New outcrosses?

Post by **Nino** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:20 pm

TerriHolt wrote:I kinda think that it would be the equivalent of crossing a Tam x GSD and saying "hey presto... A tam with new blood!"... When in fact it would be a Tamaskan X .... It's the way lynn did it because she was rushing the breed (and she wouldn't have been able to sell X's for the full price)... Nothing good can ever come of rushing things...

Just personal opinion...

I agree with you fully.. Lynn totally rushed into it..

Mylingen · Post by **Mylingen** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:21 pm

Nino wrote: I agree with you fully.. Lynn totally rushed into it..

Ka-ching!

wen · Post by **wen** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:36 pm

that's why I wasn't understanding how Winni's only pup, could be registered as a tamaskan, when his own mother was in fact a cross between a tam and a Groenland dog.

Post by **Nino** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:43 pm

wen wrote:that's why I wasn't understanding how Winni's only pup, could be registered as a tamaskan, when his own mother was in fact a cross between a tam and a Groenland dog.

not a Groenland dog.. a Canadian Eskimo Dog

wen · Post by **wen** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:47 pm

oh yeah, I just see their was indeed a difference between groenland and canadian eskimo

my fault

Post by **Nino** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:51 pm

wen wrote:oh yeah, I just see their was indeed a difference between groenland and canadian eskimo my fault

Happens

weylyn · Post by **weylyn** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:39 pm

And do not forget that Winni did start out as a registered Tamaskan

Post by **Nino** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:53 pm

weylyn wrote:And do not forget that Winni did start out as a registered Tamaskan

well if I did a double mating with ex. (thinking up random male Tamaskan Dog) Odin and a full Husky and didn't tell anyone that the Husky had mated my bitch too, then the pups would be registered as Tamaskan Dogs till I was caught too..

YouTube · Post by **Sylvaen** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:14 pm

TerriHolt wrote:I kinda think that it would be the equivalent of crossing a Tam x GSD and saying "hey presto... A tam with new blood!"... When in fact it would be a Tamaskan X .... It's the way lynn did it because she was rushing the breed (and she wouldn't have been able to sell X's for the full price)... Nothing good can ever come of rushing things...

Just personal opinion...

I agree about not rushing things but, to be honest, you also have to think very carefully about the consequences. One probable outcome is that registered breeders simply won't 'risk' breeding to an outcross, knowing the the puppies would only be considered 'crossbreeds' and thus would have to be sold for less (when they could have a 'pure' Tamaskan litter and be totally risk-free). Also, many puppy purchasers would rather buy a dog with the Tamaskan name, than justify it to themselves that they are paying so much for a 'mutt' when they can just get one at a local shelter, which is where I think many of those puppies would end up. As long as outcrosses are very carefully considered, the resulting puppies should be in high demand because they would ADD to the breed overall... I don't think it makes sense to consider those pups as 'just a cross' when the Tamaskan 'breed' itself is simply a collection of crossbreeds!

IF / when the Tamaskan breed IS officially recognized by the FCI, then any outcross WOULD result in 'mix' offspring... but, for now, the bloodlines we already have ARE mixes, it's just marketing that gives them the 'Tamaskan' name - as long as all the puppies conform to the breed standard, then IMHO it doesn't matter if one of the parents is an outcross. This is why I am against adding pure GSD or pure husky to the bloodlines when we can directly add existing mixes and save time - I'm not talking about 'rushing things' but there's no need to undo years of work or produce litters for which there is simply no demand (and adding to the pet overpopulation problem).

weylyn · Post by **weylyn** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:49 pm

My question was pure out of curiosity and must say that my personal opinion is a bit like Debby's describe here.
But my only adding would be that I am not so against a pure breed( ok GSD and husky won't have my preference)
But only in lines that already have some stable generations and than breeding back on the tamaskans again.
My personal opinion would be to register them all as tamaskan but only decide later how they turn out if they would be pet dogs or breeding dogs.....

sky · Post by **sky** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:38 pm

Takari crossed her boy with a pure German shepherd bitch and all pups looked like the GSD. None looked remotely Tam like to me.

