is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

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is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Strattorr » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:09 pm

Hi, quick background. Our tamaskan, knox, came from Tamrakar Tamaskan (Dylan X Leia) and we love him. He is a smart guy, very affectionate, and for the most part, obedient (will "leave it", walks nicely, and comes when called, for food of course).

He is 5.5 months old and we have had to stop keeping him in his large crate (never in there for more than 3 hours) because recently he dug at it so badly he injured his paw. X rays were negative, but his toe was swollen like a sausage and had a nice cut in it, more like a hole. He limped on it for a week and he is only now starting be ok, although he opens his cut every time we leave. Now we have to board up sections of the house but he still digs at the area where people can come and go. So really there doesn't seem to be a difference between a crate and a large room- at the end of the day he just wants OUT of where ever he is to be near us (has chomped at door frames). When we are gone he wont eat his kong or drink water. The moment we get home he goes to town on his water and eats his treats in his kong.....

He gets a lot of exercise, but recently (due to the toe issue and at the exact same time he caught kennel cough) he hasn't been able to walk much or socialise. So I'm thinking this is only making things worse, but now he barks at particular strangers, lunges at some, and today bit at one on his leg while he was working on our home (electrician)..... We have spent many $100's on socialization classes and obedience training, he has been exposed to every size shape and color person, as well as people with beards, hats, you name it. We are so diligent with him but alas he now seems to be wary of some people and can not be around my timid 4 and 6 year old niece and nephew as he jumps on them because they act so nervous around him...

So is this normal to expect at the almost half year mark? Is he now showing signs that it may be time to neuter? When he has escaped our attempts to board him up he ends up just laying on our bed, doesn't get destructive (although he did eat a full sock, as he threw it up one morning). He is 40 lbs and 20 inches at the shoulder and today escaped a room that had 5 foot barriers......

I'm thinking of putting him back in his crate but so afraid I'll come home to a horribly mangled paw....

One last piece of background, we have moved once when he was 3 months, and we moved into a place we are renovating, so his crate/sleeping spot has moved locations a lot, and we have to move 2 more times before Christmas (long story).... I can imagine that the lack of structure is not good for him.

I'm looking for some answers here, feeling a bit desperate as my life now revolves around worrying if he is going to hurt himself, and wondering why he hasn't learned yet that we always come home to him. Many times he should be SO tired, as we would have done a huge walk with puppy play.

Thank you everyone for your help

Attached are some photos! in the last one you can see his injured toe

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Strattorr » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:11 pm

one photo. The site says my photos are too big...
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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Strattorr » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:12 pm

sorry for some reason only the silliest photo is small enough to send... even though they were all taken with my phone....

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Lynwae » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:37 pm

I don't think this has anything to do with sexual maturity.
That could only be a "test" phase.
I would advice you not to change your way of living and behaving with him.
If he does something wrong, correct him and show him the right way to do.
Be calm, be patient, be confident.

You should have a secure place to put the dog in when you're away or unable to take care of him.
A crate isn't a secure place. This is a convenient indoor dog room, no more.

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:00 pm

There could potentially be several things going on with your pup.
Dogs go through several fear periods--so his behavior toward the electrician could be part of that. Anything that scares a dog during a fear period will be something they will have difficulty not being afraid of as an adult. Dogs go through them until as late as 18 months. (Raven is going through one now--she regularly barks at a Mum plant in my neighbor's yard. No one else's mum plant scares her so--but her hackles go up and it's rather ridiculous.) The best thing to do is to show the dog that the item is not something to be startled about. In my instance, going up to the mum plant and touching it to show her it is nothing, and allowing her to approach it on her own is the best way to go.
Where is your dog crated when you sleep at night? Do you crate your dog at night? For crate training purposes, we have always had a crate next to our bed where the pup can see and hear and smell us. This is also where our other dogs sleep. In addition, we have a second crate in the kitchen (where we feed our dogs). Our dogs in training (Raven, right now) eat in their crate for every meal. We use the really heavy-duty crate for our Tams. While it's expensive, it's the safest option for them. Darwin (our male) had similar problems with crate training as your pup is having. Once we came home to him having broken all the welds off the front of the crate and him running around the house despite being crated next to two other dogs. The crate we use can be found here:


