What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

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What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:31 pm

I would really appreciate everyone's input into what the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog might be...

Are we a companion breed? A working dog? What is this breed's purpose?

Your answer should dictate which breeds are used as foundation stock.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:06 am

For me, I think of the Tamaskan as the answer to owning a dog that resembles a wolf without being a high content wolfdog (or mid or even low content), something easier to handle. Still be a smart dog, be able to do agility, sledding, hiking, great with small animals and children.
That is how I kind of view them at least.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by wen » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:34 pm

I would say : an active companion dog, which, as said HiTenshi is polyvalent
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:31 am

What you two are describing is an all around working dog. Would you agree with this?
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Nino » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:52 am

This is what I would like.. but the question is, if we want the Tamaskan to look like a Wolf, is it possible to have a dog that is suitable for all round working?
Should we maybe analyze the Wolf before we look at what the Tamaskan SHOULD be?
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:19 am

Nino wrote:This is what I would like.. but the question is, if we want the Tamaskan to look like a Wolf, is it possible to have a dog that is suitable for all round working?
Should we maybe analyze the Wolf before we look at what the Tamaskan SHOULD be?
That is what i've been trying to put into words... Could something that looks like a wolf, down to the skeleton, do the jobs we are asking of it? I know the arctic breeding but with the enhancements been made to that, is it still good to get them to do the same jobs?
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:02 pm

TerriHolt wrote:That is what i've been trying to put into words... Could something that looks like a wolf, down to the skeleton, do the jobs we are asking of it? I know the arctic breeding but with the enhancements been made to that, is it still good to get them to do the same jobs?
I think, to a degree: YES. Certainly on a recreational level and, depending on the individual dog, perhaps to a professional level... but a general all-round dog will have a hard time 'competing' against dogs of a particular breed that have been bred for decades (in some cases, centuries) for a very specific purpose. Obviously if someone wanted to compete (on a high professional / top level standard) in dog sledding, agility, tracking, or obedience then they would get a husky/malamute, collie / shepherd, bloodhound, and German Shepherd (respectively) instead - a breed that has been specifically bred for that ONE purpose. IMHO to have a family pet that LOOKS like a wolf, which is CAPABLE of doing all those general tasks (not necessarily the BEST at those specific tasks) should be the ultimate aim: a good all-round, intelligent, obedient, well-behaved companion dog that is good with children and other pets. :)
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:11 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:That is what i've been trying to put into words... Could something that looks like a wolf, down to the skeleton, do the jobs we are asking of it? I know the arctic breeding but with the enhancements been made to that, is it still good to get them to do the same jobs?
I think, to a degree: YES. Certainly on a recreational level and, depending on the individual dog, perhaps to a professional level... but a general all-round dog will have a hard time 'competing' against dogs of a particular breed that have been bred for decades (in some cases, centuries) for a very specific purpose. Obviously if someone wanted to compete (on a high professional / top level standard) in dog sledding, agility, tracking, or obedience then they would get a husky/malamute, collie / shepherd, bloodhound, and German Shepherd (respectively) instead - a breed that has been specifically bred for that ONE purpose. IMHO to have a family pet that LOOKS like a wolf, which is CAPABLE of doing all those general tasks (not necessarily the BEST at those specific tasks) should be the ultimate aim: a good all-round, intelligent, obedient, well-behaved companion dog that is good with children and other pets. :)
Yes! This is what I meant to say, I'm just aweful with explanations :lol:
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:13 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:That is what i've been trying to put into words... Could something that looks like a wolf, down to the skeleton, do the jobs we are asking of it? I know the arctic breeding but with the enhancements been made to that, is it still good to get them to do the same jobs?
I think, to a degree: YES. Certainly on a recreational level and, depending on the individual dog, perhaps to a professional level... but a general all-round dog will have a hard time 'competing' against dogs of a particular breed that have been bred for decades (in some cases, centuries) for a very specific purpose. Obviously if someone wanted to compete (on a high professional / top level standard) in dog sledding, agility, tracking, or obedience then they would get a husky/malamute, collie / shepherd, bloodhound, and German Shepherd (respectively) instead - a breed that has been specifically bred for that ONE purpose. IMHO to have a family pet that LOOKS like a wolf, which is CAPABLE of doing all those general tasks (not necessarily the BEST at those specific tasks) should be the ultimate aim: a good all-round, intelligent, obedient, well-behaved companion dog that is good with children and other pets. :)
Yes, that sounds a fair description... Sometimes people come across as wanting that top winning sled dog all Tamaskan team (can't remember who said it or where it was said but it did get me thinking)...
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One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
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The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by wen » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:10 pm

Sylvaen wrote: IMHO to have a family pet that LOOKS like a wolf, which is CAPABLE of doing all those general tasks (not necessarily the BEST at those specific tasks) should be the ultimate aim: a good all-round, intelligent, obedient, well-behaved companion dog that is good with children and other pets. :)
I agree ;)
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Eventide » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:10 pm

Sylvaen wrote: IMHO to have a family pet that LOOKS like a wolf, which is CAPABLE of doing all those general tasks (not necessarily the BEST at those specific tasks) should be the ultimate aim: a good all-round, intelligent, obedient, well-behaved companion dog that is good with children and other pets. :)
And that's exactly what I got when I adopted Max 10 months ago from Tracy and Ben (Hawthorne) :D He is very loving and patient with everyone and everything, especially small children, dogs, and cats, very smart (actually, too smart for his own good sometimes ;) ).

