New outcrosses?

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Tiantai
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:42 pm

Environment affects the dog's behaviour. I think this is another factor to take into account for potential outcrosses.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:27 am

Anyone have pictures of what a golden retriever crossed with a Tamaskan would look like?

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by arianwenarie » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:50 am

aerowrx wrote:Anyone have pictures of what a golden retriever crossed with a Tamaskan would look like?
Not sure...but I believe there was a accidental litter of Tamaskan x Lab. I'd assume crossing Tamaskan with a Golden would result in the wrong structure.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:07 pm

I would imagine that such a crossing would produce pups with appearances similar to those lab/Tamaskan mixes due to the many similarities between a golden retriever and a labrador. The difference being more fluffy coats, less pig-headed, some chance of getting liver coats
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by arianwenarie » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:39 pm

Tiantai wrote:I would imagine that such a crossing would produce pups with appearances similar to those lab/Tamaskan mixes due to the many similarities between a golden retriever and a labrador. The difference being more fluffy coats, less pig-headed, some chance of getting liver coats
I wasn't aware that Goldens carry the liver gene....? I know labs do - that's "chocolate". ;)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Taz » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:16 pm

Don't know about liver, they can carry brindle and sable though.
A working line Golden crossed with a Tamaskan would probably produce some nice temperaments.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:25 pm

But goldens are some of the most inbred dogs out there--we would surely be adding more genetic disorders.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by arianwenarie » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:26 pm

Hawthorne wrote:But goldens are some of the most inbred dogs out there--we would surely be adding more genetic disorders.
I am also concerned about the high rate of cancer in Goldens...my neighbor had two Goldens from champion lines in the span of 5 years - both died of cancer.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Rahne » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:38 pm

Hawthorne wrote:But goldens are some of the most inbred dogs out there--we would surely be adding more genetic disorders.
Inbred doesn't equal genetic disorders. Also while statistically speaking high inbred dogs have more chance of certain genetic illnesses to come to light, it doesn't play a role once outcrossing. I can't say whether or not the Golden Retriever is a (un)healthy breed overall, but since every breed carries certain genetic illnesses the overall health of the breed would be of less importance to me then the individual dog (that should be healthy and coming from a healthy bloodline as far as you can tell).

I can't really think of one good reason though to add a Golden Retriever except maybe for temperament. But then there are several other breeds with nice temperaments that could possibly add more then just that :)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:45 pm

Actually, there is a high incidence of health issues in the Golden, and I would think that it is because the breed developed from so few individuals. That is not to say that a more inbred breed has to have more health risks, but the Goldens do:
Health Issues Common to Golden Retrievers
At the top of the list of health concerns in the breed is cancer. A GRCA study in 1998 found that 61.8 percent of all Goldens die of cancer, including hemangiosarcoma, lymphosarcoma, mast cell tumors and bone cancer. Some veterinarians call Goldens "Cancer retrievers," and treatments for this disease can be emotionally and financially devastating. It's not known to what extent all these forms of cancer are genetic or exactly how they're transmitted from one generation to the next, but the sky-high rate of cancer in Golden Retrievers is at least partly inherited.
Goldens also suffer from a high incidence of the painful genetic hip deformity known as "hip dysplasia," where the head of the thigh bone doesn't fit properly into the hip socket. A study published in JAVMA in 2005 reported that prevalence values of hip dysplasia range from 23.5% to 55.7% for Golden Retrievers. Serious hip dysplasia requires very costly surgical treatment and can lead to crippling arthritis.
Golden Retrievers can also have genetic elbow deformities. Eyes are another problem area in the breed, so make sure the parents have been examined by a board certified veterinary ophthalmologist and certified by the Canine Eye Registry Foundation.
Heart disease is also prevalent in Golden Retrievers, primarily the condition known as sub-aortic stenosis, a narrowing of the aorta that carries blood away from the heart. This usually shows up first as a slight heart murmur, but murmurs often occur in puppies that have no heart problems as adults. SAS can lead to sudden death, even at a young age, so have your dog's heart checked at least once a year, and investigate any murmurs thoroughly.
Epilepsy, ear infections, allergies, itching and skin infections, immune and auto-immune diseases like lupus – sometimes it seems like it would be easier to list the conditions that don't affect the Golden rather than those that do.
- See more at: http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/dog- ... h9ylZ.dpuf
http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/dog- ... -retriever