AZDehlin · Post by **AZDehlin** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:40 pm

sky wrote:Takari crossed her boy with a pure German shepherd bitch and all pups looked like the GSD. None looked remotely Tam like to me.

Do you have access to pictures to share with us? Interested to see even though I don't want GSD added at all.

sky · Post by **sky** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:44 pm

They are posted through her site on photobucket.

http://s345.photobucket.com/profile/takaritamaskans

Jungle book litter.

AZDehlin · Post by **AZDehlin** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:50 pm

Ah ha, they look way more like GSD then Tamaskan. Why is she continually breeding the same tams together when they produce piebalds and very many improper markings?

Post by **Nino** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:45 am

AZDehlin wrote:Ah ha, they look way more like GSD then Tamaskan. Why is she continually breeding the same tams together when they produce piebalds and very many improper markings?

I'm guessing she doesn't have other options..

I still don't think the way is to just to register any out-cross as anything other than Tamaskan mixes..

I am personally more than willing to do out-crossing and selling the pups as mixes..
that the pups aren't registered as Tamaskans does not scare me off and I do not think it will hurt the finding the pups homes either.. might not be the same people but homes can be just as good..

AZDehlin · Post by **AZDehlin** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:13 am

Nino wrote:
I am personally more than willing to do out-crossing and selling the pups as mixes..
that the pups aren't registered as Tamaskans does not scare me off and I do not think it will hurt the finding the pups homes either.. might not be the same people but homes can be just as good..

I am also willing to do out crosses, especially if it will better the breed in the long run. After all it isn't just about us but the future of tamaskan as a breed.

YouTube · Post by **Sylvaen** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:44 am

The point I was trying to make is that Tamaskans ARE mixes (a selectively-bred cross of Huskies, Malamutes, Northern Inuit, Utonagan, Finnish Racing Huskies, Czech, Saarloos, GSD, etc). Until the breed is officially recognized AS a "BREED", we may as well make the most of having an open stud book.

IF we add a mixbreed dog (that LOOKS like a Tam) to the original Tam bloodlines, why not call the resulting puppies 'Tamaskan' if they look and act like any other Tamaskan (or "better")? any pups that don't meet the breed standard would have breeding restrictions.

For further consideration: IF we add a pure GSD (hypothetical situation) wouldn't the puppies be GSD-crosses (rather than Tamaskan-crosses) since GSD is the officially recognized breed??

Post by **Nino** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:06 am

if you bred a Tam with a GSD then the pup would be Tam/GSD mixes..

I don't see the Tam in this way as a mixed breed dog.. I also don't think just blindly adding mixed breed dogs that might have some comparison to the Tamaskan is a good thing..

Personally I would much rather prefer adding a pure bred dog, knowing the background and what I'm putting into the mix and taking a step back on the looks, I would also much rather own a Tamaskan mix that was bred as an out-cross with a Tam and a pure bred background on the other side of the family tree - that way I would feel much more safe with what I got.

If I was to get a mixed breed dog, I wanted to know about the background and the health testing of that.. else I would rescue an older/elderly dog..

weylyn · Post by **weylyn** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:02 am

Do you really want an officially recognition some day?
I am just asking this because as no other I know that can also bring your breed in much trouble......... I am still hoping here we manage to get the book open again or else I really see my favorite breed die out.................

BinBin · Post by **BinBin** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:11 am

Sylvaen wrote:The point I was trying to make is that Tamaskans ARE mixes (a selectively-bred cross of Huskies, Malamutes, Northern Inuit, Utonagan, Finnish Racing Huskies, Czech, Saarloos, GSD, etc).

Just to point out that the Finnish huskies in Tamaskan are normal working line Siberian Huskies. There is no such thing as "Finnish Racing Husky".

Not sure if this was yet clear to everyone.

One thing I can tell you for sure. You will not get the Tamaskan recognised as a Finnish breed. The Finnish Kennel Club made the decision to recognise and register only already FCI recognised breeds, hence they will not be suggesting any new Finnish breeds to the FCI. They made this decision after Lynn and Jennie applied for the recognition of Tamaskan as a Finnish dog breed in 2006. This was published in the FKC magazine "Koiramme". So if you want recognition, the breed's country of origin must be something else than Finland.

