DM test for the Tamaskan

All topics pertaining to health and diseases that may affect your Tamaskan Dog, as well as treatment.
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by kendrrat » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:45 am

i agree that there is no rush to smother out all carriers of DM so soon. by breeding with a wider gene pool now we'll have better and healthier choices for breeding down the line. is there some sort of a 5 year plan or something maybe- like within 5 years there is hopes to breed only from "clear" pups? just curious. but yeah, i think for now the goal should be to prevent "sufferers" but still breed from worthy parents even if they are "carriers". hope that makes sense :mrgreen:

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by blufawn » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:46 am

We are working on a 'plan'.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
.............................................................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Wave2Tuffy » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:20 pm

BTW, I got Waves results fairly quick via an email link provided by OFA. It was 7 days from the day I mailed the kit that I was able to access his results online via the link provided by that email. I still have not received the official results via snail mail. According to the link it only took them 48hrs to process the kit once they rec'd it. I am just pointing this out for those of you that submit the DM kit & anxiously await the results....pay attention to that confirmation link when you order the kit! The same link that confirms your order, also confirms shipping, receiving, processing, and results.

I am not happy with Waves results since I thought he would be "clear" :cry: but I was happy to have access to those results promptly!

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Blustag » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:04 pm

Dont forget everyone to send copies of their DM certs to me. Email is fine.
arcticbreeds@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by blufawn » Wed May 11, 2011 12:13 pm

Just had the results back for Blustag Tadewi (Annu) Jackal x Jodie clear for DM :D :D
(he has also just had his hips done and her vets said they look very promising)
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
.............................................................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Misaya » Wed May 11, 2011 12:37 pm

Great news - congrats to Annette :)
- Fiona -

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Rahne

Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Rahne » Wed May 11, 2011 12:57 pm

That's great :D
Has Jodie been tested yet? If you know she is also clear then the pups from that litter wouldn't need to be tested.

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by blufawn » Wed May 11, 2011 1:07 pm

No, Jodie has not been tested yet.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
.............................................................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by claireyclaire » Wed May 11, 2011 8:19 pm

Go Annu, he is so handsome!
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by MoirAran » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:10 pm

A video about a Czech Wolfdog with DM. WARNING: Awful to watch :cry: , but it shows again, why testing for DM is so important. Poor poor dog :cry:

Greetings, Kristel
Aran & Moira & Rayne

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by JulieSmith » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:14 pm

Poor dog I could not watch all of it :cry:

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Katlin » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:23 pm

I watched it all and I must say it is very sad but why would the owners wait for the disease to hit the dog that hard. I mean it looks like it had been suffering for some time, that really bothers me :(
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Vroni » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:36 pm

Thats so much terrible... Poor dog...

But this is the reason because I will never breed with a Tamaskan which is ill! Now I am thinking about breeding with Jack as a carrier... Isn't the risk too high? I do not want only one puppy from Jack with such a future...
I sawed the scale of Rhane: Are you 100% sure that a normal x carrier never can produce at risk dogs? I can not believe this...

:-(
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by mackenziecorcoran » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:47 pm

Vroni wrote: Now I am thinking about breeding with Jack as a carrier... Isn't the risk too high? (

As long as you breed Jack with a female that is clear then you would get approximately 50% clear and 50% carriers.

Rahne

Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Rahne » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:13 am

Vroni wrote:Thats so much terrible... Poor dog...

But this is the reason because I will never breed with a Tamaskan which is ill! Now I am thinking about breeding with Jack as a carrier... Isn't the risk too high? I do not want only one puppy from Jack with such a future...
I sawed the scale of Rhane: Are you 100% sure that a normal x carrier never can produce at risk dogs? I can not believe this...

:-(
Yes this scale is correct. Only Carrier x Carrier / At Risk x Carrier / At Risk x At Risk may produce pups that are At Risk. So there is no need for you to worry, as long as you make sure that Jack is only mated with Clear females then he will not produce At Risk pups ;)

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by HiTenshi16 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:29 am

I couldn't finish the video, was about to cry seeing that poor dog suffer :(
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by mackenziecorcoran » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:34 am

That video was definitely tough to watch. I agree that it does show the importance of avoiding DM in the future breedings.

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:36 am

why was the poor dog allowed to suffer for so long? was it an expreiment facility or something? months and months went past...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by MoirAran » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:56 am

When a dog has DM, it has no pain. DM disiease gives no pain. Maybe that's is why the owners of this dog waited so long to give this dog his peace :cry: The video gives a good idea of how DM developed.

