Deposit paid, have I made a mistake?

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thomasw
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Deposit paid, have I made a mistake?

Post by thomasw » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:00 pm

Hi all, I recently placed a deposit with Puppies by Ratliff in Missouri for a choice of litter from "Red Cloud" (parents are J&J Night Owl and Alba Sverical) and "Shiloh" (parents are "Timber" and "Ivy", unknown lineage?)

After speaking at length on the phone with John, I placed a deposit because the litter is due this month, however once I found this website, I am shocked at the amount of forum posts regarding Ratliff. Most say he is connected with RPK and the dogs have a potential to be unhealthy. I am greatly concerned that I have made a huge mistake now. Can anyone advise on "red cloud" and "shiloh"

They also have another litter that should be born the end of this month or early April, the parents would be Timber and Willow. Just wondering, if given the opportunity to pick from litters of the two groups, which would you choose or would you choose to run the other direction?!

Thanks.

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AZDehlin
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Re: Deposit paid, have I made a mistake?

Post by AZDehlin » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:37 pm

Rattliff is connected to RPK,they are not registered Tamaskan breeders, "Shiloh" (parents are "Timber" and "Ivy") is not a tamaskan but a Tamaskan Wolfdog that started with RPK, JJ Red Cloud is a Tamaskan though he was never registered cause his father did not have passing hip scores.

I would try to get your deposit back, at the least if you're going to go through with it make sure they produce both parents Hip scores and DM test results.

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HiTenshi16
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Re: Deposit paid, have I made a mistake?

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:06 pm

Red Cloud is a Tamaskan that Ratliff got dishonestly. They had a friend pose as an adopting family that bought the pup from an unregistered breeder (as AZDehlin mentioned, due to hip scores), then his friend gave him the pup. The breeder of Red Cloud was very upset when they heard of this.

I would definitely try to get your deposit back, how can you trust someone who works with a puppy mill and would obtain a puppy dishonestly like that?
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akaye531
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Re: Deposit paid, have I made a mistake?

Post by akaye531 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:38 am

I agree that you should try to get your deposit back. If you can't though, I have a littermate of Red Cloud's and I can tell you that my pup is a wonderful dog both personality and health wise (so far at least). My boy has great hips, so hopefully that is true of Red Cloud. Let me know if you have any other questions about his character if you decide to follow through with the pup.

What is the typical minimum breeding age? Red Cloud is 17 months now, so he clearly was even younger when bred.

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Re: Deposit paid, have I made a mistake?

Post by Wolfsbane » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:09 am

thomasw wrote: They also have another litter that should be born the end of this month or early April, the parents would be Timber and Willow. Just wondering, if given the opportunity to pick from litters of the two groups, which would you choose or would you choose to run the other direction?!
I would run the other direction...
Some big red flags:
* They don't do any health testing (Tamaskan can suffer from Hip Dysplasia and DM amongst others, so they should be tested for hips and DM at the minimum!).
* I heard they did test the 2 females (Ivy & Willow) on hips, but they both failed. A responsible breeder would NOT breed from dogs with bad hips!
* They started out with only 3 dogs (2 females, 1 male) but have kept 4 females + 1 male from their own litters, and also obtained (by cheating the breeder trough a 'friend') another male. This is very similar how RPK started out! Ratliff now has 9 adult breeding dogs, and litter after litter. Most Tamaskan hobby breeders keep up to 1-3 adult Tamaskan, and some who have more room keep up to 5. They breed 1-2 litters in ONE year. Ratliff is obviously breeding to make a living, that's never the right reason to breed.

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Ryphen
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Re: Deposit paid, have I made a mistake?

Post by Ryphen » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:59 pm

He also told another owner that he was going to retire Ivy and Willow because of their failing hip scores, but obviously hasn't. He seems to take better care of his dogs than RPK does, but still doesn't follow good breeding practices. I'd try and get the deposit back and find another breeder.

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