I certainly wouldn't consider adding the Golden, either. :/
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Taz » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:32 pm

I'd rather see working line gsd used personally.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:55 am

arianwenarie wrote:
Tiantai wrote:I would imagine that such a crossing would produce pups with appearances similar to those lab/Tamaskan mixes due to the many similarities between a golden retriever and a labrador. The difference being more fluffy coats, less pig-headed, some chance of getting liver coats
I wasn't aware that Goldens carry the liver gene....? I know labs do - that's "chocolate". ;)
Yes, some of them do. I've seen liver-coloured Golden Retrievers before.
Hawthorne wrote:But goldens are some of the most inbred dogs out there--we would surely be adding more genetic disorders.
I don't think that they're worth crossing the Tamaskan breed with anyway. Floppy ears, unsuitable body structure, and the hair pattern is in my opinion too wavy. Although I like the temperament of that breed but still...
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by balto13 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:10 am

Taz wrote:I'd rather see working line gsd used personally.
agreed, but I don't think healthy,working line,straight back, with even temperament, GSD who come from ethical breeders (willing to allow their pups to be used in an unrecognized crossbreed) will be easy to come by :? at least in the U.S. where spay/neuter contracts are legally binding.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:25 am

Our working line GSD has some cons too.. Barking a lot and whining as some of the communcation ways she has. Not something I wish to see common in the Tam..

Another thing is compared to a Tamaskan she is slow to learn and needs repititions much more than our Tam did.. She almost seems stupid compared to the Tams (and other artic breeds I know).. She is however much more biddable and focuses for a long time, plus easily motivated and wanting to please.. She also isn't as soft as our Tam was.. Sometimes she needs to be taken in the ruff to where she needs to be to understand where the Tam would not have been able to handle that..


There is pros and cons with every breed of course..

The Golden I would not be interested in.. I looked at the flatcoated for a while, but they too have health issues..
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Vajente » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:38 am

Nino wrote:Our working line GSD has some cons too.. Barking a lot and whining as some of the communcation ways she has. Not something I wish to see common in the Tam..

Another thing is compared to a Tamaskan she is slow to learn and needs repititions much more than our Tam did.. She almost seems stupid compared to the Tams (and other artic breeds I know).. She is however much more biddable and focuses for a long time, plus easily motivated and wanting to please.. She also isn't as soft as our Tam was.. Sometimes she needs to be taken in the ruff to where she needs to be to understand where the Tam would not have been able to handle that..


There is pros and cons with every breed of course..

The Golden I would not be interested in.. I looked at the flatcoated for a while, but they too have health issues..
that's odd, my GSD is a lot smarter then my Tam and as far as I met other Tams, I don't think they are that intelligent.
but you could just have a dumb GSD, there are idiots everywhere :mrgreen:

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by firleymj » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:51 pm

On breed characteristics, "maintenance" and SA in particular:

Just an uninformed opinion (based on a sample of one Tamaskan puppy at very close range and four more adults from a little distance), and the experience of a number of dogs over a lifetime:

1. My own experience is that Kona's separation anxiety is dropping as he gets older. Five minute absences that used to turn into pathetic howling are now tolerated quite nicely, and without destructive behavior. Twenty minutes away was once unthinkable - he's enthusiastic greeting me when I return, but we're without the frenzy that he had earlier. More time and more confidence building is necessary - he's just turned five months old. Would you leave a four year old HUMAN for long periods alone and not get problems? Be realistic. He's in the process of learning that I'm reliable in coming back. He's also bright enough to distract himself with toys or nosing the other animals - though tortoises don't generally "play" in Tamaskan terms (or anybody else's to tell the truth). If he can be with another dog/human during my absence, he's 100% OK.

2. All the dogs I've owned before Kona were "Heinz 57s" - lord only knows what breeds went into those mixes. Kona seems much less work in general than my spaniel/setter/something mix (my previous dog) only because he learns so quickly. He's also much more at ease and social than many dogs I know - something that even his vet and people at the dog park have remarked upon - he even gets along with a skittery Rotweiller (who's, believe it or not, afraid of many other dogs) - but Kona seems to intuit her limits and respect them. Finding other dogs he won't wear out playing can be hard, but there's not a mean bone in him!

