HIPS

All topics pertaining to health and diseases that may affect your Tamaskan Dog, as well as treatment.
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Blustag
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HIPS

Post by Blustag » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:18 pm

Ok this is what everyone worldwide needs to do to get their dog's hips scored by the BVA. Each owner needs to contact the BVA and request a Green Form to be sent direct (posted) to their vet. The BVA will then send out the form along with instructions to the vet on how to proceed. Each dog costs £50 British Sterling. The vet will then xray the dog and send the fee, form and plates direct to the BVA in UK. Turnaround for results is approx 3 weeks.

The BVA website is .... http://www.bva.co.uk/ You can also find information on the Hip Scheme in their pages.

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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:55 pm

Thanks again. I've just sent in a request for a Green Form. I'll let folks know how long it takes to receive it.

BVA Hip scoring scheme website: http://www.bva.co.uk/Hip_Scheme.aspx

BVA Procedures: http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/HD_PN_2011.pdf
Tracy Graziano
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Re: HIPS

Post by TeresaC » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:50 pm

Thanks for the information. We have an appointment for Dylan on Monday for his hips to be xrayed. We are trying to find out if we can get the Green Form sent overnight, by fax or by email to speed up the process.

No one caught that requirement on the website. :cry:
Teresa Cutler
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary

Rahne

Re: HIPS

Post by Rahne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:17 pm

Well you don't have to send the X-Rays right away, they can also be send a week, or more, after they were taken. My vet had send everything about 2 weeks after they took the X-rays..

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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:31 pm

Hawthorne wrote:Thanks again. I've just sent in a request for a Green Form. I'll let folks know how long it takes to receive it.
Make sure that the forms from the BVA are sent to your vet only as they wont send them to private people.

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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:32 pm

TeresaC wrote:Thanks for the information. We have an appointment for Dylan on Monday for his hips to be xrayed. We are trying to find out if we can get the Green Form sent overnight, by fax or by email to speed up the process.

No one caught that requirement on the website. :cry:
No they wont do that they only mail them out to your vet. They also include the procedure for your vet to go through.

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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:33 pm

Rahne wrote:Well you don't have to send the X-Rays right away, they can also be send a week, or more, after they were taken. My vet had send everything about 2 weeks after they took the X-rays..
Dont know why your vet waited to post them. The BVA hip scoring committee sit once a week.

Rahne

Re: HIPS

Post by Rahne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:45 pm

Blustag wrote:
Rahne wrote:Well you don't have to send the X-Rays right away, they can also be send a week, or more, after they were taken. My vet had send everything about 2 weeks after they took the X-rays..
Dont know why your vet waited to post them. The BVA hip scoring committee sit once a week.
Because I didn't know, when I took the X-Rays, were to send them. It took me around 2 weeks to figure out I could send the X-Rays to the BVA and get them scored ;)

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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:13 pm

:oops: I've now submitted a request to this email instead: bvahq@bva.co.uk I've sent them my vet office information so the BVA can send direct to the vet. I just don't know if this is the right email address to submit a request to. All I have is a cell phone, so calling the UK is out of the question at the moment. I might have to try and find a payphone and use a calling card. :lol: :lol:
Rahne wrote:Well you don't have to send the X-Rays right away, they can also be send a week, or more, after they were taken. My vet had send everything about 2 weeks after they took the X-rays..
It clearly states that the green form must be signed prior to the xrays being taken. I don't want this to be done wrong only to have the BVA reject the xrays and have to have a second set of xrays taken. I know this is being ultra-paranoid...but I only want to do this once. For my dog's sake :) Well, okay, and for my pocketbook, too.
Tracy Graziano
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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:17 pm

TeresaC wrote:No one caught that requirement on the website. :cry:
Do you mean at your vet's office? I don't trust the office staff at my vets office, so I looked up the requirements myself to take in...it may be too late for us too, as Freyja's appointment is Tuesday. :roll:
Tracy Graziano
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bark as if no one can hear you
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lick like there's no end to kissing
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Re: HIPS

Post by Tarheel » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:31 pm

I sent an email to the BVA at chs@bva.co.uk on 20 July asking for direction and guidance on how the breeders in the USA can get their Vets to properly x-ray and submit to the BVA. I am still waiting for their reply. I called a dozen Vets in NOrth Carolina and Virginia and it seems they never heard of the BVA.
As soon as I get a reply I will forward it through the USA breeders.
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Re: HIPS

