Epileptic Seizure

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Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:02 pm

Last night on my way home from dropping my brother off to work, my husband rang me to inform that poor Nanaki had a seizure. He explained it as him having a nightmare of nightmares, made lots of noise in the crate. He is still currently taking Tussigon and Bactrim for his Kennel Cough. Going to call the vet when they open and see if we can get him in before I go into work, though most likely will be scheduled for a later time :(
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Sylvaen » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:59 pm

omg :(
really sorry to hear that, could it be caused by the medicine he's currently taking?
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Gaby » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:50 pm

Oh the poor thing... :( I hope it will never happen again..

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:20 pm

We just got back home from the vet. He's not totally convinced that he had a seizure, said even if he was would be telling us the same thing he is now. From what it sounds, he said it could of been a violent nightmare or he could of gotten his paw caught in the crate but for now we just need to keep an eye on him and hope it doesn't happen again within a month only then be more concerned. He checked his heart-beat and lungs and said they sounded normal and clear, even did a blood-sugar test to rule anything else out and it also came back normal. All is well right now, we just need to keep an eye on him :)
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:23 pm

so happy to hear that. i'll keep fingers crossed for u the whole month :)
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Gaby » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:32 pm

I hope the vet was right. But I am doubting, I believe I would see the difference between a nightmare and seizure. With a seizure you can't make contact with your dog. How did Nanaki react when your husband was with him? It is nice that the values were normal, I really hope it won't happen again!! I will keep my fingers crossed too. ;)

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by sky » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:11 pm

Grand mal seizures are very distinguishable. Juneau unfortunately still has them on a monthly basis. Did he show signs of typical paddling, drooling, jawing, etc. during the episode? Was he very disoriented afterwards for anywhere from 30 minutes-hours later? Or sometimes Juneau enters this other state where every motion is really jerky afterwards for at least 30 minutes. Some dogs don't have the full grand mal type, so if that was the case here he may have only seen minor symptoms. Did you ever find out anything on his background? I sure hope it has to do with side effects of the medication or something else. Even if it was a seizure it could be something like a brain tumor, prior head injury, distemper or encephalitis among some and not necessarily epilepsy.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by JulieSmith » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:17 pm

Sorry to hear about poor Nanaki, I hope he will be OK.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Rahne » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:29 pm

I hope it isn't epilepsy and that he will be fine :(

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:37 pm

sky wrote:Grand mal seizures are very distinguishable. Juneau unfortunately still has them on a monthly basis. Did he show signs of typical paddling, drooling, jawing, etc. during the episode? Was he very disoriented afterwards for anywhere from 30 minutes-hours later? Or sometimes Juneau enters this other state where every motion is really jerky afterwards for at least 30 minutes. Some dogs don't have the full grand mal type, so if that was the case here he may have only seen minor symptoms. Did you ever find out anything on his background? I sure hope it has to do with side effects of the medication or something else. Even if it was a seizure it could be something like a brain tumor, prior head injury, distemper or encephalitis among some and not necessarily epilepsy.
My husband said it only lasted less then a minute and after that he just sat up for a little while and was fine. We don't know anything of his background yet, still waiting to get the swab test in the mail from John.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by wicca1 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:28 am

poor baby, hope he's ok :( .

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by blufawn » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:35 pm

I hope he is ok, but Gaby is right, the difference between a seizure and getting his foot stuck in the crate bars is huge.
But for the dogs sake I am hoping your husband is dim witted (sorry about that)
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:49 pm

It was the vets guess of maybe paw being caught but I'm sure that is ruled put as there would of been yelping. My husband described it as like when a dog twitches in their sleep, but this was way more so I'm hoping it was a violent dream as we have never seen a dog have a seizure before, so for his sake I do hope it is out of our lack of experience.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:10 pm

My dogs do have quite violent dreams... not just snoring and twitching but also they move their legs like they are running and Vixen sometimes barks in her sleep until I tell her to hush. lol :roll: :lol:

Did Nanaki seem really dazed and confused after he "woke up" or was he totally normal?
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:14 pm