3. Disclaimer: I'm a work-at-home type, so I have lots of time to spend with/near him and while I'm no more "in shape" than any other proto-Senior Citizen, (think OAP elsewhere) [>55<65] some long walks (running is out for me) daily are good for us both. So my experience is that Tamaskans are a little different, but in general no worse, and in some ways easier than other dogs. IF the differences mean a lot to you - you have to be gone 12+ hours per day on a regular basis (face it, there are people with two jobs in today's economy, no disparagement there - you have my respect) or you can't at least walk regularly, then a large outdoorsy breed probably isn't for you - no matter if they're Tamaskans or [Insert favorite sporting/working dog breed here]. If you want/need a "purse dog", a Tam is not a real good "2nd choice" but that works the other way around, too. I'm a big growly-sounding guy with more marshmallow at my heart than I generally admit - so Hawthorne (thanks, Ben and Tracy) found me the perfect dog for me - big puppy dog, looks intimidating, will lick you to death and a heart of gold. My first signature line says it.

"Three is a run, five is a trend, eight is a statistic" - W. Edwards Deming. I hope to get my own Tamaskan trend information over the years of my remaining life (smile)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:17 pm

Vjante

It could also be that my Tamaskan was extremely intelligent (she sure was!) and the Tams that I have met besides her I have not been with enough to correctly evaluate them as being anything else than quite above average intelligent..

My GSD on the other hand is just plain normal, we are taking classes with the police club who mostly have working line GSDs there and she seem to be quite average there
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:45 pm

Nino wrote:Our working line GSD has some cons too.. Barking a lot and whining as some of the communcation ways she has. Not something I wish to see common in the Tam..

Another thing is compared to a Tamaskan she is slow to learn and needs repititions much more than our Tam did.. She almost seems stupid compared to the Tams (and other artic breeds I know).. She is however much more biddable and focuses for a long time, plus easily motivated and wanting to please.. She also isn't as soft as our Tam was.. Sometimes she needs to be taken in the ruff to where she needs to be to understand where the Tam would not have been able to handle that..


There is pros and cons with every breed of course..

The Golden I would not be interested in.. I looked at the flatcoated for a while, but they too have health issues..

My boss has a black working line gsd. Hes hell smart, but a bit crazy (aren't all gsds lol) and *must* be worked all the time. They can't just go for a walk, he has to work the whole time and have his brain going or he isn't happy. This dog also barks and whines a lot.
I have had many gsds come to us for training, both working line and not, and while the dogs are smart, I find a *lot* of people just cannot handle them.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:19 am

Kylievr wrote:
Nino wrote:Our working line GSD has some cons too.. Barking a lot and whining as some of the communcation ways she has. Not something I wish to see common in the Tam..

Another thing is compared to a Tamaskan she is slow to learn and needs repititions much more than our Tam did.. She almost seems stupid compared to the Tams (and other artic breeds I know).. She is however much more biddable and focuses for a long time, plus easily motivated and wanting to please.. She also isn't as soft as our Tam was.. Sometimes she needs to be taken in the ruff to where she needs to be to understand where the Tam would not have been able to handle that..


There is pros and cons with every breed of course..

The Golden I would not be interested in.. I looked at the flatcoated for a while, but they too have health issues..

My boss has a black working line gsd. Hes hell smart, but a bit crazy (aren't all gsds lol) and *must* be worked all the time. They can't just go for a walk, he has to work the whole time and have his brain going or he isn't happy. This dog also barks and whines a lot.
I have had many gsds come to us for training, both working line and not, and while the dogs are smart, I find a *lot* of people just cannot handle them.
Our girl is actually pretty easy to get to relax and doesn't need to be worked all the time.. she loves to do stuff, but it isn't needed..
she is much more relaxed than Sølve ever was really ;)

She's a black working line GSD too btw.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:42 am

Nino wrote:
Kylievr wrote:
Nino wrote:Our working line GSD has some cons too.. Barking a lot and whining as some of the communcation ways she has. Not something I wish to see common in the Tam..

Another thing is compared to a Tamaskan she is slow to learn and needs repititions much more than our Tam did.. She almost seems stupid compared to the Tams (and other artic breeds I know).. She is however much more biddable and focuses for a long time, plus easily motivated and wanting to please.. She also isn't as soft as our Tam was.. Sometimes she needs to be taken in the ruff to where she needs to be to understand where the Tam would not have been able to handle that..


There is pros and cons with every breed of course..

