Kayo Inu

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Re: Kayo Inu

Post by Blustag » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:10 pm

I certainly wouldnt want to use Sora as piedbald is directly behind her and there is no way I would wish to bring that colour to our
breed :roll:

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Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Hiwatari » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:16 am

It was brought to my attention that in a FB group, some people are asking Shelly about the Kayo Inu Breed. First, she is not a breeder, she is someone who would like to be a breeder and learn more about breeding. She however is not an approved breeder at this time (no one knows what may happen down the road). With that said, she should not be the one answer questions about the breed. She can answer where her dogs came from and about her puppies being used in the breed. But she does not have all the answer for the breed.

Now the big question my puppy owner has said; was being asked. Is if they are approved Tamaskan crosses. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows this answer and could have easily giving it. That answer would be a "No". None of the dog within the Kayo Inu Breed are TDR Tamaskan's. So why would a cross be an approved Tamaskan cross? I have said, I am more then willing to let the TDR use a male as a stud if asked and the Dam is approved, along with the cross. But the Kayo Inu breed has nothing to do with Tamaskan. We do not list our puppies as Tamaskan's or Tamaskan crosses. A few TDR lines are in some of our dogs. But that is it and all that will be in them. As we are keeping away from adding more Tamaskan, NAID, NAVD, GSD, Malamute, and Huskies into our lines (for now, down the road maybe, but not at all right now).

So if anyone has any questions, please ask me or go on the web page and us the contact us button. 9 out of 10 times I will be the one answering. But you may get someone else?

www.KayoInu.com

Thank you

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Katlin » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:05 am

Why are you doing a testimonial contest? I thought you said that when Kevin did his it was unethical...sorry that just irked me...Also why is this here? Am I just being paranoid or shouldn't this just be on your facebook page...
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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by balto13 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:00 am

Katlin wrote:Why are you doing a testimonial contest? I thought you said that when Kevin did his it was unethical...sorry that just irked me...Also why is this here? Am I just being paranoid or shouldn't this just be on your facebook page...
No Katlin you're not being paranoid (or maybe we both are :lol: ) because I agree, this seems like a personal message for a personal facebook page or on the kayu inu page. But, I will admit I don't understand/know the situation nor the person you're talking about Hiwatari.

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Booma » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:38 am

FYI, there are quite a few spelling errors on your page.
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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Nimwey » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:47 pm

First, I thought, "Oh, a Japanese breed I haven't heard of?", then I think (and I'm sorry, but it has to be said) - "no, not another one".

We already have the Northern Inuit, (British) Utonagan, Tamaskan, Aatu Tamaskan, British Wolfdog, British Timber Dog, British Inuit, Anglo Wulfdog... do we really need more wolfalike breeds? Why not try to improve those that are already there? :)
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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Gaby » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:19 pm

I like the looks of the dogs, but what bothers me very much, is that only Ula is health tested, but only elbows and hips. The rest of the foundation dogs are not tested at all? :? I do not have a good feeling about that especially since they produced a few litters already.

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Katlin » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:24 pm

Gaby wrote:I like the looks of the dogs, but what bothers me very much, is that only Ula is health tested, but only elbows and hips. The rest of the foundation dogs are not tested at all? :? I do not have a good feeling about that especially since they produced a few litters already.
Not only that but some of the parents aren't verified for some of the litters. Sorry Joy but I've got nothing good to say about this breed besides they are cute... :?
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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Gaby » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:32 pm

Hmm, this is also on the website: "Maintain the best possible standards of health, cleanliness, safety and care of their dogs." And I take a look around at the website and no dog is properly health tested, like I wrote before. Why aren't they tested if that is in the Code of Ethics?

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by HiTenshi16 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:45 pm

Nimwey wrote:First, I thought, "Oh, a Japanese breed I haven't heard of?", then I think (and I'm sorry, but it has to be said) - "no, not another one".