However, the "obedient" part needs some work at this time and I do wish he'd hurry through his "tween" stage as he's just started doing things he's NEVER done before (showing separation anxiety by eating the loveseat pillows, pooping in the bedroom - where he also sleeps, and howling and crying when we leave him for even a half hour in the house alone) :( My husband came home just one half hour after I left this morning and found the mess - NOT a happy camper and I'm glad I'm not home right now :roll:. Back to retraining him to the crate again, IF possible at this point.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:46 pm

Sylvaen wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:That is what i've been trying to put into words... Could something that looks like a wolf, down to the skeleton, do the jobs we are asking of it? I know the arctic breeding but with the enhancements been made to that, is it still good to get them to do the same jobs?
I think, to a degree: YES. Certainly on a recreational level and, depending on the individual dog, perhaps to a professional level... but a general all-round dog will have a hard time 'competing' against dogs of a particular breed that have been bred for decades (in some cases, centuries) for a very specific purpose. Obviously if someone wanted to compete (on a high professional / top level standard) in dog sledding, agility, tracking, or obedience then they would get a husky/malamute, collie / shepherd, bloodhound, and German Shepherd (respectively) instead - a breed that has been specifically bred for that ONE purpose. IMHO to have a family pet that LOOKS like a wolf, which is CAPABLE of doing all those general tasks (not necessarily the BEST at those specific tasks) should be the ultimate aim: a good all-round, intelligent, obedient, well-behaved companion dog that is good with children and other pets. :)
YES! Agree with this, too--
Maybe there needs to be a new classification: a recreation dog :) (just kidding)

But yes, if we agree on this then I think we can make more informed decisions as to what dogs should or should not be added as foundation stock. For instance, the Hedlund Husky is a sled dog, yes, but it is a sled dog for touring / checking trap lines--not for racing. It's a very different personality. And that's not to say that we aspire to be as intent as those dogs--but if you mix a little of something in, and then mix in something else that's the opposite, select pups for temperament and health and looks I think we'll be in very good shape.

But to Line's question--the Vlcak is a true working dog that looks like a wolf. Knowing that wolf looks can produce a working breed, I think ours can look like a wolf and be a more-rounded wolf :D
Or--were you thinking that a wolf-look-alike maybe couldn't be well rounded? And had to have a specific job?
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bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Nino » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:43 pm

I was just speculating ;)

like the Wolf eg. are made for being able to travel for miles and miles, but would it be content not doing so?
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:15 pm

Hmm... That's something to ponder. I would want to talk to someone who has been breeding dogs their whole life.
Yes, wolves are built to travel. They are put together to do so--so if I'm reading your question right, you're asking can a dog who is put together similarly or the same way as a wolf not be as needy for exercise as a wolf would be? That is--do the needs and desires of exercise come along with the physical make up of the dog?
That's a neat question.

I have another crazy question for you:
In listening to the radio program about the fox program in Russia (posted in the Russian Tame Foxes thread), I thought about their discussion of the physical traits of the fox as they selected for more and more friendly fox: their tails curled and their ears were floppy: clear physical traits of domestication. So, if we have a dog like the Tam with erect ears and a straight tail--is it less "domesticated" than a dog with floppy ears and a curly tail? Probably not, just pondering.

But yes, our dogs can run for 3 hours before they get tired. I like that about them--we take them on day hikes and they really enjoy it.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Tiantai » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:26 pm

I believe that I have already described my primary goal with this breed multiple times here and on facebook but I'll repeat it once more on this topic so that everyone will know ;)

My main purpose for choosing the Tamaskan breed is because I'm both a marathon runner and a fisherman during the summer and at the same time a fan of lupine looking breeds of dogs. I enjoy running and I hope to one day have one or two marathon buddies to run with on the track. The Tamaskan's wolf-like trotting based on the informations that I've read so far makes them an excellent choice for these activities. While I've taken care of dogs in the past, most of them were chihuahuas and I could never train them for this purpose due to their size! My Buddy was more of a gardener's assistant picking up items than a runner and although I loved him very much, I could never train him to do what he was not bred for. As for the fishing part, in addition to a marathon pal I also want a dog who can assist me on fishing trips with my current family AND my future family. I enjoy fishing in the Trent river (next to Brighton) as well as in the aboriginal reserves near Kawartha Lake every summer on some weekends. The Tamaskan dog is my choice because like the Siberian Huskies, I am given the impression that Tamaskans still have a shed of that hunting instinct which may come in handy with fetching those hard to reel in fish that get caught on the line of my rod. I've seen another fisherman in the past whose dog actually grabbed a northern rainbow trout out of the water when it noticed that its owner was having difficulties and I hope that one day I will be able to teach my dogs to do the same things as the dog that I witnessed.

Here's some pictures of the fish that I normally catch and they usually take me 15 minutes to pull out of the water!
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:22 pm

Tiantai wrote: As for the fishing part, in addition to a marathon pal I also want a dog who can assist me on fishing trips with my current family AND my future family. I enjoy fishing in the Trent river (next to Brighton) as well as in the aboriginal reserves near Kawartha Lake every summer on some weekends. The Tamaskan dog is my choice because like the Siberian Huskies, I am given the impression that Tamaskans still have a shed of that hunting instinct which may come in handy with fetching those hard to reel in fish that get caught on the line of my rod. I've seen another fisherman in the past whose dog actually grabbed a northern rainbow trout out of the water when it noticed that its owner was having difficulties and I hope that one day I will be able to teach my dogs to do the same things as the dog that I witnessed.
How do you have the dog do this without the danger of being hooked by the fishhook? What kind of dog did the other fisherman have? A retriever? My Tamaskan show very little interest in the bumper we use to throw into the pond for our lab mix.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Tiantai » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:36 pm

You're right, it WILL take a long time on this but I'll have to plan carefully how I train my dog to recognize where they should not grab the fish as well as to not go for the small ones if possible. As far as I'm aware, a lot of dogs have the ability to spot the fish biting on the hook even before the floats sink.