Post by Rahne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:48 pm

I've been mailing with a very nice lady called Sandra from the BVA that gave me all the info I needed so you could try mailing her :)
SandraW@bva.co.uk

Rahne

Re: HIPS

Post by Rahne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:49 pm

Hawthorne wrote:
Rahne wrote:Well you don't have to send the X-Rays right away, they can also be send a week, or more, after they were taken. My vet had send everything about 2 weeks after they took the X-rays..
It clearly states that the green form must be signed prior to the xrays being taken. I don't want this to be done wrong only to have the BVA reject the xrays and have to have a second set of xrays taken. I know this is being ultra-paranoid...but I only want to do this once. For my dog's sake :) Well, okay, and for my pocketbook, too.
Ok, well it wasn't a problem for me..

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Re: HIPS

Post by JoshC » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:58 pm

Rahne wrote:I've been mailing with a very nice lady called Sandra from the BVA that gave me all the info I needed so you could try mailing her :)
SandraW@bva.co.uk
Thanks Rahne for the name and contact info of a person. I sent and email to her and to the general email address.

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Re: HIPS

Post by WhiteElkStag » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:29 pm

Hawthorne wrote::oops: I've now submitted a request to this email instead: bvahq@bva.co.uk I've sent them my vet office information so the BVA can send direct to the vet. I just don't know if this is the right email address to submit a request to. All I have is a cell phone, so calling the UK is out of the question at the moment. I might have to try and find a payphone and use a calling card. :lol: :lol:
Have you tried Skype? The software is free and you can call internationally for pennies. Its how I've been keeping in touch with Kira while I'm living in Germany for the summer.
Ben Premack
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Rhea (Saxon Aquila at White Elk), Sophie (Saxon Canis Venatici at White Elk), and Auri (Blufawn Sunshine on My Shoulders at White Elk)

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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:04 pm

Rahne wrote:
Hawthorne wrote:
Rahne wrote:Well you don't have to send the X-Rays right away, they can also be send a week, or more, after they were taken. My vet had send everything about 2 weeks after they took the X-rays..
It clearly states that the green form must be signed prior to the xrays being taken. I don't want this to be done wrong only to have the BVA reject the xrays and have to have a second set of xrays taken. I know this is being ultra-paranoid...but I only want to do this once. For my dog's sake :) Well, okay, and for my pocketbook, too.
Ok, well it wasn't a problem for me..
I'm hoping this will be the case. :D If you had your dog xrayed and then filled out the Green Form at a later date and sent it all in together I think it'll be okay. :D I'd just rather not cancel her appointment. :(
Tarheel wrote:I sent an email to the BVA at chs@bva.co.uk on 20 July asking for direction and guidance on how the breeders in the USA can get their Vets to properly x-ray and submit to the BVA. I am still waiting for their reply. I called a dozen Vets in NOrth Carolina and Virginia and it seems they never heard of the BVA.
As soon as I get a reply I will forward it through the USA breeders.
Our vet didn't know who the BVA is either. I just don't know if I should cancel the appointment for the xrays or not.
Tracy Graziano
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bark as if no one can hear you
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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:47 pm

Rahne wrote:I've been mailing with a very nice lady called Sandra from the BVA that gave me all the info I needed so you could try mailing her :)
SandraW@bva.co.uk
Yes, thank you. This is very helpful.
Tracy Graziano
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Re: HIPS

Post by TeresaC » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:55 am

Hawthorne wrote:
TeresaC wrote:No one caught that requirement on the website. :cry:
Do you mean at your vet's office? I don't trust the office staff at my vets office, so I looked up the requirements myself to take in...it may be too late for us too, as Freyja's appointment is Tuesday. :roll:
The UW Vet School was aware of the BVA and the BVA scheme, but they had never worked with the BVA or sent X-rays. They did have a lot of information when they called back so I thought they were ready to go...
Teresa Cutler
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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:44 pm

Sorry I made everyone crazy about this. We've been waiting and waiting to do this and this little detail made me a bit nuts. But, thanks to Rahne for providing a contact who replied, and also thanks to Tarheel for forwarding the response so quickly, we now have our answer:

"Thank you for you enquiry. It is very encouraging to hear that you are carrying out health testing.

Blank submission certificates can only be sent out as hard copy to Veterinary Practices – all we need is the Practice name & address.

