Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

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OddFoxx
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Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by OddFoxx » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:01 pm

So one of my besties and I are both avid dog lovers and went through breeders for our respective furbabies. True to many breeders, for both of us there was some research involved and mild screening about our respective home lives and agreements to the care of the pups. The one thing that really separated our breeders was that mine insisted on temperament testing on each puppy of each litter and then the breeder themselves would select the puppy for the owner, whereas my friend's breeder listed the puppy pics a few days after they were born and future puppy parents simply chose which one they wanted based on where they were on the waiting list.

From what I've seen from breeder websites that handle mostly show dogs (lots of Belgian breeder sites for me, mostly), the breeder selecting your new puppy seems to be the norm as the breeder knows more readily which pup will be better for showing and breeding, which will be better for pet only homes, and in my case, which will be best-suited to training for ESA and therapy work. With my friend's breed, however, since each puppy looked different and there isn't a breed standard, everyone seems to pick based on looks. It was kind of funny when she told me to hurry and pick mine before all the good ones were taken, and I laughed and said I picked the black one (the litter was all Groenendael XD). When I explained the breeder choosing the puppy she thought that was beyond weird.

I know that there is a general breed standard that showing Tams are scored on at shows in Europe, even though there seem to be some variables in coat coloring and masking, depending on which lines your puppy comes from. So I suppose my question is, do you feel it better to have the breeder choose the puppy for its new family? Do you feel that early temperament testing is important for picking the puppies, and do you think the tests are a reliable way to determine what they might be like when they're mature?
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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by firleymj » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:29 pm

OK, I can only speak from personal experience with ONE Tam (so far :o )
Hawthorne Tamaskan did a remarkable job having the pups tested and recommending a dog for me.
I will admit that for a lot of reasons, I didn't get my original choice, but I will tell you that after a 16 months I can't imagine I would have done as well in choosing myself.
The perfect dog? Maybe, maybe not. But Kona is the perfect dog FOR ME, and if I'm half the owner he is as a dog, we're both lucky.

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My goal in life is to be as good of a person as my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown
The greatest love is a mother's; then a dog's; then a sweetheart's. ~Polish Proverb

The human of Ch.(ARBA) and Ch.(KCUSA) Hawthorne James Watson (call name Kona)

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Booma
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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by Booma » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:03 am

I asked the breeder to pick for me, as I wanted a dog who could be a stud.
In the future when I have a litter I will have them temp tested. Any obviously pet quality pups can be allocated young, but possible breeding pups will be allocated after temp and structure evaluation. Of course, different people also want different things, so if someone tells me they want an outgoing or independent (Etc) dog, I can match them up to that
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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by Miran » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:02 am

I am also for that the breeder do a puppytest and pick the pup but not saying that the other way is bad. I just believe that it is better to let the breeder pick on hand of puppytest and being 8 weeks at least with the pups I believe the pup will better adjust to the wishes of the new owner. It is funny though that most of the times the pup the new owner like the most ( if they have the opportunity to see them live) is most of the times the pup that indeed fits best.

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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by Katlin » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:05 pm

My pup was the only one from that litter, so I didn't have much selection. But I honestly think Wylie is the perfect dog for me! I will invest in third party testing for my puppies, as well as not be allocating them until they are 7-8 weeks old.
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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:11 pm

One thought about Temperament Testing: The Volhard test was developed for Goldens. That makes it difficult to apply the results to the Tamaskan - who have very different temperaments than Goldens, obviously!
That being said we use the test anyway. Gathering data over time over many litters will help us see the "norm" for the breed. For example: the same ladies who TT'ed our last litter also did our litter in 2013. They told me they liked the temperaments of this new litter much better. Interesting! And it shows in the scores :D Wether that's the sire's influence or not only time will tell. Still very fascinating.
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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by balto13 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:18 am

I think to see how well temperament testing (or accurate) would to be to re evaluate them 1 -2 years later. Obviously between 8 weeks and 1- 2 years there is a lot to take into consideration. How the owners have trained them, what they've been exposed to, where they are developmentally, ect. But I think a re-score further down the road in their lives would also be interesting.

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Hawthorne
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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:45 pm

Yes, there is adult temperament testing. The Volhard Test is designed to screen for genetic predisposition. This is to be done at exactly 49 days old; any time after that and the pups start to learn behaviors so if we want to know how genetics are influencing our puppies this is the time to do the test. I have not seen any aggression or fear in any of my pups. But this type of breed is supposed to be a little more independent than a Golden so we do see scores skewed a little away from the "average." I don't think this is something to panic about but just something to take note of as we just won't see all 3's as scores on this test for a Tamaskan puppy. This breed tends to be disinterested in strangers at first and that is certainly what I have seen in the testing. Pups are quickly won over, however, with treats and with a day or two of interaction. I don't think that's a bad thing either--just something to be aware of when people visit the litter. Once a pup bonds to someone, though, they are affectionate and excited to see that person. Ruuq runs and leaps into our laps when we come home: ears back and tail wagging. She's so darn cute!
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by balto13 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:31 pm

Hawthorne wrote:Yes, there is adult temperament testing. The Volhard Test is designed to screen for genetic predisposition. This is to be done at exactly 49 days old; any time after that and the pups start to learn behaviors so if we want to know how genetics are influencing our puppies this is the time to do the test. I have not seen any aggression or fear in any of my pups. But this type of breed is supposed to be a little more independent than a Golden so we do see scores skewed a little away from the "average." I don't think this is something to panic about but just something to take note of as we just won't see all 3's as scores on this test for a Tamaskan puppy. This breed tends to be disinterested in strangers at first and that is certainly what I have seen in the testing. Pups are quickly won over, however, with treats and with a day or two of interaction. I don't think that's a bad thing either--just something to be aware of when people visit the litter. Once a pup bonds to someone, though, they are affectionate and excited to see that person. Ruuq runs and leaps into our laps when we come home: ears back and tail wagging. She's so darn cute!

I apologize if I gave the impression of panic, I assure you no such emotion came over me ;) I was just curious to the differences in puppy temps and adult temps

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Re: Puppy temperament testing and puppy selection

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:22 pm

balto13 wrote: I apologize if I gave the impression of panic, I assure you no such emotion came over me ;) I was just curious to the differences in puppy temps and adult temps
Oh no, not at all! I would be curious to have my adults TT'ed too--I just haven't had the opportunity. We were going to have this done at a show in Canada but our plans fell through. Bummer.
I was just explaining the Volhard test in general for the benefit of others reading…not directed at you :D
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http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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