The other dog did not grab the fish by the top near the hook site. Usually it was either by the belly regions or near the dorsal area and it NEVER went for small fish like perch or sunfish. Whenever it leaped into the water, it was definitely a large fish or so the owner told me! If memory serves me correctly, the dog I saw was a mutt that looked like a lurcher mix. According to the fisherman, it was half deerhound. The owner told me that when he first trained the dog, it was with a plastic fish that he tied to the line of a rod and then cast it into a lake on the shallow end WITHOUT a hook. The dog would go fetch it upon command. But once the dog started exploring with him on the boat, it usually just sits there until called to go get it or when the fisherman himself starts to struggle and gives the signal (pointing at the line) the dog would help grab the fish but the mutt also apparently recognizes if there is a fish or not and would not go down if it was just some seaweed or the hook getting stuck on a log.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:28 pm

Nino wrote:I was just speculating ;)

like the Wolf eg. are made for being able to travel for miles and miles, but would it be content not doing so?
This is why I looked at the CSV standard and said to myself: "huh, so how do we want the Tam to be different?" Because we certainly are different, but on the surface we may appear the same. I think the Tam standard should clearly set us apart from CSV, Utonogan, Northern Inuit, Sarloos, husky, malamute, etc.

So back on track: thinking about the function of the dog will have a huge roll in what we add or change in the Tam standard. I'm excited about this. :D
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bark as if no one can hear you
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sit by the fire with friends
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Nino » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:20 pm

Hawthorne wrote:
Nino wrote:I was just speculating ;)

like the Wolf eg. are made for being able to travel for miles and miles, but would it be content not doing so?
This is why I looked at the CSV standard and said to myself: "huh, so how do we want the Tam to be different?" Because we certainly are different, but on the surface we may appear the same. I think the Tam standard should clearly set us apart from CSV, Utonogan, Northern Inuit, Sarloos, husky, malamute, etc.

So back on track: thinking about the function of the dog will have a huge roll in what we add or change in the Tam standard. I'm excited about this. :D
I really agree with you here!
I want the Tamaskan to differ from the CSC, Saarloos, Husky, Malamute and the other look alike breeds (which I do think the Tam look more wolfy in general because they allow traits that are very non-wolfish).

I want the Tamaskan to build in a way that the conformation looks like a wolf, but the "problem" is that different types of wolves look different, and when choosing we cannot really say that we want the Tamaskan to look like the wolf because there are so many kinds, it would be like saying I want to breed a cat that looks like the big wild cat (there being rather a lot of different cats that would be very confusing) or saying I want to breed a fish that looks like a wild fish (well since there is not domesticated fish that really makes not much sense but I am sure you know what I mean! :lol: )

Which is why I think we need to look a bit more specific on the subspecies of wolves to find both which one (or closely related ones although one would make most sense) the Tamaskan Dog looks like and just as important which one we are "going for" so to speak, when breeding the Tamaskan.
I sincerely think that just saying "wolf" is all to broard of a definition and we will be "lost" on the way if we do not specify a bit more than that!

In general I think the Tamaskan looks like the European wolves the most, which makes a lot of sense when thinking there have been at least some amount of Saarloos and CVS used in there..
But what do you other guys think?

Of course the when talking about which subspecies wolfdog breeds look like the CVS and Saarloos will always look more like European (Eurasian?) wolves, whereas a lot of the wolfdogs bred in the states and the breeds that they are trying to create there all seems to be based on the American wolves looks, so this COULD make the Tamaskan Dog more distinct when comparing in America, which would probably do more good than bad I would assume..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies_of_gray_wolf wrote: Europe
European wolves tend to have coarse fur with less soft wool intermixed than American wolves. Their heads are narrower, their ears longer, higher placed and somewhat closer to each other. Their loins are more slender, their legs longer, their feet narrower, and their tails more thinly clothed with fur.[3] Pelt colour in European wolves ranges from white, cream, red, grey and black, sometimes with all colours combined. Wolves in central Europe tend to be more richly coloured than those in Northern Europe. Eastern European wolves tend to be shorter and more heavily built than Northern Russian ones.[4]
North America
North American wolves are generally the same size as European wolves, but have shorter legs, larger, rounder heads, broader, more obtuse muzzles, and a sensible depression at the union of nose and forehead, which is more arched and broad. Their ears are shorter and have a more conical form. They typically lack the black mark on the forelegs, as is the case in European races. They have long and comparatively fine fur, mixed with a shorter wooly hair, and are more robust.[3] Fur colour in American wolves ranges from white, black, red, yellow, brown, grey, and grizzled skins, and others representing every shade between, although usually each locality has its prevailing tint. There are pronounced differences in North American wolves of different localities; wolves from Texas and New Mexico are comparatively slim animals with small teeth.[5] Mexican wolves in particular resemble some European wolves in stature, though their heads are usually broader, their necks thicker, their ears longer and their tails shorter.[6] Wolves of the central and northern chains of the Rocky Mountains and coastal ranges are more formidable animals than the more southern plains wolves, and resemble Russian and Scandinavian wolves in size and proportions.[5]
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:23 pm

Well I guess the idea of looking like a wolf will always vary among different people, this can also mean different individuals from different parts of the world where the wolves in their regions (if there are any in their regions) differ from other wolves from different parts. Of course, not everyone is like me to have met real wolves in person. To me, some dogs like Wave appear to resemble the Czech a bit, others like Leia look more like husky-crosses than wolfdogs of any kind. But part of my human-bias (admit it, we're ALL biased) of why I don't see the Tamaskans as looking like true wolves, though some are pretty close, is due to having hung out with 9 actual captive coywolves (8 Eastern wolves and one Mackenzie Valley wolf/western coyote hybrid). Although STILL have yet to meet an actual Tamaskan in person (my dad refuses to let me stop by at Amit's house even though we past by his city on every fishing trip :lol: ), based on the many photos of Tamaskan dogs and then comparing them with the true Grey wolves in the Toronto Zoo and the coywolves that I'm familliar with, the Tamaskans don't look that close to any true wolves to me. I'm fully aware that there are numerous different subspecies of the Grey wolves but even certain ones like the Far-Eastern susbspecies who look and behave more like dogs still don't look anything close to the Tamaskan. That's my opinion anyways, but they are still very lupine-coloured and a beautiful breed of domestic dog and I undoubtedly want to and will raise one or three in the future both as family companions and for the purposes that I've already described above. Becoming a breeder will be wayyyyyyy later on but that's another story.

