Raw feeders - puppy question

All topics pertaining to the diet of your Tamaskan Dog (raw food vs. kibble, supplements, etc).
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kellydejean
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Raw feeders - puppy question

Post by kellydejean » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:22 am

Hello guys!

So I am swapping my current furball to a raw diet and figured I would start the puppy off that way, or in reality probably swap it after it settles into its new home with me. My question is how much would you feed a puppy tam. I've read a lot of different numbers, but most generally go off of the adult weight. I figured because of the tams pickyness there would be a bigger number of y'all who feed raw and have fed tam puppies a raw diet. so . . .

1. For male or female (since we don't have it yet - sooo sooon :D ) what would you start off with at 8-9 weeks.
2. Would you increase the diet as they age? at which points (age or weight)? Or would you just manage and keep them at a general healthy look?
3. Should the puppy get more/less meaty bone, organs muscle meat etc vs an adult?

Any help you guys could offer would be amazing; I've been doing research on it for about a year now after my vet recommended it for the other furball but wanted to wait to make the swap until after the move. Alaska is also very raw diet friendly so I figured it was time to stop waiting to take the plunge because more vets are behind it and it is easier and cheeper to get the food.

Thanks again!! :)

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Thessa
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Re: Raw feeders - puppy question

Post by Thessa » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:15 pm

You feed a puppy about 5-10% of it's body weight, I would start around 8%.
As your pup grows older you feed a lower percentage but because the body weight increases you'll feed more in weight. However, just as with adult dogs, it's most important to look at how your dog is doing and feed more or less depending on wether you see their ribs or can't feel them anymore.
And a pup can eat te same as an adult dog but you feed softer bones like necks and carcasses from small animals.

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Re: Raw feeders - puppy question

Post by TerriHolt » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:57 pm

People usually start pups on 10% of body weight but i'd also start at 8%. When they reach adult, 2% if your dog is over weight,
2.5% - 3% to maintain present weight...

I found this helpful to get the right %-kg weight...
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There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

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Re: Raw feeders - puppy question

Post by Katlin » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:07 am

No no! 8% is WAY too much, you start at 5% and no more than that otherwise you'll be giving way too much calcium and protein. Honestly, I suggest doing 50/50 raw - kibble. Kibble in am or pm and raw the other meal. 100% raw for a puppy is very hard on them and they don't get all the vitamins and minerals that they get from puppy kibble that is needed for a growing diet. I feed TOTW and I can think of three other Tam breeders that feed the same, I strongly suggest doing that instead.

Wylie is 76lbs at 9 months, he gets 2 raw patties (1lb) in the morning with 1 omega pill, in the evening he gets 1 3/4 cups TOTW with 3 tablespoons of yogurt and 1 omega pill and he looks fantastic with super nice fur, rock poops, and white teeth.
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Thessa
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Re: Raw feeders - puppy question

Post by Thessa » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:01 pm

Katlin wrote:No no! 8% is WAY too much, you start at 5% and no more than that otherwise you'll be giving way too much calcium and protein. Honestly, I suggest doing 50/50 raw - kibble. Kibble in am or pm and raw the other meal. 100% raw for a puppy is very hard on them and they don't get all the vitamins and minerals that they get from puppy kibble that is needed for a growing diet. I feed TOTW and I can think of three other Tam breeders that feed the same, I strongly suggest doing that instead.

Wylie is 76lbs at 9 months, he gets 2 raw patties (1lb) in the morning with 1 omega pill, in the evening he gets 1 3/4 cups TOTW with 3 tablespoons of yogurt and 1 omega pill and he looks fantastic with super nice fur, rock poops, and white teeth.
I know breeders who raise their pups on raw only (and yes, 5-10%). Which is better will always be a point of discussion.

I personally don't see the point of feeding kibble (except for dogs/cats who can't digest raw, like our Luna), it's heated so al the natural vitamins are destroyed and added in a synthetical form. When you feed at least 4 species of prey you feed al the vitamins a dog needs since every specie has different amounts of vitamins is it's meat.

I am whith you that 5% will be enough when you feed raw and kibble. But raw contains 60-70% moisture and kibble only 10% or so, so you have to feed more raw than kibble in weight.

And calcium binds whith fosfor so it doesn't matter how much you feed but wheter you feed in good proporions. Because when you feed more you'll feed more calcium and more fosfor.

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Re: Raw feeders - puppy question

Post by iamnic » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:18 pm

I fed about 8% of their adult body weight over the course of 3-4 meals/day at 9 weeks. By 7 months old, we were down to 2 meals a day and eyeballing the portions based on how the pups looked. My girls are now just over 1.5 yrs and are down to 1 large, difficult meal/day. If it's something easy, like chicken quarters, we'll feed them 2x/day. If we had to put a number on it, we currently feed closer to 3% of their adult weight. Our rule of thumb is to just watch their ribs and hips.