But I would ended the suffering months earlier. Eventho the dog has no pain, what about its dignity? Laying in its own poo? Etc.

I do beleive a dog can be mentally hurt by this kind of living :cry:
Greetings, Kristel
Aran & Moira & Rayne

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:19 am

if we let an animal get like that in the uk, we'd be fined, imprisoned and banned from keeping animals for life...

the video does give a good (horrible) idea of how it develops. at what age (roughly) does it start to show? or is it one of those things that depends on each individual?
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Gaby » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:30 am

Sad video, in my opinion they waited to long. I know they have no pain from the disease itself but they must have pain from wounded knees and legs because he has to drag them over the floor. Or is it so that when a dog has DM they can't feel pain at all?
TerriHolt wrote: the video does give a good (horrible) idea of how it develops. at what age (roughly) does it start to show? or is it one of those things that depends on each individual?
My French is very bad, but I believe this dog was 8. And I thought it depends on each individual, but stress can start an earlier onset. On internet I can find it starts between 6 to 14 years. So that's a range of 8 years, not very easy to draw conclusions. ;)

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Gaby » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:33 am

Oh and I've send Mila's swab away last week, I hope I get the results soon. I'm having my fingers crossed that she is no carrier. Although I'm happy of course that she won't ever get ill, she will be a carrier or free. ;)

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Misaya » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:37 am

TerriHolt wrote:at what age (roughly) does it start to show? or is it one of those things that depends on each individual?
Here is something from the internet re onset:

The disease can present itself as early as 5 years of age in some cases and has been seen in young German Shepherd puppies. The average age of onset is between 9 and 11 years. It is more common in males than females.

I had a look on Wikipedia and this is what is said:

Genetics

Breeding risks for degenerative myelopathy can be calculated using the Punnett Square:
If both parents are clear (N/N) then all of the puppies will be clear
If one parent is a carrier (N/A) and one is clear (N/N) then roughly 50% of the puppies will be clear and 50% will be carriers
If both parents are carriers (N/A) then roughly 25% will be clear (N/N), 50% will be carriers (N/A), and 25% will be affected (A/A)
If one parent is clear (N/N) and one parent is affected (A/A) then all puppies will be carriers (N/A)
If one parent is a carrier (N/A) and one is affected (A/A) then roughly 50% of the puppies will be carriers (N/A) and 50% will be affected (A/A)
If both parents are affected (A/A) then all puppies will be affected (A/A)


The video was terribly sad. He was such a beautiful dog. I dont think I would have waited so long to have him put out of his misery. Even if he wasnt in pain his quality of life must have been very much affected. It is a horrible thing :evil:
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:33 am

thanks, didn't realise there were so many combo's with carriers and non carriers etc...

ok, i was going to order a swab test but... how? do i send an e-mail or am i missing something :oops:
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Nino » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:35 am

Terrible video, even if DM causes no pain that is just SO sad
If they wanted to keep the dog alive why not give him wheels so he could move more freely and have more dignity?

http://pwood33.files.wordpress.com/2010 ... wheels.jpg

poor dog :'(
>> Nino <<
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by MoirAran » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:45 am

There are owners who give their DM dog a wheel chair. Guess it depends on the dog, if they are happy or not having a wheel chair. I know a German Shepherd, who is very happy in a wheel chair. A friend of mine had to put her Saarloos female to sleep recently, only 9 years old. No dog for a wheel chair. They don't have any feeling in their legs behind also, so no pain while dragging their legs on the floor, but still . . . . :cry:

DM is underestimated. Some people still think suffers will not get the disease. Well, sufferers will always develop DM. Starting around 6 till 12 years old. I know of a very young dog , who is also developping DM already.
Female sufferers, who got 1 or more litters, they can develop the disease much earlier
Greetings, Kristel
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Misaya » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:08 am

TerriHolt wrote:thanks, didn't realise there were so many combo's with carriers and non carriers etc...

ok, i was going to order a swab test but... how? do i send an e-mail or am i missing something :oops:
You send for them from the Orthoepedic Foundation for Animals. You need a credit card.

Here is the link: https://secure.offa.org/cart.html
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by mackenziecorcoran » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:26 am

MoirAran wrote: DM is underestimated. Some people still think suffers will not get the disease. Well, sufferers will always develop DM. Starting around 6 till 12 years old. I know of a very young dog , who is also developping DM already.
Female sufferers, who got 1 or more litters, they can develop the disease much earlier

I was under the impression that all dogs that have DM were A/A (sufferers) but not that all A/A (sufferers) actually develop or show signs of DM? I could be wrong but just wanted to get the information out there.