One thing we don't deny is that Tamaskans are mutts (stud book is still open :D ) combined with so many primitive northern spitz dogs and some line having (diluted) wolf-content that I would much rather continue to just call it simply a "crossbreed" than to tell a random person "it's a dog bred to look like a wolf". But at least we all share a common ground in which we want them to behave less like wolves and more like dogs.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by TeresaC » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:45 am

This is a really great thread and I had to read it a few times. This is something I have struggled with a lot; even more now as I have begun working with our local kennel club and other trainers.

They always want to know what are dogs are bred for. Are they a guardian dog, herding dog, sled dog, etc.? This will dictate a lot of their structure, temperment and should dictate our breeding programs. Where would we see our dogs being classified in the future? Would they be in the Working Breeds, Non-Sporting Breeds?

For example, our breed standard calls for front legs that are slightly turned out. This allows a dog to single track and cover ground. However, this is not condusive to weight pulling. So it is a bit of a mixed statement about the breed when they are called a sledding dog.

As for temperment, this too is genetic and should play carefully into the function of the dog. Do we want to work in the long term to ellminate the prey drive? If this is to be a family companion animal, it would be best to reduce prey driive.

For me personally, I would love to see the temperment issues worked on as well as a purpose defined. As we begin to work with breed clubs, rare breed clubs and have outside judges work with our dogs, these are questions they will ask. I know I struggled when I tried to fill in or judge for the show last year on our breed's purpose. She also struggled with our breed standard as it was a bit "bare." I would like to see these dogs easier to handle. I would also like to see less reactivity and separation anxiety. Both of these traits are genetic. These are not things we can fix in the next few generations, but with a concerted effort, progress could be made.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Rahne » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:27 am

TeresaC wrote: As for temperment, this too is genetic and should play carefully into the function of the dog. Do we want to work in the long term to ellminate the prey drive? If this is to be a family companion animal, it would be best to reduce prey driive.

For me personally, I would love to see the temperment issues worked on as well as a purpose defined. As we begin to work with breed clubs, rare breed clubs and have outside judges work with our dogs, these are questions they will ask. I know I struggled when I tried to fill in or judge for the show last year on our breed's purpose. She also struggled with our breed standard as it was a bit "bare." I would like to see these dogs easier to handle. I would also like to see less reactivity and separation anxiety. Both of these traits are genetic. These are not things we can fix in the next few generations, but with a concerted effort, progress could be made.
Prey drive is high with Northern breeds. I don't think it is very realistic to eliminate this trait if we want to keep the Tamaskan based primarily on Northern breeds (Husky etc.). Same goes for separation anxiety, and some other traits our Tamaskan show currently.. they come from the Husky background. You can reduce it by selective breeding, but if you want to get rid of it almost fully then we should start breeding retrievers.

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by sequoia » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:18 pm

What a great discussion thread - I think the Tamaskan should be (aside from wolfy looking) an animal that makes an excellent family dog. We should ask ourselves what are the most difficult aspects of owning high content wolfdogs, and breed for the opposite in terms of temperament and disposition. The Tamaskan is supposed to be the 'easier to own' version of the high content wolfdog (wolfdog with out the wolf). If they're not different/easier to handle, then what's the appeal when compared to high/mid/content wolfdogs?

Does it need to be a working dog? Personally, for me - no. But I realize others do want that quality. Just about every breed of working dog has 'show' and 'working' lines, both types should exist.

:)
Tiantai wrote:#sequoia

We dropped that motto months ago due to the presence of wolf-content in some of the lines.
That's good to know - our Shasta is one of them, but I don't sign on to the forums regularly so I missed that update. Even though the byline "The wolfdog with out the wolf" is no longer accurate by the letter of the law, it can still be followed in spirit. Or, was a decision made to increase the genetic diversity of the breed by adding in another breed? That Vlcak is a good looking dog. Again I'm not up todate on the all the forum topics so any insight is appreciated.

The earsize on this red wolf and coloring remind me of Tamaskans
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Tiantai » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:19 pm

Prey drive, the reason why Snoopy escaped the house a lot and sometimes brought home some very nasty-looking half eaten dead souvenirs for me to clean up (bury away in the backyard, /\ Namo Amituofo /\ ) in the past.

I agree, based on my experience with the Alusky, I don't think it's possible to breed out that prey-drive completely in any of the northern spitz, especially the primitive types of which the Tamaskan was created from. In fact, the prey drive is something that every dog needs but in most non-primitive breeds like the labradors, it has been ultimately reduced but the primitive breeds like the northern spitz and pariah type still maintains it to some level due to the needs to survive the northern winter condition. A bulldog would never survive in the far north if you go back 100 years ago since it has a lower prey drive than the Malamute making it unsuitable for a hunting assistance dog plus there weren't any of the modern-type houses for them to stay warm during the winter. There is a theory that Eurasian wolves might have been used as outcrosses to create the Siberian Huskies, Alaskan Malamutes, Laikas, Swedish Deerhounds, and we do know that they were definitely used in the German Shepherd dogs. Fortunately with selective breeding as Rahne has said, be can reduce the prey-drive in most of the Tamaskans, but as I agree, it will always be present as long as we want to keep the wolf-like characters in the breed. But this is also why Debby once stated that the Tamaskan is NOT for everyone.

