-COLA organization, which is completely separate and has its own official (legal) bank accounts? (even if the person controlling the Coca-Cola PayPal account happens to be a former manager at the official COCA-COLA organization?)

Come to think of it, I believe that Lynn and Jennie still owe ME around £15 for items I purchased via the TDSGB online shop, which were never delivered - since you are now running the BTC (the UK Tamaskan Club with some of the same Committee Members from the former TDSGB) does that mean that I should now hold the BTC responsible to cover that debt? Isn't it pretty much the same exact scenario? Please let me know!

The TDR is now starting from scratch and offering replacement documentation at the bare cost of production + shipping... this is proper paperwork that includes a watermark, foil stamp, full pedigree and full disclosure of all health test results. (This is the sum of a lot of volunteer work that went on behind the scenes over the past couple of months.) This is a fresh beginning and personally I'm willing to put aside the £15 that I lost out on for the TDSGB's non-delivery of purchased goods, simply because there are more important matters to deal with: rebuilding and moving on to a better future. As you said yourself, it all boils down to principles......
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by MelB » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:33 pm

nivenj wrote::o

After all the pain and effort you guys went through to "ensure" that it was clear that the TDR continued as an organisation, and that you accepted Jennies resignation from the TDR and that Lynn was removed from the TDR, you now claim the two are separate?. As was pointed out in the discussions back in August, just because the TDR was not registered, does not mean it wasnt a legal entity and as such, it was not a personal transfer of monies but payment for services rendered by the TDR.
Surely, any court will look at the date of incorporation of the TDR and the date you paid the funds to Jennie and realise that the "TDR company" was set up after the date you paid Jennie? Was it made payable to "The TDR" or to "Jennie"? I know my payment, made way back when, was to the actual breeder (Jennie) not to "the TDR", so although it is dreadful that Jennie has taken your money and run off without without providing the goods you paid for (anyone who bought a Tam with a false pedigree could say that too), I really don't see how you can possibly think that a new committee, in a newly incorporated body should have to pay for someone acting alone. We've all been conned and had money taken from us for "goods" (dogs) that were not as described. I got a dog that was supposed to have no wolf & come from health tested parents. What I got is a dog that is part CsV with very severe hip dysplasia from parents that were knowingly causing problems. Are you suggesting I take the NEW TDR committee members to court to get my money back when my contract was with the breeder (Jennie)?

If I decided to call myself a TDR committee member & con people out of money, would you expect Rahne, Nino, Debbie, John et. al. to pay those who were conned back?

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:37 pm

Sylvaen wrote:YOU should not have had to pay ANY "registration fees" for your puppy!. If you gave any 'registration' money to Jennie then, it sounds like she owes you a refund, not the TDR.
That's the bit i don't get. She should not have even requested it because she was not his breeder... which seems to me she was taking money off people who was willing to give her it. But even if she was his breeder, all costs are covered in puppy price...
I went to Jennie for my documents because, when i went for Sam, Pete told me Lynn dealt with all the paper work because he was new to it all and she helped him a lot by putting it all together so it made sense to go to those who dealt with and made the paper work for that litter.
I'm sure if Jim had have gone to his breeder (Pete), he would have been more than willing to provide anything that was missing :?
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by nivenj » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:47 pm

@Terri

The Registration Document I got from the Breeder had their Details on it. There was a £7 admin fee to have the records amended to the new Owner and a replacement Certificate issued. This was printed on the rear of the certificate as was the details of the fee required and who it should be made payable to (Tamaskan Dog Register).

Thanks for your reply Terri, what you write does make sense and put it in another light. I was a little incensed by the Official response and let my emotions get the better of me. I dont have any bones to grind and do not wish anyone any harm, just despise double standards. Ho Hum, thats my penance for coming back on here :-S I'll get back in my box now.

@Mel

Jennie was not acting alone, she was the TDR secretary. She didnt just decide to call herself a committees member (as per your example), she was a bone fide accepted member and conducted herself on behalf of the TDR.

The TDR have made it very clear that there has, and only ever has been 1 TDR, and hence why they sent correspondence to Lynn and Jenny telling them they had to cease and desist the use of the name. They have only incorporated the name to "protect" the TDR entity. It was not a new formation.

That said, In reality I don't care. I just reacted to the dismissive response i got when I asked a fairly simple question.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:57 pm

nivenj wrote:@Terri

The Registration Document I got from the Breeder had their Details on it. There was a £7 admin fee to have the records amended to the new Owner and a replacement Certificate issued. This was printed on the rear of the certificate as was the details of the fee required and who it should be made payable to (Tamaskan Dog Register).
I did not get one of those :| Lynn missed it out my puppy pack thingy...