Post by **TerriHolt** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:24 am

Ohhh, i'm sorry... I'm confused

BinBin wrote:They made this decision after Lynn and Jennie applied for the recognition of Tamaskan as a Finnish dog breed in 2006.

They have already tried to get the 'breed' recognized? Is that just a country of origin recognition, breed in development recognition or the equivalent of KC recognition? (surely it wasn't the last one

)

BinBin · Post by **BinBin** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:41 am

TerriHolt wrote:Ohhh, i'm sorry... I'm confused

BinBin wrote:They made this decision after Lynn and Jennie applied for the recognition of Tamaskan as a Finnish dog breed in 2006.
They have already tried to get the 'breed' recognized? Is that just a country of origin recognition, breed in development recognition or the equivalent of KC recognition? (surely it wasn't the last one )

They sure did. The Finnish Kennel Club is an FCI organisation so they basically applied for the FKC to recommend Tamaskan as a new Finnish national breed and as such applied for full FCI recognition. The news about the application was in on magazine in summer 2006 and the decision of the rejection and the following decision not the accept further applications or recognise other than already FCI recognised breeds in the next magazine. So what they basically did was to make any further applications impossible. I tried to find the original magazines but failed, if my memory serves me right, it was in June/July issue 2006.

Post by **Nino** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:47 am

wow... the stupidity of some people amaze me sometimes..
why in the world would you apply for kc recognition when you clearly does not yet have a breed..
at this point if I'm not mistaken the bitch almost had had none litters, and almost all the dogs were FD dogs.. wow..

way to blow it from other people too..

(I personally would like the Tamaskan to be a recognized FCI breed some day and I always wished for this)

YouTube · Post by **Sylvaen** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:51 am

Hypothetical situation: IF the Tamaskan were ever to become widely accepted by the general public (ie due to a large population spread over a wide geographical area) wouldn't the 'official' organizations simply HAVE to recognize them? If there are 100,000 Tamaskans worldwide, in every country around the globe, and the general public can point at one and say "Hey, look at that Tamaskan" surely this would entail a level legitimacy that the official clubs would have to acknowledge at some point in the future... we're still a long way from that eventuality but I do see it becoming a possibility, one day, if the bloodlines are carefully managed and fully documented. A large portion of 'legitimacy' stems from public acceptance, in fact that's how the FCI and KC have their 'power' these days (through public perception acceptance that develops over an extended period of time).

Post by **TerriHolt** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:03 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Hypothetical situation: IF the Tamaskan were ever to become widely accepted by the general public (ie due to a large population spread over a wide geographical area) wouldn't the 'official' organizations simply HAVE to recognize them? If there are 100,000 Tamaskans worldwide, in every country around the globe, and the general public can point at one and say "Hey, look at that Tamaskan" surely this would entail a level legitimacy that the official clubs would have to acknowledge at some point in the future... we're still a long way from that eventuality but I do see it becoming a possibility, one day, if the bloodlines are carefully managed and fully documented. A large portion of 'legitimacy' stems from public acceptance, in fact that's how the FCI and KC have their 'power' these days (through public perception acceptance that develops over an extended period of time).

It has taken aprox 10 yrs to get around aprox 400 dogs... Time changes things all the time and chances are that, by the time you guys are ready for recognition, it would once again be possible.
I can imagine that, with the 'breed' lynn had to offer, they just laughed at her and thought her insane so they decided that if she were ever to approach again they wouldn't waste their time even considering it... <----- That would be my theory

The people who make the decision about this may very well be a whole new bunch of people and may be willing to at lease review... It's possible.. I think...

BinBin · Post by **BinBin** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:10 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Hypothetical situation: IF the Tamaskan were ever to become widely accepted by the general public (ie due to a large population spread over a wide geographical area) wouldn't the 'official' organizations simply HAVE to recognize them? If there are 100,000 Tamaskans worldwide, in every country around the globe, and the general public can point at one and say "Hey, look at that Tamaskan" surely this would entail a level legitimacy that the official clubs would have to acknowledge at some point in the future... we're still a long way from that eventuality but I do see it becoming a possibility, one day, if the bloodlines are carefully managed and fully documented. A large portion of 'legitimacy' stems from public acceptance, in fact that's how the FCI and KC have their 'power' these days (through public perception acceptance that develops over an extended period of time).