@sequoia

We dropped that motto months ago due to the presence of wolf-content in some of the lines.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Czertice » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:20 am

sequoia wrote:Does it need to be a working dog? Personally, for me - no. But I realize others do want that quality. Just about every breed of working dog has 'show' and 'working' lines, both types should exist.
I realize this is a theoretical discussion for now, but I'd like to say I think that to have working lines in the breed you need a much larger population than what it is now.
Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs are FCI registered working breed (many people see this as a joke :D ), more populous than Tamaskans, and still there is no working line. There are families or rather particular dogs that give slightly better training abilities, though. Usually those are with the stronger GSD influence.
For a working breed or at least working lines you need a substantial amount of people using the dogs to do work with the breed. In CSW case, any ambitious dog trainer will rather choose Malinois or GSD. And then there are many other breeds made for training. For dogsledding European Slider Dog, Alaskans or Huskies are the hype. It's interesting to see that neither European Slider Dogs nor Alaskans even attempt to be an official breed - there is no need for breed standard since the imperative is function.
Seeing as all "working" dog breed positions are already taken, I suggest concentrating on the companion purpose of Tamaskans;]
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by TeresaC » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:47 am

Rahne wrote: Prey drive is high with Northern breeds. I don't think it is very realistic to eliminate this trait if we want to keep the Tamaskan based primarily on Northern breeds (Husky etc.). Same goes for separation anxiety, and some other traits our Tamaskan show currently.. they come from the Husky background. You can reduce it by selective breeding, but if you want to get rid of it almost fully then we should start breeding retrievers.
Rahne, I don't think we will ever get rid of it entirely and I am defintely not suggesting adding labradors. I do beleive that if our goal is to create a companion dog, we should make an effort to lesson both the prey drive and separation anxiety. This can be done by selective breeding and careful uses of outcrosses and new foundation dogs. Not all Northern breeds have separation anxiety. Prey drive varies from dog to dog. I think that open and honest conversations between breeders is needed to help future generations of Tamaskan owners be fully aware of what they are buying. If you breed two Tamaskans with very high prey drive, the offspring will most likely have high prey drive. I have one of each when it comes to prey drive and when it comes to separation anxiety - so it does vary within the breed.

Just saying as breeders...we should always be striving to make the next generation better than the one we have today according to the purpose of our dogs and according to the established breed standard.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Tiantai » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:30 pm

I'm a bit confused at the two recent posts above. Can someone fix the quotes because it's looking like Rahne is talking to herself in the one just before me..
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by arianwenarie » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:35 pm

Tiantai wrote:I'm a bit confused at the two recent posts above. Can someone fix the quotes because it's looking like Rahne is talking to herself in the one just before me..
Unless Rahne was trying to fix Teresa's post and hit "quote" instead of "edit"...then, that'd make sense. lol.

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by weylyn » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:55 pm

TeresaC wrote:
Rahne wrote: Prey drive is high with Northern breeds. I don't think it is very realistic to eliminate this trait if we want to keep the Tamaskan based primarily on Northern breeds (Husky etc.). Same goes for separation anxiety, and some other traits our Tamaskan show currently.. they come from the Husky background. You can reduce it by selective breeding, but if you want to get rid of it almost fully then we should start breeding retrievers.
Rahne, I don't think we will ever get rid of it entirely and I am defintely not suggesting adding labradors. I do beleive that if our goal is to create a companion dog, we should make an effort to lesson both the prey drive and separation anxiety. This can be done by selective breeding and careful uses of outcrosses and new foundation dogs. Not all Northern breeds have separation anxiety. Prey drive varies from dog to dog. I think that open and honest conversations between breeders is needed to help future generations of Tamaskan owners be fully aware of what they are buying. If you breed two Tamaskans with very high prey drive, the offspring will most likely have high prey drive. I have one of each when it comes to prey drive and when it comes to separation anxiety - so it does vary within the breed.

Just saying as breeders...we should always be striving to make the next generation better than the one we have today according to the purpose of our dogs and according to the established breed standard.
Of course it is something we can do by selecting good the best we can of making it less but I agree with Rahne that it is not realistic to eliminate it. Not saying you must not try it but staying realistic in it that it will be a part of it and that you can always have one or two dogs in a litter even with good selection and after a few generations that would have it severe.

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by sequoia » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:21 pm

weylyn wrote:
TeresaC wrote:
Rahne wrote: Prey drive is high with Northern breeds. I don't think it is very realistic to eliminate this trait if we want to keep the Tamaskan based primarily on Northern breeds (Husky etc.). Same goes for separation anxiety, and some other traits our Tamaskan show currently.. they come from the Husky background. You can reduce it by selective breeding, but if you want to get rid of it almost fully then we should start breeding retrievers.
Rahne, I don't think we will ever get rid of it entirely and I am defintely not suggesting adding labradors. I do beleive that if our goal is to create a companion dog, we should make an effort to lesson both the prey drive and separation anxiety. This can be done by selective breeding and careful uses of outcrosses and new foundation dogs. Not all Northern breeds have separation anxiety. Prey drive varies from dog to dog. I think that open and honest conversations between breeders is needed to help future generations of Tamaskan owners be fully aware of what they are buying. If you breed two Tamaskans with very high prey drive, the offspring will most likely have high prey drive. I have one of each when it comes to prey drive and when it comes to separation anxiety - so it does vary within the breed.

Just saying as breeders...we should always be striving to make the next generation better than the one we have today according to the purpose of our dogs and according to the established breed standard.
Of course it is something we can do by selecting good the best we can of making it less but I agree with Rahne that it is not realistic to eliminate it. Not saying you must not try it but staying realistic in it that it will be a part of it and that you can always have one or two dogs in a litter even with good selection and after a few generations that would have it severe.
It sounds like most people agree that the prey drive and separation anxiety can be 'reduced' by breeding individuals that show less of these traits - but not eliminated. It sounds like a fair (and do-able) proposal :)
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Rahne » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:32 pm

arianwenarie wrote:
Tiantai wrote:I'm a bit confused at the two recent posts above. Can someone fix the quotes because it's looking like Rahne is talking to herself in the one just before me..
Unless Rahne was trying to fix Teresa's post and hit "quote" instead of "edit"...then, that'd make sense. lol.
Oops I messed up :oops:

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Rahne » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:41 pm

sequoia wrote:
weylyn wrote:
TeresaC wrote: Rahne, I don't think we will ever get rid of it entirely and I am defintely not suggesting adding labradors. I do beleive that if our goal is to create a companion dog, we should make an effort to lesson both the prey drive and separation anxiety. This can be done by selective breeding and careful uses of outcrosses and new foundation dogs. Not all Northern breeds have separation anxiety. Prey drive varies from dog to dog. I think that open and honest conversations between breeders is needed to help future generations of Tamaskan owners be fully aware of what they are buying. If you breed two Tamaskans with very high prey drive, the offspring will most likely have high prey drive. I have one of each when it comes to prey drive and when it comes to separation anxiety - so it does vary within the breed.