I think i'm having a slow day :oops: , i still don't understand why you needed to pay to register you as new owner when it's all covered in puppy price and if it was indeed a mistake, that was not your responsibility either. Was your boy supposed to go to someone else and got registered to that someone else? There for needing to amend ownership (like i said, i'm having a slow day :oops: , not slept in 48+ hours)...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Sylvaen » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:00 pm

nivenj wrote:The Registration Document I got from the Breeder had their Details on it. There was a £7 admin fee to have the records amended to the new Owner and a replacement Certificate issued. This was printed on the rear of the certificate as was the details of the fee required and who it should be made payable to (Tamaskan Dog Register).
I believe that this cost should be the responsibility of the person who is selling the puppy (either the breeder or the former owner who is selling on the puppy to a new owner) as part of the purchase price - not the responsibly of the purchaser/new owner. Though mistakes can happen, paperwork can go missing, etc and I suppose that some new owners would rather just take that responsibility upon themselves (directly with the TDR, rather than through their breeder, especially if that breeder no longer owns or breeds Tamaskans).... just for the sake of less hassle, etc. It's disappointing to hear that you never received what you paid for and I really hope you get your money back (I will also try to get my money back from Lynn and Jennie for the TDSGB products, now that you raised this issue).

Furthermore, I was aware that there was a small fee to issue replacement 'new ownership' documents but I am surprised to hear the amount as I had no idea that the price (admin fee) was £7! I will double-check the paperwork that I was issued back in 2008/2009 as I believe the price was then listed at £5 (or perhaps even 5 euros!). So it seems that the price must have been secretly raised without the knowledge or consent of the rest of the TDR Committee...

A similar same thing happened with several breeders who were charged varying prices (by Jennie) for TDR litter registration. (In 2010, I was charged £5 per puppy to register my litter... when another breeder, in America, was charged double that amount...) - I guess the price fluctuated depending on how much cash they needed at the time, and it's just not right. Definitely very shady business practices, but this all only just came to light recently. :oops:

I'm also hoping that you would be willing to get the new (proper) TDR paperwork instead, which looks 100000x more professional and 'official' - not littered with typos and spelling mistakes and incorrect pedigree info, etc. As a breeder, I wish I'd never paid Jennie £5 per puppy for such amateurish registration documents to hand out to the new owners of pups from my first litter - for that matter, I think I will purchase replacement paperwork for the puppy owners of my (so far, one and only) litter because this is an issue that I do feel very strongly about. (It's not about money, but principles as you say.) :)
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Nino » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:28 pm

Just to clear up what I meant, I was talking from what I believe would be the legal standpoint of how the Tamaskan Dog Register was seen.
Since it was only officially registered a couple of months ago I do doubt that any legal point of view would be that the official registered TDR should pay for any of the non registered part of it.

I really wish I could give you a better answer than this, I wish that it was possible to have a laywer file a suit against Jennie who did resign but would not hand over any papers or money, which really is the big issue here!
Had it been possible (had Jennie and Lynn handed over what rightfully belongs to the official and recognized TDR) and the funds have been there then I would personally have insisted on all replacement papers being done free but doing that without the funds would mean that people personally would have to pay for mistakes done by others, and I can simply not see how that would be fair. If that means that the Committee then should not have stepped up to try and pick up the pieces of what have been messed up, it would most likely have meant that no one would wish to step up and then all would have been done up until then would be in vain and most likely the breed would not succeed...
>> Nino <<
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by MelB » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:17 pm

Let's face it, people who would stoop so low as to run off with charity funds - (At the 2011 UK show the (apparently) £30 charity pot was to be split between Cindy, John's poisoned dogs & another dog. Ironically £10 was what I'd put in and no-one has seen so much as a penny of it!) - are not going to think twice about running off with the "admin" fees when they see themselves as being the TDR. The Blus thought they were the TDR (despite there being a committee) and that the TDR pockets were their own pockets.

And yes Lynn & Jennie did charge an additional £7 on collection of puppies to "transfer registration paperwork from the breeder to the buyer".

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Tiantai » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:31 pm

Yeah the Blus are still under their own delusions that they own the TDR. If my memory is correct, I think some of the TBA people might have raised a similar issue to this one in the past but back then many, including myself, shrugged much of it off as we were still under Lynn and Jennie's spells. Now if only I can go back and find those posts on facebook and other forums that I saw because seeing the problem coming up to light once more this time on our own official TDR forum, I think that the posts made by some of the people whom I once saw as attempting to demonize the TDR at the time were actually trying to allude that something wasn't right with the Blus. Warning signs, in my opinion now, that I completely missed or just didn't believe them. Out of respectt, I am not going to name those people here in the public. All I can say now is that I hope that with a fresh start the TDR will eventually be able to correct all those wrong informations that were made in some of the old registration documents as a result of the Blus messing things around in the past and that those who were conned into paying for the stuff they did not recieve will get back the money that they lost. Even if some don't get back the money, I hope they at least recover something that was rightfully theirs.