He said he seemed a bit dazed, kinda had himself propped up by his front paws but not like a full sit? He seemed okay like nothing happened once I was home.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Kiriyama » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:47 am

Hope he recovers quickly, all the best.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu May 05, 2011 5:53 am

Saddly it has been confirmed. My brother told me that yesterday Nanaki had about 5 seizures (poor brother even cried he was so scared and worried). They went to the vet today, Nanaki had another seizure on the way there. The vet gave him Phenobarbital to take and said that if he has another tomorrow to take him back and they will up the dosage. After the vet they came to visit me at my work, again poor Nanaki had another. :( I wanted to cry as I watched and my brother holding onto him telling him to stay with him. I visited him after work at my mothers house, poor boy seemed weak.

Would anyone recommend anything better to take or what to feed? He currently eats Blue Buffalo Wilderness Duck Recipe. I would tell my brother to go raw but my mum won't allow it :roll: She thinks dogs eating raw meat would make them aggressive :roll:
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by TerriHolt » Thu May 05, 2011 6:54 am

sorry to hear that, i hope u get them under control soon. i know how scared i was the first time i saw my cousin have one (but i was really young). must have been awfull for you and your brother. how is nanaki today?
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Rahne » Thu May 05, 2011 9:36 am

Aww, i'm sorry to hear that :(
Has the vet ruled out any causes for the epilepsy? How old is Nanaki now?

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Wave2Tuffy » Thu May 05, 2011 10:12 am

How awful :cry: :cry: I hope they can figure out what is going on.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Sylvaen » Thu May 05, 2011 11:14 am

Sorry to hear this news. :(
Hopefully the vet can get to the bottom of what is causing the seizures and if it can be treated.
HiTenshi16 wrote:Would anyone recommend anything better to take or what to feed? He currently eats Blue Buffalo Wilderness Duck Recipe. I would tell my brother to go raw but my mum won't allow it :roll: She thinks dogs eating raw meat would make them aggressive :roll:
Raw meat / BARF does NOT make dogs aggressive! It is their natural diet! My dogs are actually calmer on BARF diet - I think all the chemicals / preservatives in the kibble was making them hyperactive (like children with processed food / candy - organic is much healthier and, in this case, BARF is like giving vegetables to children... it's much better and more natural for them than fast food!). I think you need to spend some time educating your mum about the benefits (as it is much healthier than kibble) and it could do a lot to help his seizures, which may even be related to the chemicals/preservatives in the dry food. Everyone I know with an epileptic dog has switched to raw food and found that it made a world of difference (visible improvement) so I absolutely recommend it.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Misaya » Thu May 05, 2011 11:44 am

I am really sorry to hear this. you and your brother must be so worried.

I totally agree with Sylvaen - feeding raw does not make dogs aggressive and may be beneficial. If you are interested in doing some research you may find this site helpful - http://www.ukrmb.co.uk/. There is a link to a yahoo group which is incredibly helpful and some have had success with reducing seizures by feeding raw. Although it is a UK site there are members from the USA, Canada, etc. This may also be useful regarding myths and raw feeding: http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html.

Also there is a school of thought that over-vaccination can trigger epilepsy - with Nanaki being a rescue he would have probably had various vaccinations before being rehomed.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Thu May 05, 2011 2:53 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Sorry to hear this news. :(
Hopefully the vet can get to the bottom of what is causing the seizures and if it can be treated.
HiTenshi16 wrote:Would anyone recommend anything better to take or what to feed? He currently eats Blue Buffalo Wilderness Duck Recipe. I would tell my brother to go raw but my mum won't allow it :roll: She thinks dogs eating raw meat would make them aggressive :roll:
Raw meat / BARF does NOT make dogs aggressive! It is their natural diet! My dogs are actually calmer on BARF diet - I think all the chemicals / preservatives in the kibble was making them hyperactive (like children with processed food / candy - organic is much healthier and, in this case, BARF is like giving vegetables to children... it's much better and more natural for them than fast food!). I think you need to spend some time educating your mum about the benefits (as it is much healthier than kibble) and it could do a lot to help his seizures, which may even be related to the chemicals/preservatives in the dry food. Everyone I know with an epileptic dog has switched to raw food and found that it made a world of difference (visible improvement) so I absolutely recommend it.
I have tried to educate my mother about raw meat, but she is one of those people that we can't stand and you can't get through to her because she will not listen.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by JulieSmith » Thu May 05, 2011 9:17 pm