Just saying as breeders...we should always be striving to make the next generation better than the one we have today according to the purpose of our dogs and according to the established breed standard.
Of course it is something we can do by selecting good the best we can of making it less but I agree with Rahne that it is not realistic to eliminate it. Not saying you must not try it but staying realistic in it that it will be a part of it and that you can always have one or two dogs in a litter even with good selection and after a few generations that would have it severe.
It sounds like most people agree that the prey drive and separation anxiety can be 'reduced' by breeding individuals that show less of these traits - but not eliminated. It sounds like a fair (and do-able) proposal :)
Yes that was what I meant. Of course we should try to reduce it, and we probably can... to a certain degree.

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Rahne » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:44 pm

I was looking at the Chinook Dog and found this: http://www.chinook.org/wdp.html
It's a 'Working Dog Program', divided in three groups. I think something similar would be great for the Tamaskan ;)

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by kentauris » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:20 pm

Some peolple who have German Shepherds (working lines) say about them: they are for no work the best ones but for almost every work the second-best. :)
Could this be are great purpose also for a Tamaskan?

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by ligerwolve » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:07 pm

Now I dont own a Tamaskan but this is my take on the situation.

This breed was created (in my opinion) to be a wolfdog without the wolf. To me this says the Tamaskan is more novice friendly than say a CzW etc. Which leads me to think companion.

A working line animal is not a "pet" and takes alot of dedication and effort. They NEED a job. People who love them put in the effort but they are not for everyone.

In todays day and age I think people want more friendly, easy going animals. Working lines not so much (with the exception of those that need them to work and those that are so nuts about a breed they make the effort anyway like mwah :lol: ).

I think you can breed for a companion while still breeding for good health and endurance. Breed for a dog that can go where you do, but doesnt drag you there kicking and screaming if you know what I mean.

I think breeding a companion dog will set you away from the other wolfdog types.

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by balto13 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:09 pm

ligerwolve wrote:Now I dont own a Tamaskan but this is my take on the situation.

This breed was created (in my opinion) to be a wolfdog without the wolf. To me this says the Tamaskan is more novice friendly than say a CzW etc. Which leads me to think companion.

A working line animal is not a "pet" and takes alot of dedication and effort. They NEED a job. People who love them put in the effort but they are not for everyone.

In todays day and age I think people want more friendly, easy going animals. Working lines not so much (with the exception of those that need them to work and those that are so nuts about a breed they make the effort anyway like mwah :lol: ).

I think you can breed for a companion while still breeding for good health and endurance. Breed for a dog that can go where you do, but doesnt drag you there kicking and screaming if you know what I mean.

I think breeding a companion dog will set you away from the other wolfdog types.
I like some of the points you made,and agree for the most part, but think it's okay to have these dogs capable of being working dogs, but agree that they should be able to be easy going as well.

I would also like to see better recall. I know that some owners have said that their tams have good recall, and others said it was practically non existent.

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:09 pm

I don't think it has to be either "companion dog" or "working dog." Why not both? The Hedlund Husky is happy in the harness or happy on the couch.
What I don't want is a dog who is lazy and doesn't need exercise. We are outdoorsy and like the fact that we can take our dogs off leash on hikes. If we lost that ability for endurance, I don't think this would be the breed for me.

On another note, though--Shasta's owner brings up a good point. In my mind, we are NOT creating another wolfdog breed. Nor do I want to go down that path. For those who think the Tam is or should be a wolfdog breed I have a question--what for? What purpose will there be in adding another wolfdog breed?
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by balto13 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:35 pm

I like the aspect of both working and companion! :) and I (personally) am not looking for wolfdog (dog with wolf content) but I am attracted to some of the wolfy appearances in some of the tam lines. Can that be continued with out experimenting with wolf hybrids? I think that if it can I am happy with the way things are going overall with the appearances of the breed. Something I am curious about is that there seems to be a wide spectrum of coloring, masks and tail curliness within the breed, is that because it is still devolving or because there are many colors and masks in the breed standard?

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:48 pm

Hawthorne wrote:
On another note, though--Shasta's owner brings up a good point. In my mind, we are NOT creating another wolfdog breed. Nor do I want to go down that path. For those who think the Tam is or should be a wolfdog breed I have a question--what for? What purpose will there be in adding another wolfdog breed?
balto13 wrote:Can that be continued with out experimenting with wolf hybrids?
I have been mulling over this and before i continue, i just want to stress that i wholeheartedly agree with the above... If i wanted a wolfdog i'd have gone with one of the others...

But...

How much can 'we' keep in terms of the looks people want in the breed (the wolf look but not a wolfdog) if adding more 'wolfdogs' is not wanted... The GSD was a wolfdog but the looks have drastically changed over the years since no more wolf content has been added.
I'm curious if that was a contributing factor or if it was other breeds carelessly added that changed the look (i have actually googled, but i don't know if the info is just not there or i'm a lousy googler)...
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Taz » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:21 pm

I think with the GSD it wasn't bred to be a wolfdog, it was bred to be a multipurpose working dog, therefore whilst yes, there was a look that was wanted, I don't think it was specifically a wolfdog one, so it wasn't strongly or intentionally selected for, which might explain the change.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by ligerwolve » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:35 am

Actually if anything GSD breeders select for non wolfy colouring. There are dog who look like wolves but they are rare as typically people select for black and gold aswell as some sable. Even gold sables find some bias from judges.

So you can select for wolf markings and temp but you need a good size gene pool and people dedicated to the breed standard. You dont want people diluting the look and temp because they feel like it.