You can go ahead and get the x-rays done next week, but you should ensure your Vet is familiar with the Scheme’s requirements and care should be taken to ensure that the Certificate is correctly completed when it arrives. The two biggest problems with Certificates completed retrospectively are that the correct date of radiography is recorded in section B and that the owner does not sign their part of the Certificate later that than the Vet.

One other common question we get from overseas owners/breeders is that of payment. This can be done by either a sterling bank draft or debit or credit card. Some people are happy to enclose card details with the submission, others prefer to e-mail them.
As a general rule we ask owners to contact us approx. one week after the submission has been posted so that hopefully it will have arrived by then.

If you have any other questions please do not hesitate to contact me.


Kind regards
Sandra

Sandra Webber
Manager
Canine Health Schemes"


Yay! Freyja's going in in Tuesday!
However, I would encourage all other breeders to request the HD Certificate in advance of going to the vet.
Tracy Graziano
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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:48 pm

This is the email address to mail to for the green form to be sent to your vet
bvahq@bva.co.uk It is a very simple procedure. Mail them..... request form to be sent to your vet wherever they may be. Once your vet receives the form I presume he will tell you and then you go along and have the xray done. Green form is filled in same time and then all is posted off with fee to the BVA. IF your vet hasnt heard of the BVA then you should say The British Veterinary Association and they will know what you mean. The Green form and the xray must be sent together. The microchip number MUST be attached to the xray for identification. The BVA wont accept xrays without the microchip number in place on the xray plate.

I spoke with the BVA yesterday John and they told me that you had mailed them so they have received your mail. I had a lengthy conversation with them and told them I would be putting the relevant info on our forum which I have now done.

The above applies to ALL countries worldwide. Cost is £50 to be paid in British Sterling and can be paid by visa. IF anyone has any queries then please let me know and I can then provide you with the answers.

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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:50 pm

I am pleased to announce that Diesel (Tumanra/Rann) has passed his hips. Well done to Nick with Diesel :D

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Re: HIPS

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:01 pm

Congratulations Nick and Diesel!
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Re: HIPS

Post by Nino » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:29 pm

Congrats :D
>> Nino <<
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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:42 pm

Great news Diesel & Nick! What a relief it must be to know :D
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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:11 pm

As you all probably know Diesel is the only black/grey male from the Tumanra/Raan (sister to Dallas) that can be used at stud. We are just waiting now for his DM results to come back and then it will be all systems go :lol:

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Re: HIPS

Post by AZDehlin » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:45 pm

This is awesome news! I see great things in the near future :)

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Re: HIPS

Post by blufawn » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:56 pm

You know what this means :D :D :D :D Diesel x Winni puppies woohoo
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
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Re: HIPS

Post by AZDehlin » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:57 pm

blufawn wrote:You know what this means :D :D :D :D Diesel x Winni puppies woohoo
I like the sound of that :)

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Re: HIPS

Post by Katlin » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:56 pm

AZDehlin wrote:
blufawn wrote:You know what this means :D :D :D :D Diesel x Winni puppies woohoo
I like the sound of that :)
Oh awesome! I can't wait to see what will happen! Congrats!
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Re: HIPS

Post by TeresaC » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:37 pm

Woohoo :D
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Re: HIPS

Post by Misaya » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:25 pm

Good news, congrats :)
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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:21 pm

Some may be interested in this link

http://leerburg.com/hipart.htm

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Re: HIPS

Post by Katlin » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:38 pm

Very interesting indeed... I feel bad for the pup with this X-ray, 8 month old BB shepherd...
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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:14 pm

Boreal wrote:Very interesting indeed... I feel bad for the pup with this X-ray, 8 month old BB shepherd...
Image
Why would an 8 month old be xrayed? I'm assuming not for hip dysplasia testing--too young.

Speaking of age: does BVA do "preliminary" testing? If not, would it make sense to still wait until age 2 to do Tamaskan Dog hip score xrays--so that the dog is full grown? What are people's thoughts on this? I'm asking because for OFA you have to wait until 2 for final scores, but our male Tamaskans can be bred at 18 months? So we would assume that passing preliminary scores are okay for breeding? I know we don't use OFA any more--just trying to figure this out and how it works with BVA. I see the dog must be 1 year old, but that was it.