Ratios will be the same as a puppy and as an adult. We use the 80-10-10 model (80 meat, 10 EDIBLE bone, 10 organs (3-5% which is liver)). This isn't a "per meal" or daily requirement, but rather what we aim to feed "over time". We also supplement with a fish oil tablet and multi-vitamin every day. Too much meat, you might get runny stool, too much bone, you might get hard, white, crumbly fossil poop. You'll learn what your dogs' preferences are.

Puppies tend to have an easier time taking to raw, so you can start adding a variety of meats sooner than you would with a dog who has been kibble fed for a long period of time. If you're using grocery store bought meat, read the labels and make sure the meat isn't enhanced (causes diarrhea in most dogs). Also, I've found that some meats settle better with my tams than others. They do beautifully on chicken, beef, lamb, duck, rabbit... but pork doesn't sit well.

One other thing, I've found the Raw Feeding fb group to be a great resource for questions. I've even sourced free lamb from a farmer through them!

Good luck!

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Re: Raw feeders - puppy question

Post by kellydejean » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:26 am

I went a little sideways and never made it back to this post.

First, thank you all for your help. :)
iamnic, we seem to be very close to that pat and I joined a few facebook groups as we got into it a little more - def a great resource, so thanks for that tip.
Also, thanks TerriHolt for the link. It was helpful when trying to get my bearings.
And Katlin - thank you to you as well. Clara loves yogurt and we give fish oil now that she's older (we just fed fish when she was younger) and it is always good to know what everyone is doing. We considered half and half for a little while and your comment on amounts gave us a place to start if we would have gone that route.

Thessa, if you see this. I am totally won over by raw and have been talking to a few breeders about weening their pups on raw. You mentioned that you know breeders who have fed the pups raw - any of them Tam breeders (I know/talked to one in OR that does, don't know her user name on here)? If Clara passes all of her test and everything goes as planned we will be having pups some day when she's a big girl, so I have started to research into that area of raw as I have seen such a difference in her from other pups I've raised and I've seen a complete 180 in my oldest that I swapped when we got her moved up here (a few weeks after I picked up Clara. If 7 months on raw could change her this much i'm sold enough to do my homework and would love to talk to breeders who are experience in feeding raw to get some insight and hands on info from their experiences (since every litter, breed, and food is different)


Rundown:

Now a little over 7 months later our little girl, Clara is doing amazing on all raw. I'm sure it had to do with the litter as well, but she is the healthiest pup I've ever had. She has had no growth spurts and has always stayed well proportioned - almost seemed like we just woke up one day and she was huge.

Incase anyone goes back to this we fed 2-4% of her expected adult weight from the start and guestimated at about 70-75 lbs (I know that is big, but I figured with our winters offering the larger amount would just help her to self regulate). She self regulated and ate more or less based of what she seemed to need. We did 3-4 meals a day until about 4 months, then 2-3 meals a day until 6 months. Now we offer 2, but she will choose to eat 1-2 a day. (for the record we also do training session so usually with a day out or a class is when we sill only eat once a day; I think that is also why she would refuse a meal when she was younger as well. :)

She also eats a little bit of everything (all local, grass fed/free range, etc).... she has has chicken, duck, pork, beef, caribou (or reindeer - same thing), moose, ptarmigan, cornish hen, turkey, salmon, rabbit... quite the little explorer. Not one thing has caused her the slightest bit of tummy upsets - she has an iron gut that any fluffball would envy.

Now that she filled out (60 esk lbs) I noticed her any my other girl are eating about 3% sometimes a little more. I can add back in the summer but I think it is because of how cold it is here (-40 average winter). They also love broth and eggs more when it is cold out.

We generally feed more along the lines of whole prey, but sometimes we do feed ground or mis-match parts so that they get more variety. As I would rather feed ground moose from a hunt this past season than feed chicken that came from the grocery.

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Re: Raw feeders - puppy question

Post by Thessa » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:37 am

kellydejean wrote:Thessa, if you see this. I am totally won over by raw and have been talking to a few breeders about weening their pups on raw. You mentioned that you know breeders who have fed the pups raw - any of them Tam breeders (I know/talked to one in OR that does, don't know her user name on here)? If Clara passes all of her test and everything goes as planned we will be having pups some day when she's a big girl, so I have started to research into that area of raw as I have seen such a difference in her from other pups I've raised and I've seen a complete 180 in my oldest that I swapped when we got her moved up here (a few weeks after I picked up Clara. If 7 months on raw could change her this much i'm sold enough to do my homework and would love to talk to breeders who are experience in feeding raw to get some insight and hands on info from their experiences (since every litter, breed, and food is different)
No, the breeders I was talking about aren't Tam breeders, I follow(ed) their litters on a Dutch barf-forum.
There are a few things you have to change when a dog is pregnant/nursing which are listed on that forum (I could translate it if you'd like?) and Ian Billinghurst also wrote a book "Grow your pups with bones" which is said to be very useful and informative.

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