This is where breed clubs, temp tests and shows come in handy. So long as no one element becomes more important.

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:38 am

Taz wrote:I think with the GSD it wasn't bred to be a wolfdog, it was bred to be a multipurpose working dog, therefore whilst yes, there was a look that was wanted, I don't think it was specifically a wolfdog one, so it wasn't strongly or intentionally selected for, which might explain the change.
Yeah, which is why i thought it may be the addition of other breeds that changed the look because the main goal was a working dog so they will have had to fetch more mellow, co-operative breeds in to counter the wolf instinct... I mean, farmers don't want their herder to kill the live stock...
But then we got to the subject of domesticating the foxes and my curiosity perked up again... When no more of the feral foxes was added and only the domestic foxes were bred, the changes and the colour changes are unbelievable... They don't even look like foxes anymore but odd breeds of dog... Which is where my thoughts came back to, if we only breed dogs without wolf content, will we lose the look everyone desires? Did the foxes lose their look because they lost the wild element?


I hope this makes sense... I've rewritten it like 6 times now and it's the best way i can word my thoughts :oops:

Edit:
ligerwolve wrote:Actually if anything GSD breeders select for non wolfy colouring. There are dog who look like wolves but they are rare as typically people select for black and gold aswell as some sable. Even gold sables find some bias from judges.

So you can select for wolf markings and temp but you need a good size gene pool and people dedicated to the breed standard. You dont want people diluting the look and temp because they feel like it.

This is where breed clubs, temp tests and shows come in handy. So long as no one element becomes more important.

Ohhh, i missed this bit :oops:

Good point... :D
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by balto13 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:28 am

TerriHolt wrote: ... They don't even look like foxes anymore but odd breeds of dog... Which is where my thoughts came back to, if we only breed dogs without wolf content, will we lose the look everyone desires? Did the foxes lose their look because they lost the wild element?
ligerwolve wrote: So you can select for wolf markings and temp but you need a good size gene pool and people dedicated to the breed standard. You don't want people diluting the look and temp because they feel like it.

( hope I understood the above messages correctly) I agree that people shouldn't be afraid to dabble with some wolf content (the extent that it is legal) to keep the wolfy look. But if that is too worrying/risky then at least we still have breeds such as; the British timber dog, Inuit, and some Agouti colored huskies/ husky like breeds.

My biggest concern is that there will be some trade off, such as allowing more curly tails or obedience (lack of) of some of the arctic breeds to come into the breed. I am not a geneticists, nor have I ever bred, but from the outside looking in I would like to hope that the tamaskan committee and breeders can work together to create (my personal ideal)

- short coat
-Wolfy look
-obedient
-laid back
-hard working
-gets along with a multitude of animals ( I realize that there is little chance of breeding out prey drive all together) and has zero people aggression

I like the jack of all trades concept, and am happy to see that it is not upsetting anybody that "a jack of all trades is a master of non". Because if I wanted one dog for one particular purpose I would buy that dog.

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:52 am

Well when breeders of a club breed for a desired trait, they usually try to find the best dogs to "lock in" the characteristic of what they're looking for as we all know by now as with the Tamaskan Standard. But in reality, since every dog is different individually, obviously not all of them will suit the desired purpose. For example, the Siberian Husky in general is a sled-pulling working dog but not all huskies are suitable to pull sleds and as another post somewhere on the forum already mentioned how there are so many different GSD who have different purpose. I just hope that my future Tamaskan will be able to live up to my life-style as a man with a love for marathons.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Taz » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:19 am

TerriHolt wrote:
Taz wrote:I think with the GSD it wasn't bred to be a wolfdog, it was bred to be a multipurpose working dog, therefore whilst yes, there was a look that was wanted, I don't think it was specifically a wolfdog one, so it wasn't strongly or intentionally selected for, which might explain the change.
Yeah, which is why i thought it may be the addition of other breeds that changed the look because the main goal was a working dog so they will have had to fetch more mellow, co-operative breeds in to counter the wolf instinct... I mean, farmers don't want their herder to kill the live stock...
But then we got to the subject of domesticating the foxes and my curiosity perked up again... When no more of the feral foxes was added and only the domestic foxes were bred, the changes and the colour changes are unbelievable... They don't even look like foxes anymore but odd breeds of dog... Which is where my thoughts came back to, if we only breed dogs without wolf content, will we lose the look everyone desires? Did the foxes lose their look because they lost the wild element?


I hope this makes sense... I've rewritten it like 6 times now and it's the best way i can word my thoughts :oops:

Edit:
ligerwolve wrote:Actually if anything GSD breeders select for non wolfy colouring. There are dog who look like wolves but they are rare as typically people select for black and gold aswell as some sable. Even gold sables find some bias from judges.

So you can select for wolf markings and temp but you need a good size gene pool and people dedicated to the breed standard. You dont want people diluting the look and temp because they feel like it.

This is where breed clubs, temp tests and shows come in handy. So long as no one element becomes more important.

Ohhh, i missed this bit :oops:

Good point... :D
I understand your point.
I do think that when looking to the fox experiment people need to remember that there have also been cases of unusual marked foxes shot in the wild in other countries, which suggests that the colour changes observed might not entirely be as a result of selecting for tameness.
You just need to look at domestic dogs to see it is not as simple as, drop ear, curly tail = more domestic. I'd say the GSD, with it's pointed ears and strait tail, displays a much tamer, domesticated temperament, then many of the lgd breeds, most of whom unless cropped, have drop ears, some with curled tails.
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by JoaquimJoe » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:43 pm

Tiantai wrote:Well when breeders of a club breed for a desired trait, they usually try to find the best dogs to "lock in" the characteristic of what they're looking for as we all know by now as with the Tamaskan Standard. But in reality, since every dog is different individually, obviously not all of them will suit the desired purpose. For example, the Siberian Husky in general is a sled-pulling working dog but not all huskies are suitable to pull sleds and as another post somewhere on the forum already mentioned how there are so many different GSD who have different purpose. I just hope that my future Tamaskan will be able to live up to my life-style as a man with a love for marathons.
Think they love it to run, but please read about the issue not to overheat the dog please. Always keep temperature and moisture in mind please...
(sorry for my english :mrgreen: )
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Czertice » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:26 pm