I cannot answer that, but I know that going through the FKC will be very difficult. I bet KC would be easier, after all the breed is more British than anything else. Finnish dog people are very proud of their original national breeds so the idea of a foreigner coming here and applying for a new national breed after breeding them under a YEAR understandably caused hackle raising...

Bummer, I tried digging through my magazines and I just cant find the bloody issues. I'll check if anyone of my dog-friends has them...

Post by **Nino** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:30 pm

TerriHolt wrote: It has taken aprox 10 yrs to get around aprox 400 dogs... Time changes things all the time and chances are that, by the time you guys are ready for recognition, it would once again be possible.

The breeding in the future is more likely to grow exponentially since the breeders are now many more and more will likely to come, but I'd rather that it takes time and is done right "the first time" (yeah she really screwed that up)

BinBin · Post by **BinBin** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:21 pm

Here is the clip. It says that only FCI registered or breeds accepted nationally in the northern countries will be registered in the FKC. The decision was inspired by the registry applications of american hairless terrier and tamaskan dog.

Ciaobella · Post by **Ciaobella** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:18 pm

Nino wrote:if you bred a Tam with a GSD then the pup would be Tam/GSD mixes..

I don't see the Tam in this way as a mixed breed dog.. I also don't think just blindly adding mixed breed dogs that might have some comparison to the Tamaskan is a good thing..

Personally I would much rather prefer adding a pure bred dog, knowing the background and what I'm putting into the mix and taking a step back on the looks, I would also much rather own a Tamaskan mix that was bred as an out-cross with a Tam and a pure bred background on the other side of the family tree - that way I would feel much more safe with what I got.

If I was to get a mixed breed dog, I wanted to know about the background and the health testing of that.. else I would rescue an older/elderly dog..

I feel like that situation would be a difficult one. Not that it can't happen but a lot of breeders that would be great candidates would not offer up there dog for stud unless you find very nice, understanding breeder or have prior friendships with great breeders.

Booma · Post by **Booma** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:26 pm

Wasn't that Why bobbi's name and breed was hidden? Because otherwise the breeder would have gotten in trouble for letting another breed use him?

weylyn · Post by **weylyn** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:29 pm

Sorry but I am the owner of Bobbi and NO that wasn't the reason because the Saarloos community I am in know it all from the beginning and even wanted to work together if they would do things in the open.......
The reason his name and breed was hidden was because the blues worried about what people would think of that breed as it was started out of a GSD with WOLF......
But we all know now that they are just dogs with some behavior that isn't

Post by **Nino** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:36 pm

Ciaobella wrote:
Nino wrote:if you bred a Tam with a GSD then the pup would be Tam/GSD mixes..

I don't see the Tam in this way as a mixed breed dog.. I also don't think just blindly adding mixed breed dogs that might have some comparison to the Tamaskan is a good thing..

Personally I would much rather prefer adding a pure bred dog, knowing the background and what I'm putting into the mix and taking a step back on the looks, I would also much rather own a Tamaskan mix that was bred as an out-cross with a Tam and a pure bred background on the other side of the family tree - that way I would feel much more safe with what I got.

If I was to get a mixed breed dog, I wanted to know about the background and the health testing of that.. else I would rescue an older/elderly dog..

I feel like that situation would be a difficult one. Not that it can't happen but a lot of breeders that would be great candidates would not offer up there dog for stud unless you find very nice, understanding breeder or have prior friendships with great breeders.

There will always be people willing to help, it is a matter of taking the time and not rushing into things.. that is at least my opinion on it..

@Weylyn it's like asking you this.. did your dog hurt from having had a litter with a non Saarloos dog?

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:09 pm

Kylievr wrote:Wasn't that Why bobbi's name and breed was hidden? Because otherwise the breeder would have gotten in trouble for letting another breed use him?