So we just had Freyja's hips done, and will wait until what age to have Darwin's hips done (Darwin is a male)? I'm inclined to wait until 2 years of age so the dog is fully grown, but what are other people's opinions? I'm also not inclined to do preliminary testing any more and subject my dog to two rounds of anesthesia (and my pocketbook to two charges). I'd rather wait and just do scoring at 2 years.

On another note, my vet office is having difficulty figuring out the exchange rate for dollars to sterling. :roll: So, other than that the paperwork and xrays are ready to be sent over to London.

And a third note: it took a week and a half to receive the HD Certificate / green card in the mail from London. And that was with a direct request from a particular staff member at the BVA.
Tracy Graziano
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bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
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jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

Rahne

Re: HIPS

Post by Rahne » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:36 pm

BVA and also FCI don't do preliminary scoring. The minimum age for scoring is 12 months for hips. For elbows it will depend on the breed, some larger breeds will have to wait untill 18 months. I have scored both hips and elbows at the same time for Konah at 18 months of age, could have done it sooner but I think this is a nice age and I won't breed before 2 years of age anyways (and if I had a male I would wait untill 18 months before breeding).

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Re: HIPS

Post by Sylvaen » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:34 pm

Hawthorne wrote:Why would an 8 month old be xrayed? I'm assuming not for hip dysplasia testing--too young.
I strongly suspect, in this scenario, that the puppy was already showing physical signs of severe hip dysplasia: difficulty walking, bunny-hopping while running, constantly resting (painful to get up), etc. They probably went to the vet and the vet then scheduled an x-ray, which clearly shows that the pup is chronically crippled. So, yes it was x-rayed to determine hip dysplasia - but not for an official score (for breeding) but for medical reasons: to confirm the diagnosis.
Hawthorne wrote:Speaking of age: does BVA do "preliminary" testing? If not, would it make sense to still wait until age 2 to do Tamaskan Dog hip score xrays--so that the dog is full grown? What are people's thoughts on this? I'm asking because for OFA you have to wait until 2 for final scores, but our male Tamaskans can be bred at 18 months? So we would assume that passing preliminary scores are okay for breeding? I know we don't use OFA any more--just trying to figure this out and how it works with BVA. I see the dog must be 1 year old, but that was it.
No, that's another benefit of the BVA: as long as the dog is 12 months old, it can be officially scored and there's no need for a repeat test. It's up to you if you want to get it done at 12 months, or anytime thereafter: if you want to wait until 18 months, or 24 months, etc. Most breeders get it done ASAP, so that they know if that dog is suitable for breeding... and can make plans / arrangements in advance.
Hawthorne wrote:So we just had Freyja's hips done, and will wait until what age to have Darwin's hips done (Darwin is a male)? I'm inclined to wait until 2 years of age so the dog is fully grown, but what are other people's opinions? I'm also not inclined to do preliminary testing any more and subject my dog to two rounds of anesthesia (and my pocketbook to two charges). I'd rather wait and just do scoring at 2 years.
At 1 year old they are able to make an accurate diagnosis so it is not really necessary to wait until 2 years old. I'm not sure if there would be any difference in waiting an extra year - though, there are different schools of thought on the subject. Some say it's better to get it done sooner, rather than later, others say it's better to wait a bit longer... I'm not sure to what degree (if at all) the hips change from 12-24 months, I would assume that any environmental damage / genetic hip dysplasia should be fully visible by 12 months of age... not sure if waiting until 24 months would give a better score or a worse score, or if it wouldn't make any difference at all.
Hawthorne wrote:On another note, my vet office is having difficulty figuring out the exchange rate for dollars to sterling. :roll: So, other than that the paperwork and xrays are ready to be sent over to London.
Just google the amount: XXX dollars to GBP ;)
Google has all the accurate (and current) exchange rates programmed in on a daily basis... not that it fluctuates too much these days. Current rate (for today) is: 1 U.S. dollar = 0.61406202 British pounds
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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:32 am

Here in the UK all dogs are done anytime after their first birthday and always have been. I get all mine done immed after their birthday so that I know early if they will be ok for breeding. With a male IF you wait until he is past 2 yrs and then get the xray, wait for the result which can sometimes be a couple of months he could then be well on his way to 3yrs old. This may sound fine BUT males that are not 'used' when younger can and sometimes do become infertile. This has happened to me. In the 'old' days :lol: we used to use all our male show dogs at 10 months of age (pre hip xraying days) This was a 'free' service to the first bitch and after he was 'proved' there was a charge. This was the general rule then. Females used to have their first litter at around 18 months of age. Females even then were never bred from after the age of 8yrs (last litter at 8yrs). Males were used until they could no longer produce puppies.