The Golden I would not be interested in.. I looked at the flatcoated for a while, but they too have health issues..

My boss has a black working line gsd. Hes hell smart, but a bit crazy (aren't all gsds lol) and *must* be worked all the time. They can't just go for a walk, he has to work the whole time and have his brain going or he isn't happy. This dog also barks and whines a lot.
I have had many gsds come to us for training, both working line and not, and while the dogs are smart, I find a *lot* of people just cannot handle them.
Our girl is actually pretty easy to get to relax and doesn't need to be worked all the time.. she loves to do stuff, but it isn't needed..
she is much more relaxed than Sølve ever was really ;)

She's a black working line GSD too btw.
Yes I did know that. I'm glad your dog isn't as crazy as my bosses :-)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Taz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:48 pm

Heard good things from people who own or know dogs from here.
http://www.nyrvana.co.uk/
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by JenTehLuv » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:16 am

I like the look of the first female they have listed in the gallery since she has the right color coat etc.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:43 am

Anyone spinning any ideas on reducing the Tamaskan ear size? I don't know if it's just me but in pictures it looks like there is a lot of variety in Tamaskan ear size still.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by firleymj » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:12 pm

Not sure if this is true generally, but a lot of what you may be seeing is, in part, the high population of puppies and younger dogs in the pictures - the older dogs I think are more (still not completely, but more) uniform there - but with a relatively new breed that's growing each generation, what you may see is a selection bias toward younger animals and thus more apparent variability than really exists.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by AZDehlin » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:00 am

firleymj wrote:Not sure if this is true generally, but a lot of what you may be seeing is, in part, the high population of puppies and younger dogs in the pictures - the older dogs I think are more (still not completely, but more) uniform there - but with a relatively new breed that's growing each generation, what you may see is a selection bias toward younger animals and thus more apparent variability than really exists.
I think you are right... we have a topic in here some where we measured dogs ears. They were all within a centimeter if I remember right.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:33 pm

aerowrx wrote:Anyone spinning any ideas on reducing the Tamaskan ear size? I don't know if it's just me but in pictures it looks like there is a lot of variety in Tamaskan ear size still.
Yes! I can talk a little about this. I measured the ear size in newborn pups and then once a week for our first litter. They are born proportionate. That is: if they were born with big ears they grew to be big as adults, but if they were born with small ears they grew to be small as adults.

One interesting thing to note about trying to shrink ear size was described by Patricia Trotter in Born To Win: Breed to Succeed. She has been involved in Norwegian elkhounds for a very very long time as a breeder, exhibitor and is also a show judge. What she noticed about trying to shrink ear size in the elkhound may or may not be what we will experience in the Tamaskan. She explained that as ears were reduced in size, the expression on the dog was ruined. Eyes started to become bulgy and became the wrong shape. And the stop changed in shape as well. She also noticed a correlation in these two traits (small ears and bulgy eyes) and a bad front (bad shoulder set).

As much as I want smaller ears, I won't sacrifice the shape and placement of the eye for them. The skull is a skeletal structure and if we go about changing the skeletal structure of the dog it will be much, much more difficult to correct than other elements (such as ears, coat, etc.)

There will certainly be pups that have small ears without bulging eyes and that's great. All that's needed is prioritization of traits that we want to improve but also to hold on to! :D
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:58 pm

Has anyone suggested the white swiss shepherd yet?
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:43 am

Kylievr wrote:Has anyone suggested the white swiss shepherd yet?
If memory serves me correctly, I remember asking if the White German Shepherds exist in the breed's genepool on the "old group" before it got reported and taken off due to the issue with one of the albums containing one of Tuuli's photo of her dog without her permission. But that was before I was told by Lynn and Jennie that white or cream colour was not desired in the breed. Of course, since the Blu duo are gone now I don't think what they told me years ago matters anymore.