Sorry to hear this news, I hope the medication works. Could you suggest to your mum that you try raw for a week and if he turns aggressive you will stop? That way she will feel in control still.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by blufawn » Thu May 05, 2011 10:05 pm

Im very sorry to hear about your brothers dog. But in a way I am glad that your brother has him and he does not have to suffer through this in a rescue center, they would surely have just put him to sleep.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by wicca1 » Thu May 05, 2011 11:08 pm

o'h poor baby, hope everything works out ok for you all :( .

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by TeresaC » Fri May 06, 2011 1:19 am

I wish you the very best of luck. I took on a rescue puppy that I ended up keeping. The owners were going to "dump" him because he was so stupid. After some observattion, we realized he was having petite seizures. A daily dose of phenobarbital and he was fine. He was not dumb, he was sick.

Anyway, there are lots of medical treatments available. I will also attest to the fact that the BARF diet does not create aggressive dogs. I feed four dogs in a small room bowls of raw meat. They have outstanding health and I do not have agression during meal time.

You should continue to work with your vet to see if you can figure out what triggered the seizures. It could also just as easily be environmental. Things like lawn applications, fertilizers are all prevalent in the spring. Cleaners can cause seizures as well and they can be absorbed though the pads. There are so many avenues to explore.

Good luck!!
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri May 06, 2011 1:28 am

Thank you, I gave them a call to see how he is doing. My sister told me he seems okay today, not weak like how we saw him last night but sleeping much more. My brother will have to save a lot of money before he can work with the vet and do some tests. We will try to keep everyone updated on how he is doing.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Tarheel » Sat May 07, 2011 4:32 pm

I recommend that you PM Tricia (username: "Sky") - her Tamaskan, Juenau, has Epilepsy and she has been dealing with this for a couple years. If anyone has hands-on eperiance with this, it would be her.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by blufawn » Mon May 09, 2011 9:18 am

Epilepsy is a disease that is found in ALL breeds of dog. We have had two cases in the Tamaskan breed, one of Alba breeding and the other from Rightpuppy Kennel in America (although its hard to ignore the possibility of environmental issues when the pups come from commercial kennels) however epilepsy is now known to be carried in old Utonagan lines, most notably the dogs Keisha and Cougar who are in a lot of Tamaskan lines. There are now breeding rules in place to help protect Tamaskan from this disease.
While Nanaki is not a Tamaskan we have found out, he could still be from RPK.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by AZDehlin » Mon May 09, 2011 10:00 am

Ah ha, thanks for the clarification. I hope the right dosage of meds are figured out so he can live with the disease comfortable.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by MoirAran » Mon May 09, 2011 11:54 am

Sorry to hear about Nanaki :(
We had a Jack Russel with severe epilepsy. It is an awful disease.

Epilepsy can be food related, so indeed feeding a raw diet can help. Also avoding treats with grains in it etc.
Your brother can start a diary, so after a while maybe he will discover what is triggering the seizures.
And like John says: talking to other owners to share your experience with your dogs.

Good luck !
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Sylvaen » Mon May 09, 2011 1:50 pm

blufawn wrote:Epilepsy is a disease that is found in ALL breeds of dog. We have had two cases in the Tamaskan breed, one of Alba breeding and the other from Rightpuppy Kennel in America (although its hard to ignore the possibility of environmental issues when the pups come from commercial kennels) however epilepsy is now known to be carried in old Utonagan lines, most notably the dogs Keisha and Cougar who are in a lot of Tamaskan lines. There are now breeding rules in place to help protect Tamaskan from this disease.
While Nanaki is not a Tamaskan we have found out, he could still be from RPK.
DNA profiling has concluded that Nanaki is not directly related to any known Tamaskan bloodlines; however, as Jennie says, it is possible that he comes from RPK bloodlines - we just don't have the DNA profiles for comparison.