Also, how do you leave the house? Do you really take your time and allow your dog to relax before you go out the door? Or do you go out the door in a mad rush, like a tornado, in search of keys, sunglasses, your lunch, etc.? Is your dog an only dog? The reason I ask is because 1. This is a very social, pack-oriented breed. If he his an only dog, you will need some extra patience in training him because he is probably already at a disadvantage. If you are not the pack leader (especially) you are not allowed to leave him alone! (And I'm not talking about Cesar Millan methods--there are much better ways to establish that you are the pack leader.) Anyhow, if you leave in a rush this is one thing that you can do to change his behavior. Give yourself extra time prior to leaving. Our morning routine, prior to leaving for work is: 1. walk the dogs, 2. feed the dogs, 3. let the dogs out to play / potty for 30 minutes 4. let the dogs in 10 minutes prior to leaving and put them where you expect them to stay (mine are in the kitchen with Raven in a crate in the kitchen). Give them lots of toys they can have while unsupervised: Kong, Nylabone, rope toy (if they don't eat these, mine don't), antlers (only if they are done teething). My point is: the dog should be TIRED or SLEEPING when you go out the door. Do not make eye contact when going out the door. Do not say "Bye, sweetie, I'll miss you!" or some other form of apologetic tone. They pick up on this. You must be confident. It is okay that you are leaving. You MUST know this and believe it. Without going to work, who pays for the dog food? ;)

A great resource for learning a lot about dogs, and dog training are the books by Patricia McConnell. In particular, she has written about separation anxiety (which anyone can create in their dog if they do the wrong things), and how to be the leader of the pack.




Good luck!
I hope some of this is helpful.

So--OH! Back to the original question: No, I would wait to neuter him until he is at least 12 months old. This will give him the full advantage of growing prior to neutering. Honestly, Darwin just turned 3 and he is just beginning to finally fill out.
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bark as if no one can hear you
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lick like there's no end to kissing
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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Strattorr » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:58 pm

Thanks to you both.

Hawthorn, we make sure to never leave in a rush, we always give him plenty of time to hang out with us, eat his meal, sniff around, play etc. We do training etc and we have made a point to not have a "routine" like finding our keys, coat, then gone type of thing. We have even experimented leaving for short bursts (variable time standing just outside the door). I've even locked the door in case he can hear that and associates that with leaving. We never say good bye or make a big deal out of leaving EVER. When we come home we act like nothing ever happened as well, even ignoring him for a minute or 2).

Right now he is crated in our room without the door locked, so when he wakes up, he will come to the bed and say hello, and if we are not yet ready to wake up we will say "go to your room" and he will happily head back to his crate and flop down. Eventually though we had hoped to not have him sleep in our room. Ever since he busted his foot, we haven't had him locked in his crate. He has never been afraid of it and always enters willingly (we feed him in there too). He has big callouses on the webbing of his paws where he has repeatedly pawed at the door, forcing the metal beam between his fingers.

Knox is an only dog. This is something we were aware of when we got him (we did quite a bit of research) so I do know this problem would be remedied quite a bit if we had another dog, but that's not something we can really afford to do right now.

So perhaps it is his fear stages creeping in and other things he is doing to test us, we are doing our best to stay consistent. I mostly want to hear that there is light at the end of the tunnel, that he can/will out grow this and "learn" that being alone is ok, as we will always come home to him... But maybe this is going to be an ongoing problem, at which case I need to prepare my partner. I keep telling her that he will eventually out grow this just like he out grew his biting and using the bathroom in the house. Maybe I'm naïve to think that he will eventually just sleep the day away when we are gone (the way he does when we are home with him!).

any other success stories or pieces of motivation would be greatly appreciated!

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Hawthorne » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:04 pm

My two females are fine home alone. Our male we did not own until he was 5 months and he came to us with problems. So, yes, I think if you are consistent and build up the time slowly he will outgrow it.
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by chelle784 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:34 am

Hi

I have tamrakar ginny and recently she has been acting the same re the digging where people come and go because of newly developed separation anxiety.

She used to be fine when we left but recently she has started barking when we leave. We have gone back to crating her hoepfully only temporarily for her own safety as she pulled the skirting up near the front door trying to get out and pulled up 2 large nails. She seems calmer in the crate but I want to go back to not crating her. She had a dog gate before across a room but ended up squeezing through the bars and bending them.

I assumed it was something to do with how we moved to a different house because it only started when we moved. She was spayed 2 weeks ago but that was for no pups reasons not behaviour related things.

She also whines and gets agitated when one of us leaves and the other is still there. Example- i walked across the street to post something in the mailbox and she started yelping even though my husband was walking her. Also when i work from home she whines and paces up and down when my husband leaves.

She gets 5-6 walks a day but this only started when we moved so I am assuming the change has triggered this. Before the stuffed kong/ other similar things would be a distraction and she wouldnt notice us leave. Now nothing works, not even tasty stinky tripe. Pepper is the same as knox because as soon as we get back, thats when she gobbles up whatever is in the kong!

