The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

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firleymj
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Re: The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

Post by firleymj » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:46 am

Wow, thanks for the article, and the thought it provoked.
(I'm too new to take a "stand" on the styles of training - I know only enough to know that I need to learn more. But it is kind of strange that many of the things that make for successful human leadership

* out-thinking the pack,
* knowing when to fight and when not to fight -
* sparing your resources where possible,
* knowing your self and your adversary (by extension, any non-self),
* principled leadership,
* making sure you provide for the needs and wants and (possible aspirations) of your subordinates
* consistency when it's appropriate,
* allowing for variation within limits
* the flexibility to react in various unplanned situations.

also contribute so much to successful human-canine interaction.

I'm not one of those folks who pretends that our dear friends are just immature people in fur suits (a friend did that with a terrier and the dog is an emotional train wreck) but I do admit that they're smarter and better judges of our character than we might otherwise admit.

I'm glad I'm studying BEFORE the final - called arrival of puppy.

THANKS for provoking thought - and the implied support of those just beginning to navigate the waters of this very special bloodline.
My goal in life is to be as good of a person as my dog already thinks I am. ~Author Unknown
The greatest love is a mother's; then a dog's; then a sweetheart's. ~Polish Proverb

The human of Ch.(ARBA) and Ch.(KCUSA) Hawthorne James Watson (call name Kona)

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Re: The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

Post by Whiltierna » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:11 am

I learned dog behavior best through patience.
It could take five minutes or more for a dog I'd walk/train to realize I'm not opening the door for a walk until they sit. Once they are done nosing the door, running all over the house hurriedly, and jumping, they usually give the "what do I have to do?" look with their tail held still straight out. Then I give the sit command, however their owner trained them. They sit. I put my hand on the door knob, they take off again. Repeat until I have the door open and me passed through before the dog.
If you are impatient, then no one wins: you don't get a submissive dog on the walk, the dog didn't know what you wanted, and you'll get the same dance next time.
While I wait, make my grocery list in my head, pretend I'm a Disney princess, or plan the walk route.
Patience.

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Re: The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:45 am

Whiltierna wrote:I learned dog behavior best through patience.
It could take five minutes or more for a dog I'd walk/train to realize I'm not opening the door for a walk until they sit. Once they are done nosing the door, running all over the house hurriedly, and jumping, they usually give the "what do I have to do?" look with their tail held still straight out. Then I give the sit command, however their owner trained them. They sit. I put my hand on the door knob, they take off again. Repeat until I have the door open and me passed through before the dog.
If you are impatient, then no one wins: you don't get a submissive dog on the walk, the dog didn't know what you wanted, and you'll get the same dance next time.
While I wait, make my grocery list in my head, pretend I'm a Disney princess, or plan the walk route.
Patience.
Good post. I agree patience is another "secret" to successful dog training. :) Sometimes, depending on the dog, it helps to wait until the dog is calm, put on the leash and then let them fly out the door...but take off in the opposite direction. I worked with an extremely stubborn staffie one time - no amount of patience worked trying to get him to just sit at the door. Instead of waiting for him to calm down, I just let him take off out the door and then I literally had to run in the opposite direction (I had space) and when the leash was taut, he had the "OMG what just happened?" look. He came back inside after me and we tried again for him to sit politely before exiting - took another 15 minutes, but better than us waiting another 45min. lol! I love working with stubborn, confident dogs...nothing phases them and they bounce right back. Their stubbornness helps during training - they're motivated. Not to be confused with independence and an overall "whatever" attitude. ;)

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Re: The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

Post by Whiltierna » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:23 pm

arianwenarie wrote:
Whiltierna wrote:I learned dog behavior best through patience.
It could take five minutes or more for a dog I'd walk/train to realize I'm not opening the door for a walk until they sit. Once they are done nosing the door, running all over the house hurriedly, and jumping, they usually give the "what do I have to do?" look with their tail held still straight out. Then I give the sit command, however their owner trained them. They sit. I put my hand on the door knob, they take off again. Repeat until I have the door open and me passed through before the dog.
If you are impatient, then no one wins: you don't get a submissive dog on the walk, the dog didn't know what you wanted, and you'll get the same dance next time.
While I wait, make my grocery list in my head, pretend I'm a Disney princess, or plan the walk route.
Patience.
Good post. I agree patience is another "secret" to successful dog training. :) Sometimes, depending on the dog, it helps to wait until the dog is calm, put on the leash and then let them fly out the door...but take off in the opposite direction. I worked with an extremely stubborn staffie one time - no amount of patience worked trying to get him to just sit at the door. Instead of waiting for him to calm down, I just let him take off out the door and then I literally had to run in the opposite direction (I had space) and when the leash was taut, he had the "OMG what just happened?" look. He came back inside after me and we tried again for him to sit politely before exiting - took another 15 minutes, but better than us waiting another 45min. lol! I love working with stubborn, confident dogs...nothing phases them and they bounce right back. Their stubbornness helps during training - they're motivated. Not to be confused with independence and an overall "whatever" attitude. ;)

Teehee, so true!
Some are submissive during a role once they realize they aren't doing it right!

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Re: The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

Post by arianwenarie » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:26 pm

I also think it's important to consider the dog's health when you're asking them to perform certain commands - if a dog has trouble sitting, I def won't make them sit. Just have them waiting politely is good enough. If it's freezing outside or raining, I wouldn't ask my dog to sit either. ;) I do know a few people who are so hell-bent on following "the rules" of dog training that they forget to be considerate of their dogs. Truthfully speaking, I used to be like that...

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