We already have the Northern Inuit, (British) Utonagan, Tamaskan, Aatu Tamaskan, British Wolfdog, British Timber Dog, British Inuit, Anglo Wulfdog... do we really need more wolfalike breeds? Why not try to improve those that are already there? :)
Aatu Tamaskan and Tamaskans are the same, but now that the TBA as rejoined the TDR, I'm sure they will just go back to calling them Tamaskans ;)

Along with the concerns with the others, what also bothers be about the 'Kayo Inu' "breed" is when I heard of some dogs were going to be trained for police work (like attack dogs I believe), but I could be (and do hope) I am wrong about this. What bothers me about that idea is a wolf look alike breed getting a bad rep like German Shepherds for being attack guard dogs. I would not want my dogs confused with dogs like that.
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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:42 am

HiTenshi16 wrote:
Nimwey wrote:First, I thought, "Oh, a Japanese breed I haven't heard of?", then I think (and I'm sorry, but it has to be said) - "no, not another one".

We already have the Northern Inuit, (British) Utonagan, Tamaskan, Aatu Tamaskan, British Wolfdog, British Timber Dog, British Inuit, Anglo Wulfdog... do we really need more wolfalike breeds? Why not try to improve those that are already there? :)
Aatu Tamaskan and Tamaskans are the same, but now that the TBA as rejoined the TDR, I'm sure they will just go back to calling them Tamaskans ;)

Along with the concerns with the others, what also bothers be about the 'Kayo Inu' "breed" is when I heard of some dogs were going to be trained for police work (like attack dogs I believe), but I could be (and do hope) I am wrong about this. What bothers me about that idea is a wolf look alike breed getting a bad rep like German Shepherds for being attack guard dogs. I would not want my dogs confused with dogs like that.
Yes, GSD's do have a bad rep for been guard dogs and it's a misconception IMO... My girl was protective of me, but she was a rescue and had a bad first 4 years...

My daughters friend at school, her parents got a GSD to 'guard' the home but after all the training they put her through, she was still too soft and welcomed strangers into the home so they are now rehoming her (my daughters friend is devastated and said she is leaving home with the dog)... no doubt to replace her with a rottie or staffie (or some other image improving dog) to 'train' to 'guard' the house :roll: ( <--- i can't insert enough of these)... GET A FREAKING BURGLAR ALARM PEOPLE!
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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Hiwatari » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:41 am

Ok I know I'm not going to hit everything asked as I'm to tired to remember it all and to lazy at the moment to look at each thing. This was put here to cover the fact that Shelly should not be asked by people on a "Tamaskan" group about the breed.

Yes we are going for a working dog, you guys have listened more then enough companion pets, bred without a job.

There have been two litter. The first being from a Dam we got and it happened to have already been mated without the breeder knowing before they sent it. We are testing the puppies, but are waiting for the two many sire's DNA sample to come back before sending them off to be tested. The second litter was duo to someone braking into the breeders home when they were gone and letting their Dam out. The male was not old enough at the time for testing. All puppy owners know all information for the litters.

The listed dogs for foundation are dogs planned to be added, and are waiting test.
Kylievr wrote:FYI, there are quite a few spelling errors on your page.
Thank you I will get someone to look it over.

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Katlin » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:04 am

Doesn't sound like a very ethical start to me.

We have listened more than enough....what does that mean?? :?
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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Rahne » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:27 am

Hiwatari wrote:Yes we are going for a working dog, you guys have listened more then enough companion pets, bred without a job.
There's also a great 'wolfy-looking' working dog in existence, it's called the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog!!!!!!!! So no need for these Kayo Inus...

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by weylyn » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:42 am

For many breed there is no need for so......Not gonna say anything about that because myself owns two of a breed where was no need for ;)

But my most important concern is health. Many people in many breeds are in my opinion not open enough about it and scared ( That last feeling I see and hear allot from people that meet for the first time my own openness about it. Later on when they learned they rather happy they know...) ....I do think that that attitude brings a way of thinking in the public and it scares the hell out of me to see an other breeder that doesn't do health tests asp( looked several times on the site and there was plenty time to do the tests already even after an accidental mating!) and is not open about what is further also in the lines ( people do not have to ask, it is an obligation of a good breeder to tell that all in front in my opinion).....Maybe it is just me but to be open about all and everything is in my eyes the only way to make the best choices for a dog, the best mate and their offspring no matter how you want to call them or what ever.........

