Socialization vs Immunization

All topics pertaining to health and diseases that may affect your Tamaskan Dog, as well as treatment.
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Sylvaen
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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Sylvaen » Sat May 19, 2012 9:11 am

The problem is that her new ID card will take 14 days to arrive and she definitely wants to put down a deposit, she just isn't sure which puppy she wants (the red collar female or the orange collar female). Unless she puts down a deposit soon to reserve the puppy of her choice, there's a chance that someone else will come along and reserve one of those females - which might end up being the one she prefers. It probably takes at least a week for the vaccine to take effect, but the pups will also get the 2nd set of vaccines at 10 weeks old and the final set in the series at 13 weeks old - this means that they will only be fully immune around 14 weeks old. Of course it should be fine to travel with them when they are 7-8 weeks old, I'm just not sure how wise it is if those pups will then both be brought BACK to the rest of litter (possibly spreading contagious diseases if they are unlucky enough to contract any on this trip).
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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Booma » Sat May 19, 2012 9:23 am

How far is the trip? Maybe she could meet them somewhere "safe" like a local vet?
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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by MelB » Sat May 19, 2012 9:28 am

Personally I wouldn't risk it. I assume he wouldn't take a completely un-vaccinated pup to her at the risk them getting infected and bringing something back to the rest of the litter, so why take two that to all intents and purposes are un-vaccinated because it will take at least a week for yesterday's shots to start taking effect and even more shots until fully protected?

Someone's ID card running out is not the breeders problem. Many people don't get to pick which one they want because they live too far away.

Sorry, it's a no-brainer. Do NOT take the pups.

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Rahne » Sat May 19, 2012 9:36 am

I wouldn't see too much problems with it if you make sure the pups don't get into contact with any other dogs and you keep them off the ground (especially of the streets and grass that is used by dogs for toilet). They could also 'catch' something in the garden..

I know many breeders who take their 6/7 week old pups to the vet, to the park, to the shopping mall etc. for socialization.

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Sylvaen » Sat May 19, 2012 9:52 am

It's a tough decision because I can clearly see both sides to the argument... they probably aren't immune but, at the same time, they are probably old enough to handle the journey (4 hours by car round trip) without any negative side-effects.

UPDATE: Andrija will take the 2 girl pups but they will stay in the car - I lent him my large size dog crate so the pups will be able to travel in comfort and safety (not just loose in the car). Hopefully the Slovenian lady will be able to see and interact with them enough (in the car) so that she can pick out the one she wants... though I'm not sure if she'll get a very good idea of their characters if they are both feeling very carsick and miserable.

Anyway, I told Andrija to keep me updated by phone - his friend will also go along for the ride (to help with keeping an eye on the pups while he is driving and also for extra 'security')... you can never be too careful these days as I've heard of people arranging 'meetings' just to grab the puppies and take off with them. I doubt anything like that will happen but it never hurts to be extra cautious for a first-time meeting. Another concern is that when he's crossing the border they might not believe that he is just 'going to show the puppies to a lady and bring them right back' and the customs officers might expect him to pay 25% import tax if they believe that he is going to sell the puppies today... however, as long as he doesn't mention their true value, he could pay a small fee if necessary.
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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by TerriHolt » Sat May 19, 2012 10:51 am

He could get the person who's wanting him to come to pay the 'small fee', like melB said, someone's ID card running out is not the breeders problem and only about 2% get to pick their own pup so him having to use fuel and pay a small tax is unfair to ask him to do that... Not to mention he has had them vaccined as well, that will also save them money which i think they are very lucky for... Just hope there isn't too much toilet accidents in the car, could get messy :D
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Sylvaen » Sat May 19, 2012 11:37 am

TerriHolt wrote:He could get the person who's wanting him to come to pay the 'small fee', like melB said, someone's ID card running out is not the breeders problem and only about 2% get to pick their own pup so him having to use fuel and pay a small tax is unfair to ask him to do that...
True - but Andrija would rather see the pups all go to good homes so he doesn't mind spending a little bit of his own money to ensure this becomes reality. He probably hasn't even considered asking her for reimbursement... as long as she brings the deposit with her in cash and definitely picks which one she wants to reserve, then Andrija would consider it a worthwhile effort. I told him that it isn't standard practice and that he is definitely going above-and-beyond the usual service to cater to her as a puppy purchaser but with several puppies still available I think he just wants to guarantee that another puppy has a good home lined up. Once she pays the deposit, there are still an additional 5 puppies available...
TerriHolt wrote:Not to mention he has had them vaccined as well, that will also save them money which i think they are very lucky for...
Indeed. Each of the puppies has been dewormed (3 times), had the first set of vaccinations, and are microchipped; every puppy also has its own EU pet passport. This is all included in the purchase price... the only additional expense is transport costs (150 euros per puppy) to drive them to Germany on June 9th - it is a really good deal overall as it will save the owners a lot of money compared to shipping by plane cargo or for them to individually drive to Croatia to collect their pups in person.
TerriHolt wrote:Just hope there isn't too much toilet accidents in the car, could get messy :D
True, though this litter doesn't seem too badly affected by carsickness - we drove them to the vet yesterday and most of the pups just slept the whole way there and back.
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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by TerriHolt » Sat May 19, 2012 12:05 pm