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Strattorr » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:18 pm

Knox acts the same way, when one leaves, he is anxious and pacing the house and looking at the door.

Things took a turn for the worse last night, I took him to meet a friend of mine at a house he has never been in. He was pleasant at first, but then a little later I was bent over to pick up a box on the floor and my buddy bent down and reached near my feet (as the bottom of the box was starting to come out) and Knox barked and jumped up and bit his forearm...... this was shocking to both of us. He ripped my friends really nice/expensive winter shell jacket....

so in the past 10 days he has been on antibiotics for his paw, and has not been able to have as much exercise. In these 10 days he has now began to growl at people, bark, be weary of some people and lunge at others (I have held him back from other people who have come to work on our house). Now he bit someone. I am praying that he is just super wound up due to the lack of exercise from the injury.... I certainly don't want/need my dog to "protect me" so hopefully this is just a phase

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:16 pm

When you say bite--did he bite to defend (as in bite hard?) or was he playing? What did you do to correct Knox? Is your friend nervous around dogs? Is there anything different about your friend that your pup may not have encountered before (beard, hat, really tall)? The situation is difficult to assess without actually seeing what happened.

And yes, assuming your pup was not actually being aggressive, it is just a phase. These dogs are not fully mentally developed until age 2+. They will continue to test you, and you will need to continue to guide their behavior. Freyja, now almost 5, is very mellow. She doesn't jump up, she doesn't go nuts when we get home, she's calm when I leave in the morning and she is THE BEST DOG EVER! I love her to pieces. Anyhow...Darwin just turned 3 and he behaves himself in public because he knows better (at the store, at the park) but he does jump up on us on occasion when we come home. My point is: bad behavior will diminish slowly over time if you are consistent in your training methods. This breed is very smart, needs mental stimulation and a firm hand in training. They are lovely dogs! But it will take some work :)
Raven is in her "teenager" stage at 18 months.
All of them still have "puppy spazes" now and again--but I think they're funny. (Run full tilt at the couch, jump, land on the couch, flail around and kick all the cushions off, stop, flail around some more).
We continued to crate our Tamaskan through their teenage times. They will continue to get into things. Ours all love paper products: tissues, mail, phone books...all shredded. To keep the dogs safe, they really should be crated.
Hang in there! You have a good dog--you just have to see this through :) I know the sire very well and he is an absolute doll. He sired Freyja's first litter and is Raven's dad. Raven is a cuddlebug. :D
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Tiantai » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:00 am

Reading down all the above I am given the impression that your dog is going through a common maturing phase. (Not talking about that unfortunate injury part :( ) I don't believe male hormones have anything to do with this either. There is a lot of method you could encourage him not to be so tense when home alone or in any future cases of him showing signs of nervousness towards household objects like washing machines and vacuums. I'm not saying your dog will definitely be scared of those items, all dogs are different - just using them as an example.
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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Gaby » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:31 am

That's a difficult situation. But please, please do not neuter your dog now. You can always do that later in time, but once you have done it, you can never make in undone. To me it sounds like that the problems he has are related to anxiety. Remove the testicles and you remove the biggest source of the male hormone testosterone, and you can increase the level of anxiety. Problems can even be harder to fix when an anxious dog is castrated, IF the problem is related to anxiety of course. (For bitches it is the other way around! The uterus produces estrogen, the female hormone and when you remove the uterus, you remove the source of these hormones and they can be a bit more difficult to handle, but more even tempered, because they don't have the mood swings that are affiliated with their heat cycles.)

It sounds like your dog has separation anxiety and please start over again with training him to be home alone. Don't let him be alone and if you have to go away, arrange somebody to "doggy sit". I've had the same problems with my dogs, so I know what I'm talking about. ;) It does take small steps and a lot of time and patience, but if you don't address the problem it will only get worse. I found out that my dogs took advantage from a 'go away' ritual, despite other people tell usually to leave without making a fuss. My dogs always get something to chew on when I leave, with training in the beginning I left the house unexpected they were in a more alert state all the time, the way I do it know gives them more peace.

About the biting thing, it is very important to know what caused the behavior, playfulness, fear, dominance, etc.

The barking and lunging in the street is usually also caused by fear though. What you can do is carry a lot of treats around when walking the dog, and when he sees something he is scared of, he gets a treat with you for not lunging. The goal is to have a dog that thinks "Scary person = treat from owner". The scary person won't be scary any more, because it's getting associated with treats. But you have to do the treat thing before the dog lunges, you do not want to reward the dog for lunging. So you see a person with a hat and you think that your dog could react to that person. Call your dog, hold the treat by his nose, walk past the person, give the treat and praise your dog. You have to do something about this now, before the dog is too big and the behavoir is his normal way of being. Than it is far more difficult to change it.