Side note: I've recently noticed that Jennie had finally de-friended a lot of people on facebook today. I don't know exactly why she waited this long to do so but I think she and Lynn might have kept some of us as friends solely to see who is still supporting them and who, like myself, has finally turned against them. I suspect that they might still be lurking here on this forum with a sockpuppet account or someone here is leaking informations out to them. Well, whatever the case is, that doesn't bother me too much though since most of the Tamaskan community is no longer under their spells and them logging in here will just result with them seeing more of their messes coming back at them and rubbed in their faces in certain topics like this one. :D They can go ahead and call all the complaints here "rumour" if they like but we're definitely not falling for that crap again.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Tarheel » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:59 pm

Jim,
As a breeder, when I had a litter prior to the restructuring of the TDR, I would send the TDR Secretary (Jennie) an email of the Puppy Names, sex, color, micro-chip number, and the owners details. I paid a fee for each puppy for their registration of $10 USD per puppy. Jennie would then send the registations to me, and I would inturn send the registrations to the owners. It is the breeders responsibility to provide the papers. If your breeder supplied you with papers not in your name, your breeder was wrong.
If Jennie requested money from you, that was wrong also.
We as the TDR committe are trying to start new and do things right. In doing so, we are starting from ground zero with no funds. If we were established and had funds coming in, the story would be different, we could afford to eat the costs of supplies and postage. The TDR Comittee realized that people would come forward with incorrect papers and want them fixed. Being that Initial start up takes money, some of us purchased the supplies out of pocket to get things operating. I personaly donated over $150.00 by purchasing supplies so we could have these certficates, and I was not the only one donating time, money, and supplies.
I understand your displeasure. If it will make you feel any better, I will cover your processing fee postage. Just PM me privately your address and I will send you $5.00 USD cash to cover your out of pocket money.
What we want in the TDR, is people to be happy and be apart of our community.
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by nivenj » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:12 pm

:D Thanks John, but as I said, it was not and never was an issue about the cost. I understand and appreciate the costs associated with starting afresh. As you know the TDSGB was also run by the blu's so we have had to start the UK National club from scratch. So far i'm still £400 out of pocket in getting it up off the ground, so believe me...I understand where your coming. from. It would't be so bad if the interest in membership had materialised, but alas, it hasn't so far :-)
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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:20 pm

nivenj wrote:It would't be so bad if the interest in membership had materialised, but alas, it hasn't so far :-)
A lot of members, some from the uk, seem to have detached from the forum. The maine coon breeder (who i was hoping to approach for a maine coon kitten, shame :( ) seems to have followed lynn across (as well as a few others)... That another possible member down :cry:
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by Finn1 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:30 pm

It does make you think though, how much money did they walk away with? money that wasn't theirs to have. I liken Lynn to a second hand car salesperson (forgive me any decent car salespeople on the forum :))The UK club is blighted by the Blu's more than any other I would think. We have them in direct competition with the BTC, trying to get interest is really hard. I really understand Jim's frustration with all of this.

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:42 pm

They must have a made a killin at uk shows (which they continue to hold). The 1st one i went to (one before last) they had collections for Tarheel dogs, i've be been wondering since they left with everything, did John and Tina see any of the money? My funds were limited but i still chipped in to help as well as others :|
Finn1 wrote:I liken Lynn to a second hand car salesperson (forgive me any decent car salespeople on the forum )
^ Yes! But you can check the history of the car shop before you get duped...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: NEW DOG/LITTER REGISTRATION SYSTEM

Post by MelB » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:34 pm

TerriHolt wrote:They must have a made a killin at uk shows (which they continue to hold). The 1st one i went to (one before last) they had collections for Tarheel dogs, i've be been wondering since they left with everything, did John and Tina see any of the money? My funds were limited but i still chipped in to help as well as others :|
Finn1 wrote:I liken Lynn to a second hand car salesperson (forgive me any decent car salespeople on the forum )
^ Yes! But you can check the history of the car shop before you get duped...
that collection was also to be shared with Cindy and another dog. Jennie told me there was £30 in the pot. Ironically £10 of that was money that I'd put in. No one has been given a penny of it. Only the lowest of the low steal from charities in my book.

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