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Karen » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:29 pm

"no need for this breed"... Hmmm... In that case we can stop breeding hundreds of pedigree and non-pedigree breeds. Including the tamaskan imo.

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Rahne » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:36 pm

Karen wrote:"no need for this breed"... Hmmm... In that case we can stop breeding hundreds of pedigree and non-pedigree breeds. Including the tamaskan imo.
Indeed ;)
Maybe I should have put a smiley behind my comment as it was meant sarcastic lol

Seems Joy thinks there are enough 'wolfy-looking' dogs without a purpose so we now NEED a 'wolfy-looking' dog with a purpose, which the Kayo Inu will fulfill. So that's why I put that there are already 'wolfy-looking' dogs that are bred specifically for 'work', not just companion.

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:00 pm

Hiwatari wrote:We are testing the puppies, but are waiting for the two many sire's DNA sample to come back before sending them off to be tested.
Time out...
ONE YEAR ago you said the puppies were being DNA profiled for parentage analysis... and now you say you're still waiting for the two sires' DNA samples to come back?! Can you explain how this is possibly taking so long?! The sires COULD have been DNA profiled before the pups were even born, or soon after birth, and the pups then DNA profiled before going to their new homes. Sounds like a whole lot of talk to me, with no action whatsoever.

Actions speak louder than words... and yet here we are, over a year after the birth of the first accidental litter and nothing (in terms of health testing) has been accomplished. ALL the dogs (breeding dogs AND offspring) COULD (and should) have been FULLY health tested by now. How do you expect to be taken seriously as reputable / ethical breeders?

Sun Apr 15, 2012:
Hiwatari wrote:
Sylvaen wrote:
Hiwatari wrote:We know who could be the father. We're waiting on the DNA test to come back to know who it really is. We can guess by how the litter looks that it was Chuck. But I'm not putting a guess there to maybe have to change it. So once their DNA test are in, the sire will be put down.
You took DNA samples from all the puppies, right? Some of the pups could have one sire, the rest could have another sire...
That's why each individual puppy needs to be DNA profiled to verify parentage.
Yes I took one for each puppy, but the DNA place said to only do one of the males and if they all don't go to that one they will send for another male sample.
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Re: Kayo Inu Breed

Post by Hiwatari » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:58 pm

Well that is easy to answer. The breeder who had the dogs, homed them. I've sent DNA kits to both dogs in question 2x already and I'm still waiting for them back. I'm re-sending kits once I get another set of new ones in. I do not own the maybe sires of the litter. I also can not up and make a long trip to find and get the DNA samples myself, with the dogs I have to care for and the lack of trust I have in my family to do the right care. I have puppy sample's, and the Dam's, I'm waiting on the males. But as it has already been so long, I have sent kits out to puppy owners to take new samples once I get in the males. So I have to wait for them to get the samples and send them to me. As I'm sure your not saying you can randomly just pick up and drive about 2900 miles to get two DNA samples. But I am planning to do the crazy drive if the 3rd sent out kit doesn't return. But again I'm planning. I can't just up and leave on a whim to get sample. I need someone to care for my dogs (that I don't bring with me). I need gas money, and back up money in case something happens on a long trip, on top of a car I would trust driving something like that.

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Re: Kayo Inu

Post by weylyn » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:25 pm

Okee I am really confused here.......You have the DNA of the puppy's....you have the DNA of the Dams......There where only two litters born yet........and the litters where accidental BUT you don't' have the DNA of the two Sire's who I assume must live in the neighborhoods or even in the same house as the Dam's........so in my mind are from the same owner as of the dam in any of these two cases.......
Okee My mind just getting weird here I think......You see what I see and why I just can't believe it quit??
Just hope you can explain that to me....
Hiwatari wrote: There have been two litter. The first being from a Dam we got and it happened to have already been mated without the breeder knowing before they sent it. We are testing the puppies, but are waiting for the two many sire's DNA sample to come back before sending them off to be tested. The second litter was duo to someone braking into the breeders home when they were gone and letting their Dam out. The male was not old enough at the time for testing. All puppy owners know all information for the litters.