On a personal note, I can't judge the situation from a computer screen, dog behavior is complex and the way he interacts with you is also very important and I don't know anything about that, but I wanted to give you some advice you can consider. If you think you can't do this on your own please contact a professional dogtrainer, preferably one that knows to handle polar/wolf breeds and trains in a positive way!

Edit: Hope you understand my message, English is not my native language. ;)

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by balto13 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:37 pm

Gaby wrote:
On a personal note, I can't judge the situation from a computer screen, dog behavior is complex and the way he interacts with you is also very important and I don't know anything about that, but I wanted to give you some advice you can consider. If you think you can't do this on your own please contact a professional dogtrainer, preferably one that knows to handle polar/wolf breeds and trains in a positive way!
well said! :D

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:46 pm

I agree with Gaby, too!
You can work through this with him and he will be fine. :D
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Nino » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:50 pm

I personally do not think early neutering is a good idea as it stops some of the developement in the dog (which is due to hormones being removed when the testies are).
But in case that you DO think that it could help, then I would go with a "trial" and do a chemical castration which can be only temporary and used to see if the behaviour is due to the hormones or to something else (which I personally am inclined to think)
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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by arianwenarie » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:51 pm

Nino wrote:I personally do not think early neutering is a good idea as it stops some of the developement in the dog (which is due to hormones being removed when the testies are).
But in case that you DO think that it could help, then I would go with a "trial" and do a chemical castration which can be only temporary and used to see if the behaviour is due to the hormones or to something else (which I personally am inclined to think)
Isn't chemical castration rather painful...? o_O

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Nino » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:20 pm

Not as far as I am informed..?

A quick googling brought up this product used in Denmark;
Suprelorin which I believe is a bit like a chip that is put in the shoulder/back/loin area under the loose skin (I could have misunderstood though).
Depending on the dose it is supposed to work between 6 and 12 months.

As far as I can gather the side effect can be some soreness and a bit of swelling in the implantation area for the first 1-2 weeks.

Other side effects (which however can also come with a normal castration) can be: weight gain, lethargy, and failure to respond to therapy (no change in the behaviour).

Another source:
In rare cases it have been seen that the testies become slightly smaller. In very rare cases (less than 0.01% of the cases) there have been noted a passing increse in sexual interest, slightly enlarged testies and pains in the testies - just after the implementing of the product. These dissapeared withouth treatment.

In between 0.1% and 0.01% of the cases there was, baldness/hairloss/coat changes, incontinence, less activity.

In less than 0.01% of the cases there were reported temporary behaviour change eg. devopement of aggression.


But Then again I would like to note that all of these are just as likely to happen in a normal castration.
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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Strattorr » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:49 pm

Thank you everyone for your responses

As I have been reading more, I agree with you and do not think that neutering is necessary or the problem.

I am now very confidently dealing with some extreme Separation anxiety here. I came home yesterday to him having completely destroyed the door to his crate. He couldn't get out but the bars were literally bent left and right and pushed away from the support bars. In the process he has completely sliced the webbing of his other paw in between 2 of his toes... Another trip to the vet just now and he is back on meds for inflammation in his other paw (the one originally injured is still swollen and has no fur from his licking) and to help with the new cut.

I have purchased a Thundershirt today and one of you sent me a very detailed report on how to get rid of SA (Thank you). There is a wealth of info on the internet regarding it as well, but I must admit that I am not very confident I am going to break this. I know patience is needed, but my partner and I have already sacrificed so much time from work and called in so many favours from friends to dog sit I don't know where we are going to get the time to properly handle this.

wish us luck

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by arianwenarie » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:56 pm

In conjunction to the Thundershirt, you can also try My Peaceful Paws. In order for a higher success rate, you'll have to start applying it when he's calm and work him up to the point where he associates the scent of the oils to being calm and relaxed.

Bach's Rescue Remedy is a flower/plant based calming blend, but it must be ingested for it to work. My Peaceful Paws is an essential oil blend and works differently and faster. You can also use it when you're giving him a massage - the massage time (for him) would also help both of you relax and unwind. :)

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:39 pm

Be careful that he doesn't eat the Thundershirt while you are away.
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

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Re: is it time to Neuter my dog? He has changed!

Post by Nino » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:43 am

DAP feromones might help you too..

(I tried buying a Thundershirt 6+ months ago, but the thing never arrived :-( )
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