JoaquimJoe wrote:
Tiantai wrote:Well when breeders of a club breed for a desired trait, they usually try to find the best dogs to "lock in" the characteristic of what they're looking for as we all know by now as with the Tamaskan Standard. But in reality, since every dog is different individually, obviously not all of them will suit the desired purpose. For example, the Siberian Husky in general is a sled-pulling working dog but not all huskies are suitable to pull sleds and as another post somewhere on the forum already mentioned how there are so many different GSD who have different purpose. I just hope that my future Tamaskan will be able to live up to my life-style as a man with a love for marathons.
Think they love it to run, but please read about the issue not to overheat the dog please. Always keep temperature and moisture in mind please...
(sorry for my english :mrgreen: )
Tiantai, if marathons with dog are your thing, than I suggest selecting a tamaskan with a lot of csw blood in it :mrgreen:
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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:33 am

Taz wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:
Taz wrote:I think with the GSD it wasn't bred to be a wolfdog, it was bred to be a multipurpose working dog, therefore whilst yes, there was a look that was wanted, I don't think it was specifically a wolfdog one, so it wasn't strongly or intentionally selected for, which might explain the change.
Yeah, which is why i thought it may be the addition of other breeds that changed the look because the main goal was a working dog so they will have had to fetch more mellow, co-operative breeds in to counter the wolf instinct... I mean, farmers don't want their herder to kill the live stock...
But then we got to the subject of domesticating the foxes and my curiosity perked up again... When no more of the feral foxes was added and only the domestic foxes were bred, the changes and the colour changes are unbelievable... They don't even look like foxes anymore but odd breeds of dog... Which is where my thoughts came back to, if we only breed dogs without wolf content, will we lose the look everyone desires? Did the foxes lose their look because they lost the wild element?


I hope this makes sense... I've rewritten it like 6 times now and it's the best way i can word my thoughts :oops:

Edit:
ligerwolve wrote:Actually if anything GSD breeders select for non wolfy colouring. There are dog who look like wolves but they are rare as typically people select for black and gold aswell as some sable. Even gold sables find some bias from judges.

So you can select for wolf markings and temp but you need a good size gene pool and people dedicated to the breed standard. You dont want people diluting the look and temp because they feel like it.

This is where breed clubs, temp tests and shows come in handy. So long as no one element becomes more important.

Ohhh, i missed this bit :oops:

Good point... :D
I understand your point.
I do think that when looking to the fox experiment people need to remember that there have also been cases of unusual marked foxes shot in the wild in other countries, which suggests that the colour changes observed might not entirely be as a result of selecting for tameness.
You just need to look at domestic dogs to see it is not as simple as, drop ear, curly tail = more domestic. I'd say the GSD, with it's pointed ears and strait tail, displays a much tamer, domesticated temperament, then many of the lgd breeds, most of whom unless cropped, have drop ears, some with curled tails.
You make a valid point :D It's just something that got me thinking while thinking about the future of the breed... I guess you never know what will happen till it happens...
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The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Dani » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:34 am

Currently it seems that most Tamaskans fall more in as companion dogs. -- In my opinion. The reason why I come to that conclusion is that the majority of people I meet with them. From my perspective, pet owners and breeders, Do enjoy doing activities with them, but do not **rely** on the dogs to do the work. It's more of a hobby. Or like stated earlier, a recreational option. Even standard poodles have been entered into the iditarod sled race. An all-around dog is a bit hard to pin point so early in the game when your still breeding for colors, masks, conformation and temperaments.

Sled dogs need to be independent, to basically think for themselves in such away they will disobeyed their owners should the need arise. If you have a sled dog out on a 16 dog sled team, chances are you can't see how thin the ice is up ahead. Your lead dog needs to decide to disobey the "forward" command.

Companion dogs are a bit *more bred for temperament. (not saying working dogs are not*) No one ever said they can't be Active Companion dogs. Perhaps the outdoors man companion dog. When you look at companion animals a lot of them are more suited to a slower paced lifestyle. So the Tamaskan could be an exceptional alternative for someone who wants a stable tempered pet who is animal and people friendly while still looking wolf like. After all isn't that what most people want with wolves? to have them as pets they can have as a major pat of the family?

Now I am not in anyway downing a working dog goal. But from showing experience, I would currently label the Tamaskan as a Companion animal. Unless all the breeders started really working the animals they have and the animals they produce towards that work choice goal, Any that couldn't handle the work load as they adjust to it, be it for gaiting poorly, weak backs, weak pasterns, weak hulks, or other faults that would cause the particular animal to have difficulty doing that particular job...should be removed from the breeding program.. as a working dog is technically a working dog first and foremost.. and a companion dog is a companion dog..first an foremost. So, I dunno... what you guys want to do in the end. That's just my two cents. As spoken from the showing and breeding side of working dogs. =)

I had plenty of drop dead beautiful Siberian huskies.. and many of them were not breeding quality because balancing beauty and *true* workability are very, very hard... as a professional dog handler I learned "tricks" to make dogs move better or more correct in the judging rings.. but that doesn't mean they deserved to win, nor did they deserve to contribute to the breed. :p well now I am rambling!

Either choice is fine in the end... I just think if your trying to get in to a all-breed kennel club the Tamaskan is going to have to show a LOT more of a paper trail in the working aspect before it's ever accepted into a working category. ...Unless I'm wrong, and we get some randomly laid back people! Then just ignore everything I said. LOL I don't even have a Tamaskan yet. ..Technically.

Rahne

Re: What is the purpose of the Tamaskan Dog?

Post by Rahne » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:40 am

Nicely put Dani! I totally agree, the Tamaskan is a companion dog for me :)

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