Sylvaen wrote:True, though this litter doesn't seem too badly affected by carsickness - we drove them to the vet yesterday and most of the pups just slept the whole way there and back.
Oh so jealous of puppy owners... The kids need a snorkel for the back off my car :lol:
Sylvaen wrote:True - but Andrija would rather see the pups all go to good homes so he doesn't mind spending a little bit of his own money to ensure this becomes reality. He probably hasn't even considered asking her for reimbursement... as long as she brings the deposit with her in cash and definitely picks which one she wants to reserve, then Andrija would consider it a worthwhile effort.
Wow... he's awesome :shock: ... Most breeders ask for the smallest amount of cost back if it means they dipped into their own pocket which is what made me think of it...
Sylvaen wrote:Indeed. Each of the puppies has been dewormed (3 times), had the first set of vaccinations, and are microchipped; every puppy also has its own EU pet passport.
Sam didn't come with injections... It was an additional cost of £70 for the full set of vaccines and £35 because i picked him up too early, Jennie didn't get there in time to chip him :oops: :lol:
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Rahne » Sat May 19, 2012 12:26 pm

TerriHolt wrote: Sam didn't come with injections... It was an additional cost of £70 for the full set of vaccines and £35 because i picked him up too early, Jennie didn't get there in time to chip him :oops: :lol:
At what age did you pick him up then??

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by TerriHolt » Sat May 19, 2012 12:31 pm

Rahne wrote:
TerriHolt wrote: Sam didn't come with injections... It was an additional cost of £70 for the full set of vaccines and £35 because i picked him up too early, Jennie didn't get there in time to chip him :oops: :lol:
At what age did you pick him up then??
The usual, 8 weeks... I meant i came too early in the day :oops: ... Jennie did the rest of the litter that day but after i'd been and gone...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

Rahne

Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Rahne » Sat May 19, 2012 12:38 pm

TerriHolt wrote:
Rahne wrote:
TerriHolt wrote: Sam didn't come with injections... It was an additional cost of £70 for the full set of vaccines and £35 because i picked him up too early, Jennie didn't get there in time to chip him :oops: :lol:
At what age did you pick him up then??
The usual, 8 weeks... I meant i came too early in the day :oops: ... Jennie did the rest of the litter that day but after i'd been and gone...
ok but shouldn't he have had his 1st set of vaccinations then?

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by MelB » Sat May 19, 2012 1:55 pm

It seems not everyone vaccinates puppies before homing.
We picked Cindy up aged 7 weeks 5 days. She had no vaccinations then either.

Different breeders do things differently

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Rahne » Sat May 19, 2012 1:59 pm

hmm I actually thought it was a requirement for Tamaskan breeders to make sure the pups had their 1st vaccinations before leaving to a new home :?

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by TerriHolt » Sat May 19, 2012 2:05 pm

Tbh, he was the 1st pup i have bought... My GSD was an older rescue so i never really thought about it at the time...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Nino » Sat May 19, 2012 2:22 pm

Sølve had No vaccinations when we picked her up in Germany at 7 weeks and 6 days.

I would say he could go as long as he makes sure that the pups are kept off doggy grounds - and make sure that the lady washes before going so she won't bring something nasty - maybe it was a good idea if they met just on the other side of the border so the pups didn't have to go too far ?

He's certainly doing a good job ! Thumps up to that!
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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Finn1 » Sat May 19, 2012 8:17 pm

Socialisation absolutely, Finn has been out and about since his first injection at 8 weeks, although only in environments where he is around other inoculated dogs.

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Blustag » Sun May 20, 2012 8:07 am

Here in UK first vaccinations are given at 10 weeks with the 2nd at 12 weeks. Pups can then go out one week later. When I was
living in Finland they didnt vaccinate until 12 weeks. I take any puppies that I may be keeping out and about in my arms or in the
car to socialise them rather than waiting until they reach 13 weeks before they can go out. Vaccinating too early can cause problems. I dont need to put them all here but you can google and research.