Also, it might not even be epilepsy... until tests are conducted, it can't be confirmed.
Seizures are a symptom of a range of possible issues...
The following disorders may be the source of seizures in a dog:

- Structural or developmental abnormality
- Reaction to toxin or allergen
- Systemic disorder, such as liver shunt or thyroid disease
- Bacterial or viral infection
- Brain tumor (malignant or benign)
- Idiopathic Epilepsy
http://dogs.about.com/od/caninediseases/p/seizures.htm
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Mon May 09, 2011 2:43 pm

Thank you for all your help and advice! Hopefully my brother will be able to have the tests done. I'm starting to think it's because my mother has been giving him her dog's food to him (Purina Alpo Prime Cuts Savory Beef Flavor) and also feeding him table scraps. My brother will tell her to stop but then she won't listen and gives this stupid excuse, "My house and I paid for this food so I can do what I want with it."
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Tarheel » Mon May 09, 2011 7:41 pm

The main ingredient in the Prurina Alpo Prime Cuts Savory Beef Flavor is (Ground Yelow Corn) I have learned that dogs of this type do much better on a grain free diet. If you spend the few extra dollars and get a quality food, you will save on vet bills. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by JulieSmith » Tue May 10, 2011 12:25 am

HiTenshi16 wrote:Thank you for all your help and advice! Hopefully my brother will be able to have the tests done. I'm starting to think it's because my mother has been giving him her dog's food to him (Purina Alpo Prime Cuts Savory Beef Flavor) and also feeding him table scraps. My brother will tell her to stop but then she won't listen and gives this stupid excuse, "My house and I paid for this food so I can do what I want with it."
Its always hard when living with a parent as an adult, especially one that likes to be in control. Do you both live at home or do you have your own place? If you have your own place could your brother visit with Nanaki for a week to try the different food and see if that helps? If that fails can he try my dog, I paid for him I say what he eats? But then he still has to live with your mother :?

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Tue May 10, 2011 1:43 am

I have my own place with my husband, my brother is stuck living with our mom, other brother and two sisters. Aside from the one seizure Nanaki was fine when he and my brother were living here for the few weeks. My brother has been feeding him Blue Buffalo Wilderness Duck Recipe. I'm going to try to talk to my mom tonight about her feeding Nanaki. Wish me luck.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Tue May 10, 2011 3:49 am

The whole me talking to my mom thing didn't work out :roll: :x ended up arguing what felt like to a wall that yells back.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by TerriHolt » Tue May 10, 2011 5:24 am

HiTenshi16 wrote:what felt like to a wall that yells back.
maybe he could try staying with you like julie said... and if it works, it could prove to your mother that she is wrong....
(your mum sounds like my grandma... so i know how frustrating it must be for you... except it's her dog i'm trying to educate her about :? , but that is a whole diferant and long story :lol:) .

wish i could help you more but your mum sounds stubborn
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Tue May 10, 2011 1:30 pm

He has once tried as well. She said that the vet was not concerened about his diet or mentioned any thought of it maybe being stress related so we don't know what we are talking about, we don't know because we're not experienced vets :evil: I wonder how she brought me up right when she can be so ignorant like this.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by blufawn » Tue May 10, 2011 2:35 pm

Maybe you should try printing out some vet studies off the internet for her to read?
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by JulieSmith » Tue May 10, 2011 3:01 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:He has once tried as well. She said that the vet was not concerened about his diet or mentioned any thought of it maybe being stress related so we don't know what we are talking about, we don't know because we're not experienced vets :evil: I wonder how she brought me up right when she can be so ignorant like this.
Could you get the vet to talk to her, as long as the vet would say the right things and back you up!! Although from what you say you may as well talk to the wall. "hello wall" :mrgreen:

Don't be too hard on your mum, if you went into her past there is probably good reasons why she is so stubborn, you are a large family and that takes hard work, also having to make decisions for all the kids probably sticks and she still sees you all as kids needing her, or she would like you to still be kids. It could be fear that if you are old enough to make decisions she will mot be needed and not have a role in your lives. Sorry rambled enough.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Misaya » Wed May 11, 2011 7:48 pm