Believe me... I was there when the contact was made between Bobbi's owner and Lynn. That sure wasn't the reason

weylyn · Post by **weylyn** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:00 am

Nino wrote: @Weylyn it's like asking you this.. did your dog hurt from having had a litter with a non Saarloos dog?

No, not at all Nino. More the opposite.
I do must add here that we have 2 Saarloos communities here. Like I said the one I am in was even talking about working together with the Tamaskan if all was in the open( well that wasn't so we went an other way) The other did convicted it

And the Czech community here would also not be happy with it

It all depends of course how the community is where you are in and how you can talk to each other etc....

Post by **Nino** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:34 pm

weylyn wrote:
Nino wrote: @Weylyn it's like asking you this.. did your dog hurt from having had a litter with a non Saarloos dog?
No, not at all Nino. More the opposite.
I do must add here that we have 2 Saarloos communities here. Like I said the one I am in was even talking about working together with the Tamaskan if all was in the open( well that wasn't so we went an other way) The other did convicted it
And the Czech community here would also not be happy with it

It all depends of course how the community is where you are in and how you can talk to each other etc....

That is exactly what I was thinking!
There will always be people interested in working together

It is sad that it was screwed up back then..

sovereignz · Post by **sovereignz** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:50 pm

Hello all! I'm new to this community, and fairly new to the dog world. I have an odd suggestion to inlcude in the Tamaskan quest for a wolfier look. First of all, I do believe that GSDs, Huskies, and Mals can mostly create a wolf-like breed. However, have you thought about including dogs that include (don't laugh) greyhound?

Inlcuding the greyhound may seem odd, since they don't have a typical wolfy-look. With good breeding, however, greyound-GSD mixes, greyhound Husky mixes, and greyhound Mal mixes have a decently wolfy-appearance. The wolfiest of those dogs could then be bred to Tamaskans. Why a greyhound? They have long, long legs--wolves proportionately have longer legs than northern breeds and GSDs. They have narrower chests--again, wolves have chests that are narrower than most domestics. They have small ears--wolves have smaller ears than the aforementioned breeds. They are calm, a trait not found in wolves but desired in Tamaskans. They obviously have some less-desirable characteristics, such as a smaller head, floppy ears, and short fur, but bred to a furry GSD, husky, mal, etc, and then having THAT be bred back to a longer-furred (and possibly shorter-legged and wider-chested) Tamaskan could give a more-wolfy look.

Google those crosses and see for yourselves! Here's one example of a (rather wolf-like) husky-greyhound mix:

http://mikejaycock.com/2011/01/

Post by **Katlin** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:57 pm

I have a friend who has a husky greyhound, he is a good looking dog, but the prey drive is through the roof and he has issues with separation anxiety and male aggression. Far as I know these tend to run along the breed line along with shyness. It may create a better look (MAY) but what about the temperament?

Valravn · Post by **Valravn** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:09 pm

Isn't Greyhound in the ANCD?

AZDehlin · Post by **AZDehlin** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:15 pm

The ANCD (another wolfy looking breed) has used greyhounds in their creation and they do give that breed a wolfier over all body type. I wouldn't want a pure Greyhound introduced but if the right specimen with greyhound behind them came around I would be willing to listen.

Booma · Post by **Booma** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:33 pm

My uncle has a grey hound, an ex racer. He is the most placid dog I have ever met. They have a cat and be has never tried to chase or hurt it. I don't know how he would go if they were walking him and a cat ran past though.

sovereignz · Post by **sovereignz** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:54 pm

I used to have a greyhound, and have many relatives that have had them, and I can tell ya, NONE had separation anxieties. They typically have a cat-like aloofness, which wouldn't be desired, but mixed with a company-loving GSD, for instance, could be mitigated. The greyhounds that I knew didn't mind if we were out or not. As for prey-drive, these greyhounds have a fairly high quantity, but not as high as huskies, for example. They chased after rodents, not bigger animals, such as cats.

And of course, a pure greyhound wouldn't be desirable, but mixed with the right breeds may not be bad.

Booma · Post by **Booma** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:56 pm

Are greyhounds hip scored before breeding?

sovereignz · Post by **sovereignz** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:12 pm

If you're asking me, I don't know. We got ours from the track. I would assume reputable breeders would hip score their breeding stock, regardless of breed.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:28 pm

I think greyhound has been mixed in with sled dogs, too. At this point I think it's wise to make a list of any and all possibilities and weigh each of them compared to one another.