My advice would be to get your dogs hips xrayed as soon after their first birthday as poss. If you are out of the UK then please bear in mind the time delay getting your results back. I generally have to wait for about 8 to 12 weeks. Regarding the postage from UK to USA. My mails over there usually take about a week or more so bear this in mind when requesting the green forms from the BVA ;)

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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:55 pm

Blustag wrote: My advice would be to get your dogs hips xrayed as soon after their first birthday as poss. If you are out of the UK then please bear in mind the time delay getting your results back. I generally have to wait for about 8 to 12 weeks. Regarding the postage from UK to USA. My mails over there usually take about a week or more so bear this in mind when requesting the green forms from the BVA ;)
Sounds good. Thanks, Lynn. I wasn't sure if it would be better to wait because this is a large breed dog and continues to grow. We will have Darwin's hips done rather soon, then--as he will be one year old this October.
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Re: HIPS

Post by Gaby » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:49 pm

A bit late, but nice to hear that Diesels hips are fine! :D Diesel x Winni sounds great!

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Re: HIPS

Post by Hawthorne » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:21 pm

For others overseas doing hips. I would suggest overlooking the process with your vet a little bit. I took the bull by the horns, so to speak, and tried to make sure everything went smoothly. I took in the protocol, provided contact information, and (tried) to make sure they put Freyja's microchip number on the xray. (They forgot the first time, and had to be resubmitted...even though I reminded her and she said it was taken care of.) Anyhow, they had a hang up for a while on how on earth we were going to pay British Stirling. I got tired of waiting (2 weeks), so I emailed Sandra again (poor Sandra, putting up with all my questions). As it turns out you can just email them your credit card information, or include it in the xray submission (duh!)
It did take about a week and a half to get the Green Card, and also it took about 2 weeks for my vets office to receive Freyja's results. The vet office must submit the xrays--they cannot come from an individual. AND the vet office receives the results which is where you must get them from.
Anyhow--clarify with your vet on how you want the xrays mailed. Some idiot in my vets office sent Freyja's xrays International Federal Express overnight. The shipping was as much as her xrays!!! I sent a note around with some of the other USA breeders, and John noted that airmail (USPS) was the cheapest. And Teresa noted that UPS was expensive, but still less than FedEx.
I'm tempted to argue with my vet's office about the shipping costs. Who, in their right mind, would think it was okay to spend $160 on shipping???

Okay, so just our story so hopefully it will help others streamline their process.
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Re: HIPS

Post by Rahne » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:55 pm

Wow, nice vets! :shock:

Mine were actually great, I had already taken the x-rays and paid everything before I decided to have them send over to UK. I mailed the vets and they took care of everything, they send me the submission form to my home so I could sign them and send them back to the vets office. Then they shipped the submission form, my creditcard info and the digital X-rays on CD to the UK and I didn't need to pay anything for this! :D

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Re: HIPS

Post by Booma » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:04 am

Do you have to get hips and elbows done? Does the BVA have to score everyone? There's noone else you can go through?
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Re: HIPS

Post by Rahne » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:52 am

Only hips must be done, and yes only BVA can score them to be accepted.

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Re: HIPS

Post by Booma » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:14 am

If you plan to breed is it a good idea to do elbows too?
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Re: HIPS

Post by Rahne » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:47 am

Kyliedelonge wrote:If you plan to breed is it a good idea to do elbows too?
I think it is, even when it doesn't seem to be a problem in the breed, that's why i've scored both hips and elbows with Konah. But most breeders will only do the hips.

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Re: HIPS

Post by blufawn » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:19 pm

Please if anyone does have elbows done, feel free to send the results in to the TDR, while we dont 'need' this info for you to be able to register pups it is handy to have it on record for future generations of health testing etc
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Re: HIPS

Post by Blustag » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:12 pm

Forgot to post.... both Winnie and Gerri's hips came back as passed for both so well chuffed.

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Re: HIPS

Post by Misaya » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:43 pm

Blustag wrote:Forgot to post.... both Winnie and Gerri's hips came back as passed for both so well chuffed.
Congrats, that is great news :)
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Re: HIPS

Post by claireyclaire » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:09 pm

Fab!
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Re: HIPS

Post by JulieSmith » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:39 pm

Great news

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