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Re: Kayo Inu

Post by Hiwatari » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:43 pm

There is only one litter in question of who the sire is. Sora came down to me without the breeder knowing she had mated. The breeder re-homed all of their dogs. The two maybe sires where re-homed long before I even knew Sora was carrying puppies. I got all of the puppies samples before they left me and I have Sora (still do). I do not have the two maybe Sires. I am waiting for their owners to send samples back. One is in OH, the other is in ME, and I live in GA.

The other litter, the owner has both dam and sire. We know the parents of that litter and they are listed.

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Re: Kayo Inu

Post by weylyn » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:44 pm

Hiwatari wrote:There is only one litter in question of who the sire is. Sora came down to me without the breeder knowing she had mated. The breeder re-homed all of their dogs. The two maybe sires where re-homed long before I even knew Sora was carrying puppies. I got all of the puppies samples before they left me and I have Sora (still do). I do not have the two maybe Sires. I am waiting for their owners to send samples back. One is in OH, the other is in ME, and I live in GA.

The other litter, the owner has both dam and sire. We know the parents of that litter and they are listed.
Okee now I understand :) Thank you for explaining because as it was stated you can think why my mind was getting weird.....
Is Sora tested yet on things? (In this case I can see that you have no control over the male)
And the parents of the other litter?

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Re: Kayo Inu

Post by Hiwatari » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:28 pm

Sora has not been OFA yet but I will be getting them sometime next month, as she turned two not that long ago. I have however gotten her hips checked not to long ago to see if I should do OFA or just get her spayed. They look great. So I am moving forward with getting her OFA's done (I wish my vet did digitalis so I could share her x-ray :( Only down side to them).

The other two, Ula is hip and elbow tested, she is already been removed from breeding however with her puppies all being fixed as it has come to light two of her litter mates have had epilepsy. Diesel the Sire of the litter is Sora's litter mate. I do not know when they will be testing him yet.

FYI Rin has also been removed from breeding do to the two litter mates in Ula litter having epilepsy (they share the same Sire) and a dog in her Dam's side, had to be put down for the same reason (this just came into light the other day). Rin is planned to be spayed next month (long before she goes back into heat as she just went out of it).

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Re: Kayo Inu

Post by weylyn » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:03 pm

Are you going to do more test on the ones you want to use for breeding besides the hips?

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Re: Kayo Inu

Post by Hiwatari » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:24 pm

Hips, elbows, DM, and DNA profile are the minimum test before planning a litter. Sadly I'm sure everyone knows things do not always go as planned. That is why even with out testing dogs we plans to use, are listed, as unplanned things happen, unplanned or not; I still see the puppies are put of the breed. Live and learn.

If there was a test for epilepsy, that would be in there to and I hope one day there will be. I have dealt with it and I would never wish that on anyone. That is why the moment I found out both of Rin's parent have had puppies with it, all thoughts of using her stopped and everyone wanting a puppy from her was told of this (I do not take deposits unless their mated and I know how many puppies). I feel bad for the person who has waiting almost two years for a Rin puppy, but I would feel worst if that puppy ended up with this.

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Kayo Inu Breed?

Post by JenTehLuv » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:06 am

Um, I'm relatively new to the Tamaskan breed and I know there are possible outcrosses that are wanted/needed and while looking at other breeds to hopefully make a suggestion I stumbled upon this http://www.kayoinu.com/index.html

Isn't that just a tamaskan being used and being called a different breed? Again I'm new so I don't know if this has come up in conversation before but it seems to me that's trying to be a tamaskan while claiming to be a different breed.
This is a club set up to track and give general information on a breed in the works. The Kayo Inu is a wolf looking breed, with no recent wolf in it. We are aiming to have health the top goal. They are a rare breed for a reason. We are having every dog within the breed DNA profiled for trackability. At the moment, NO dog will fit the breed standard as there will be out crosses to help the health of our dogs.


Can someone please clarify this for me? lol

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Re: Kayo Inu Breed?

Post by Cornelia1986 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:26 am

Just take a look: http://www.tamaskan-forum.com/viewtopic ... t=Kayo+Inu :D
This may answer some of your questions ;)
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