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by nivenj » Sun May 20, 2012 10:21 am

Blustag wrote:Here in UK first vaccinations are given at 10 weeks with the 2nd at 12 weeks. Pups can then go out one week later. When I was
living in Finland they didnt vaccinate until 12 weeks. I take any puppies that I may be keeping out and about in my arms or in the
car to socialise them rather than waiting until they reach 13 weeks before they can go out. Vaccinating too early can cause problems. I dont need to put them all here but you can google and research.
Interesting. I know 2 different Vets here in Kent where asked at what age to get Finn vaccinated and both said 8 weeks for the first. This also seems to advice from the PDSA.
Most puppies have some temporary immunity from their mothers. This disappears when the puppy is about two months of age. If the puppy has come from kennels or an environment of high risk such as a rescue centre it may have received protective vaccination as early as five weeks. In general puppies should receive their first vaccine at approximately eight weeks of age with a second vaccine at twelve weeks.
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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Rahne » Sun May 20, 2012 10:23 am

In the Netherlands (and also is several other European countries) the 1st set of vaccines are given at 6 weeks of age.

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by TerriHolt » Sun May 20, 2012 11:08 am

nivenj wrote:
Interesting. I know 2 different Vets here in Kent where asked at what age to get Finn vaccinated and both said 8 weeks for the first. This also seems to advice from the PDSA.
My vet did say it should have been done at 7 weeks... they very rarely have people come in for the full set off puppy vaccines. Maybe it differs depending on where you live :?
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by MelB » Sun May 20, 2012 1:10 pm

Just to echo nivenj and TerriHolt, my vets also said 8 weeks for the first. There was a research article in their surgery about them having them 3-4 weeks apart instead of 2 weeks apart too.

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by spidley » Sun May 20, 2012 1:46 pm

Blustag wrote:Here in UK first vaccinations are given at 10 weeks with the 2nd at 12 weeks. Pups can then go out one week later. When I was
living in Finland they didnt vaccinate until 12 weeks. I take any puppies that I may be keeping out and about in my arms or in the
car to socialise them rather than waiting until they reach 13 weeks before they can go out. Vaccinating too early can cause problems. I dont need to put them all here but you can google and research.
I am very new to forum, so I apologise in advance if I offend anyone in any way!! ;)

Having just bought a puppy myself and reading what has been previously written it would appear that the age at when puppies are vaccinated varies greatly between breeders and the vets they use! My vet whom I have used for many years with my horses vaccinates at 8wks, then 10wks. I accept laziness or naivety on my part when buying my puppy as I assumed she would be vaccinated as per my vets advice and that the age at which puppies were vaccinated was uniform across the uk!

This wasn't so and I am happy to pay and not lay blame at the breeder, this time. But I would say this... in a day and age of advanced technology, websites and ever increasing methods of communication, surely it would be best practice for breeders to lay down clearly on their websites/facebook pages at what point they vaccinate/chip and health check their puppies and at what age they let their pups go! I am sure that many of the Tamaskan breeders do this but if all were too then that can only be for the good! In my experience clarity is everything!

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by JulieSmith » Sun May 20, 2012 9:11 pm

TerriHolt wrote:
Rahne wrote:
TerriHolt wrote: Sam didn't come with injections... It was an additional cost of £70 for the full set of vaccines and £35 because i picked him up too early, Jennie didn't get there in time to chip him :oops: :lol:
At what age did you pick him up then??
The usual, 8 weeks... I meant i came too early in the day :oops: ... Jennie did the rest of the litter that day but after i'd been and gone...
I got Saga at 9 weeks and Pete had taken her to the vets for her first injection, and she was microchipped. I think it was more a case of timing than anything else. My vets tend to do the first injection at 8 weeks then 12 weeks. To be honest the microchip part was more of a pain, I still have not got round to changing the details on it as the copy I was given was too faint to photocopy and it will still cost me about £25 to change, so in reality it would have been easier for me to get it done at my own vets, but that's just me now being very organised. I really must sort it :oops:

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Re: Socialization vs Immunization

Post by Nino » Mon May 21, 2012 5:57 pm

Sølve got at 8 and 12 weeks (I think it was 12, maybe it was 10 hmm..) they can though get them at 6, 10 and 14-16 weeks here depending..
the first early shots (before 8 weeks) would be an extra one, but would make it possible to do some more socialization
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