Well, the trouble with vets is that most of them are anti raw feeding. Most of them sell particular brands of commercial food and no doubt are paid to do so. Also I believe, at least in the UK, they receive little training on nutrition and what they do receive is sponsored by a commercial food producer so somewhat biased. Furthermore, they probably make a fair amount of money from commercially fed dogs re teeth cleaning and all the other problems it produces. I'm not saying they are all in it for the money at the expense of the welfare of the animals, but I do believe many are deceived by the huge corporations.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by TerriHolt » Wed May 11, 2011 9:18 pm

if they are owt like my vets, they know very little about very little :| ... they are all in it for the money and not for the love of animals :evil: ... but then again, i have my own issues i need to forgive them for :oops: , i'm sure yours will be much better :D , it could be worth a try...
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by kendrrat » Mon May 16, 2011 9:10 am

i know exactly how you feel, trying to educate someone who sticks to old ways or just wont listen. my parents are exactly like that! my dad believes all pitbulls are inherently aggressive and dangerous. and i tried talking to my mom about switching to raw and even showed her tons of literature about it and she just thinks "no, i dont think rorri's stomach can handle it...". really i think its her germophobism is the cause for her hesitation there (though rorri does have a pretty sensitive tummy...) she even refuses to switch to origen!!! i went out and bought her a small trial size bag, she hasnt used it.

i guess my point here is sometimes you just can change someones mind, no matter what. obviously you've both done all you can to change your mom's mind about feeding, so maybe its time to attack the situation a different way. when door A doesnt open, climb through window B, right? maybe you guys need to find some way to temporarily take complete control of nanakis feeding- like when your brother lived with you. and maybe if that proves to be helpful to his health, you can make the situation more permanent- like maybe it will prove to your mom that this is what he needs to be healthy?

im not saying you need to move nanaki out of your mom's house or anything, thats all up to your family what the solution is, but just maybe changing the situation somehow can help. and still, theres no guarantee that different diet will help, and theres no guarantee that it can change your moms mind, but hey- its a good shot!

and you could try telling the vet what you plan on doing, and if they are open minded and friendly like the vets i know hopefully they will help you convince your mom that this diet couldnt hurt and could possibly help?

good luck! wish you all and nanaki the best!

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by AngieH » Mon May 16, 2011 2:17 pm

<sigh> As a health coach and a Nurse, I learned long ago that you don't get to pick what someone else wants. No matter how good it would be for them or those around them.
It's not about being persuasive. It about being motivating. People only make changes *they* want to make for *their* own reasons.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by AZDehlin » Tue May 17, 2011 4:04 am

AngieH wrote:<sigh> As a health coach and a Nurse, I learned long ago that you don't get to pick what someone else wants. No matter how good it would be for them or those around them.
It's not about being persuasive. It about being motivating. People only make changes *they* want to make for *their* own reasons.

Good Luck,
~Angie
So true... Just got to educate and hope they take the info instead of leaving it.

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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by HiTenshi16 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:13 am

I'm praying this is a one time happening but knowing it is in the lines, I fear the worst. I've already made note of it in my calendar as follows.
"Woke up at about 1:30am to Ulric, who fell off the bed, having what appeared to be a violent seizure that lasted maybe 30 seconds, felt longer. Seemed confused after coming out of it, was a bit wobbly. He has been exploring the bedroom, seems slightly weak in hind legs, panting a bit, time is now 1:44am
He is now finally laying down, on the floor, I guess going back to sleep."
He did not eat anything different from his normal diet today, only thing different was he chewed on a new toy from the grocery store, disposing of it just in case.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by Hawthorne » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:45 pm

Thinking of you, Jo. Just remember that not all seizures are epileptic fits. Lots of causes can be environmental so let's hope for that.
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Re: Epileptic Seizure

Post by akaye531 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:04 am

Keeping you and Ulric in our thoughts. Please keep us updated.

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