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by blufawn » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:40 pm

This is true. The test does not call them actual 'sufferers' but labels them 'at risk' because they may never develop signs of the disease at all.
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
.............................................................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Blustag » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:42 pm

Thankyou for posting this video on here. It was awful to watch but I watched it through to the end with great sadness as it is very important that we all see what the outcome may be for any sufferers. I think the time has now come to make it mandatory that ALL breeding stock is DM tested. I myself are ploughing through all my dogs to help ensure that we never get this nasty disease in our much loved breed.

Rahne

Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Rahne » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:06 pm

TerriHolt wrote:thanks, didn't realise there were so many combo's with carriers and non carriers etc...

ok, i was going to order a swab test but... how? do i send an e-mail or am i missing something :oops:
Sam doesn't need to get tested as he is clear by parentage. Both Frigga and Odin have tested clear so he is clear too.
MoirAran wrote: DM is underestimated. Some people still think suffers will not get the disease. Well, sufferers will always develop DM. Starting around 6 till 12 years old. I know of a very young dog , who is also developping DM already.
Female sufferers, who got 1 or more litters, they can develop the disease much earlier
Do you have proof of that?? OFA states that there have been dogs who were tested as 'At Risk' and never developed any symptoms. And the 2nd, do you know for a fact there have been females bred being At Risk and developed the disease early? How do you know that they might not have developed the disease anyways?

I don't think anyone is underestimating this disease, but it doesn't need to be blown up either..

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by MoirAran » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:47 pm

I can only speak about wolfdogs. But all wolfdogs tested At Risk, ALL developed the disease for far :cry: Do not know about other breeds tho, like the German Shepherd.

There has an article written by a genetic about DM. I will look if I can find it and scan it.

About females At Risk who had litter(s). I've read that somewhere too and I know several breeders who do not take the risk. Maybe it was the same article, so i will get back at this subject.
Greetings, Kristel
Aran & Moira & Rayne

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by wolfwannabe » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:59 pm

Just watched the video and it broke my heart, what a dreadful disease :cry:

I admit I couldn't have left him like that for so long, as soon as he couldn't stand anymore I would have had him put to sleep, it hurt me to see him dragging his legs around like that :cry:

I think it hurt me so much because it reminded me of my last dog Patch, he didn't have DM (well I don't think so anyway, he was just old 13 years) but that's exactly how his back legs went :cry: all wobbley and couldn't control them, they slowly wasted away :cry: (it was strange, although the vet thought it was arthritis he didn't seem to be in pain, thank god) Patch went on awile like that, then one day he just couldn't stand anymore :cry: so the vet was called (the very next day) and Patch licked her hand and wagged his tail while she gave him the injection and he quietly went to sleep in his bed for the last time :cry: it was his time to leave :cry:

Oh dear! that was a long time ago but I still miss my boy so much he was a beautiful Springer x Old English Sheepdog and so full of life right up to the end :cry:

R.I.P. Patch
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by TerriHolt » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:55 pm

sorry bout your boy, maybe many moons ago but it don't stop you missing them.
Rahne wrote:
TerriHolt wrote:thanks, didn't realise there were so many combo's with carriers and non carriers etc...

ok, i was going to order a swab test but... how? do i send an e-mail or am i missing something :oops:
Sam doesn't need to get tested as he is clear by parentage. Both Frigga and Odin have tested clear so he is clear too.
ohh, good to know, thanks :D ... goes to show how much i know huh :oops: :lol:
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by AZDehlin » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:30 pm

That video is awful :(

I wouldn't of been able to watch a dog suffer like that... I would of had to put him down :(

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Wave2Tuffy » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:11 am

Difficult video to watch, heart breaking :cry:

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Gaby » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:30 pm

Does anybody know how long it takes to get the results from the DM-test? I can follow the progress at the site from OFA and it says that they received the swab 21 June. Do they email them or send them in a letter?

Rahne

Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Rahne » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:37 pm

Gaby wrote:Does anybody know how long it takes to get the results from the DM-test? I can follow the progress at the site from OFA and it says that they received the swab 21 June. Do they email them or send them in a letter?
If I remember right with Konah it took less then a week when they had received the swab before I got the results. They will put it at the link where you can follow the progress. I don't think they send emails or letters.