But would / could greyhound mixes produce dogs with good bone? We wouldn't want to compromise the good traits we already have. I think this will be a very calculated decision that the TDR will have to make. I still come back to NI and Ute because that's where our roots are. Perhaps if the dogs we're after aren't health tested either the TDR or the breed clubs could pay for health testing on foundation dogs (and other dogs in their lineage if possible) prior to bringing them in. Just an idea. But then of course we'd have to know the makeup of the dog--not just a mix--so that appropriate testing could be done (greyhounds have their own set of health issues, as do GSDs--so all of that would have to be done on a mix $$)

Post by **Nino** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:06 pm

I do like the Greyhound, they are beautiful creatures, should be very calm and loving and easy to live with, with nice temperaments as far as I have been told.

A thing I would be worried about if bringing in Greyhound would be even more chase drive, even more difficulties to motivate (I'm unsure about this but some of the other running dogs are rather hard to motivate) and bloat..

Post by **TerriHolt** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:12 pm

It would increase the prey drive... Altho a lot can be brought up with small animals (some can not), they do chase cats in the street. Thy have the instinct to chase the bunny on the track.

My aunty (a family friend) had a friend who had a greyhound and 3 cats. It was a placid dog and wouldn't hurt a fly... or so they thought...
It killed a neighbors heavily pregnant house cat (it would go in the garden or sit on the dividing wall and never run off) because it saw the dog and ran back towards the house... The dog cleared the wall without touching it and got the cat

I was only 13 when she told me and i was heart broken for this cat and her unborn kittens...

YouTube · Post by **Sylvaen** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:23 pm

Kylievr wrote:Are greyhounds hip scored before breeding?

Actually, greyhounds (from racing bloodlines) are one of the few breeds that are not affected by hip dysplasia - it just doesn't exist in the racing greyhound bloodlines because those dogs with HD wouldn't be able to race to the same standard, so they all have pretty much excellent hips. (Show / pet bloodlines are a different story though and are just as suseptiable as any other large breed.)

That being said, it is an interesting idea but I don't think it would necessarily produce what we are looking for in the Tamaskan breed.

AZDehlin wrote:The ANCD (another wolfy looking breed) has used greyhounds in their creation and they do give that breed a wolfier over all body type.

I remain skeptical about the ANCD "creation story"...

AZDehlin wrote:I wouldn't want a pure Greyhound introduced but if the right specimen with greyhound behind them came around I would be willing to listen.

I always keep an open mind so if / when such a specimen comes along I would certainly consider it objectively.

Post by **TerriHolt** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:50 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Actually, greyhounds (from racing bloodlines) are one of the few breeds that are not affected by hip dysplasia - it just doesn't exist in the racing greyhound bloodlines because those dogs with HD wouldn't be able to race to the same standard, so they all have pretty much excellent hips. (Show / pet bloodlines are a different story though and are just as suseptiable as any other large breed.)

I (personal opinion here) would be against using greyhound breeders that supply to greyhound trainers... I'm against grey racing

. Too many injuries in the sport, 100's of dogs pst, shot, ear's lobbed off and dumped (mostly in Ireland surprise surprise), drowned... Buying from/using racing grey's is a form of supporting them... But saying that, I don't have the ability to look past thing like that and look at it from a bettering breed perspective

Sylvaen wrote:
AZDehlin wrote:The ANCD (another wolfy looking breed) has used greyhounds in their creation and they do give that breed a wolfier over all body type.
I remain skeptical about the ANCD "creation story"...

I wasn't... But I am now

Ciaobella · Post by **Ciaobella** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:51 am

I'm thinking try and find a more naturally independent breed like the Afghan Hound or Shiba Inu (maybe not those but personality wise) to help with the SA.

Ciaobella · Post by **Ciaobella** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:04 am

Hmmm, I think I like the suggestion

International Tamaskan Forum

This is an International Forum for enthusiasts, owners, breeders, and all who are interested in Tamaskan Dogs.