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Misaya » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:14 pm

Gaby wrote:Does anybody know how long it takes to get the results from the DM-test? I can follow the progress at the site from OFA and it says that they received the swab 21 June. Do they email them or send them in a letter?
I cant quite remember exactly how long it took. I had done the test on 14/02/11 and sent it the next day. I received the results through the post on 16/03/11 with the certificate. They may have been up on the website sooner, I looked a couple of times but couldnt find them though.
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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Wave2Tuffy » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:40 pm

I was able to access Waves results online within 48hrs after they rec'd his sample.

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Gaby » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:13 pm

Hmm, not online yet, although it could be there soon if I read the answers above. Well, just have to wait patiently. ;) Rahne, you didn't receive a letter, did you have to ask for a certificate? Because I would like to have things on paper.

Rahne

Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Rahne » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:35 pm

Gaby wrote:Hmm, not online yet, although it could be there soon if I read the answers above. Well, just have to wait patiently. ;) Rahne, you didn't receive a letter, did you have to ask for a certificate? Because I would like to have things on paper.
The certificate is extended by the OFA (orthopedic foundation for animals) only when a dog is NOT AT RISK. When a dog is tested AT RISK, a letter is send to the owner of the dog.

So you will get a nice certificate for Mila in the post ;)

Rahne

Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Rahne » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:08 pm

From an other forum:
Hello,

Bad news about DM ...
A french breeder of TWH was very surprised as she received the results of the DM test for some puppies from litters born by her :
- Rambo C.W (DM/DM) x Chaddey Spod Dumbiera (N/N) produced a male which is N/N
- Rambo CW (DM/DM) x Bubka de New Flame produced a female which is N/N
- Sibir C.W.(DM/DM) x Bubka de New Flame produced a female which is N/N too

Filiation test were done, it's proved that the parents are the real parents.
Rambo has been tested twice, the 2 times the result was the same : DM/DM, it's the same for the descendants.

A problem was noticed by another breeder : a couple from free TWH produced a female which is carrier (DM/N).
Genetical test were donne too, to prouve that the parents are the real parents, and they are.

What do you think about it? mutation? transmission not only based on a autosomal recessive mode? (that was previously already supposed)
I think we can transpose it to the SWH ... and also we cannot deduce that from 2 parents which are free from DM all the litter will be free too ... maybe in the major part of the cases, but not at 100%
Do you have more infos about the transmission of the DM?

Additional researches are going to be done at the university of Prague:
Contact:
Daniela Čílová
CULS in Prague
smecka13@gmail.com
The French breeder TWH they are talking about is Molly (owner Mas'Khann). She said on the other forum these dogs were tested by Laboklin in Germany. I hope they will have the dogs tested again by OFA to see how the results will turn out then, this is pretty strange :?

To be continued...

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by MoirAran » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:24 pm

Yeah, it is weird :? I've read this on several forums.

Give the different tests from the different labs another result?
Greetings, Kristel
Aran & Moira & Rayne

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Gaby » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:45 pm

:shock: Oh my, I just hope there has been some sort of mistake...

And thank you Rahne for your answer about the certificate. ;)

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by mackenziecorcoran » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:47 pm

I also hope that is a mistake...if it were true then I guess it would mean that all breeding dogs would have to be tested regardless of their parents being cleared.

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by blufawn » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:56 am

Either that or the test is not an accurate one?
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
.............................................................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

Rahne

Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Rahne » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:02 am

I'm not sure if the test that Laboklin uses is any different then the one from OFA. That's why I hope the dogs will get tested again trough OFA, they have the test from the University of Missouri who were the ones who discovered the mutation and developed the DNA test in the first place.

If the results from OFA are any different then it might mean that Laboklin isn't accurate.

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Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by blufawn » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:10 am

But then what would make us so sure that the OFA test is accurate and its not the Laboklin that is right, or they are both bad tests.
We had this problem with eye testing in one of our breeds, the same dog could have several tests and all of the scores could be different, in the end they stopped testing for it, because the test was rubbish
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
.............................................................
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

Rahne

Re: DM test for the Tamaskan

Post by Rahne » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:18 am

Well you're right that we can't be 100% sure. But if the scores from OFA makes sense (so the dogs from DM/DM x N/N come back as DM/N) then I will assume that the Laboklin testing isn't accurate. It makes more sense that a dog that is At Risk bred to a Clear dog will only produce Carriers and not Clear dogs..

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