On the other hand, if Ziva's next attempt is successful it will add some White Shepherd into the breed. Also, some dogs already have them from the Marxdorfer outcross in which the White Shepherds were used to create that breed.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Sylvaen » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:42 am

Tiantai wrote:But that was before I was told by Lynn and Jennie that white or cream colour was not desired in the breed. Of course, since the Blu duo are gone now I don't think what they told me years ago matters anymore.
If I remember correctly, it was because they were under the impression that adding white (as in WSS) would result in piebald / inkspot puppies, which is not how genetics works... I have nothing against WSS, I just think the body structure is not exactly what we're looking for in the Tamaskan and so adding a purebred WSS would be like taking a step back. I would much prefer if an outcross was a WSS mix (such as Ziva, or a Marxdorfer). :)
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by aerowrx » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:23 pm

Are you guys planning to add ancd? I know there was some talk before

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:29 pm

There is one dog who will be up for consideration once he has his health testing done. He is very handsome and I think would have a lot to offer the breed. Time will tell, though.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nimwey » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:32 pm

I think it would be awesome if he could be used in the breed, but is the ANCD breeder okay with that? :o
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:36 pm

I believe There are two ancd who are possibilities once health testing is done. Ann seems ok with using her dogs in new breeds. I was talking to her a little while ago about possibly getting one.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:38 am

Some ANCD have already been bred with other crossbreeds in the past and Ann hasn't made any ill remarks about them :D or at least none that I know of

Of course, it's always crucial to let her know and I am confident the owners wanting to use the breed for outcross would eventually tell her anyways.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:12 pm

I get that question sometimes.. if I cross my Black German Shepherd with a White Swiss Shepherd (or as they are sometimes called here White German Shepherd) then would it create spottet/pied puppies?
It is quite the question.. if so.. there would be more "panda" looking German Shepherds lol
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:36 pm

Nino wrote:I get that question sometimes.. if I cross my Black German Shepherd with a White Swiss Shepherd (or as they are sometimes called here White German Shepherd) then would it create spottet/pied puppies?
It is quite the question.. if so.. there would be more "panda" looking German Shepherds lol

Line, I'm sure if you research properly, you will find that a black shepherd crossed with a white one will actually make grey shepherds.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Cornelia1986 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:08 pm

Ann is ok with using her ANCD's as outcrosses as far as I'm aware. She also will start to build up an European ANCD breeding programm as soon as there are more ANCD here. Atm 1 ANCD (black) lives in Switzerland and 1 (white) in Germany.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:08 pm

Kylievr wrote:
Nino wrote:I get that question sometimes.. if I cross my Black German Shepherd with a White Swiss Shepherd (or as they are sometimes called here White German Shepherd) then would it create spottet/pied puppies?
It is quite the question.. if so.. there would be more "panda" looking German Shepherds lol

Line, I'm sure if you research properly, you will find that a black shepherd crossed with a white one will actually make grey shepherds.
*sigh* :roll:
Please read what I wrote before commenting..

I did NOT state that solid black GSD + solid white GSD would result in spotted or pied bald.. I stated that I got this question sometimes..
And I get this question because I KNOW about that stuff..

And no.. solid black German Shepherd mated with solid white German Shepherds (or White Swiss Shepherd) would not necessarily result in grey offspring (and by Gray I assume you mean sable as the GSD world call it or Wolfgrey as the color is called in genetic terms?).

It is true that a certain amount of such matings would give that result, BUT not all would, as it is not because the white and the black mixes and gives grey, but it is rather because the Black German Shepherd does not carry white, nor any other color than black (most often that is, as most European clubs - under FCI - will not allow breeding on dogs that is liver or blue, or for that matter breeding White Swiss Shepherd with normal German Shepherd Dog, as it is no longer seen as the same breed). The white parent would therefore be the one determing what color the offspring would have.. and whether (s)he carried solid black, sable (wolfgrey), black and tan or even brindle (although I have never heard about that in WSS's) that together with the other parent carrying only black would decide if the offspring would be one of the colors or a mix of them (depending on if the WSS would carry two different colors or two copies of the same color)..
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:36 pm

Nino wrote:
Kylievr wrote:
Nino wrote:I get that question sometimes.. if I cross my Black German Shepherd with a White Swiss Shepherd (or as they are sometimes called here White German Shepherd) then would it create spottet/pied puppies?
It is quite the question.. if so.. there would be more "panda" looking German Shepherds lol

Line, I'm sure if you research properly, you will find that a black shepherd crossed with a white one will actually make grey shepherds.
*sigh* :roll:
Please read what I wrote before commenting..

I did NOT state that solid black GSD + solid white GSD would result in spotted or pied bald.. I stated that I got this question sometimes..
And I get this question because I KNOW about that stuff..

And no.. solid black German Shepherd mated with solid white German Shepherds (or White Swiss Shepherd) would not necessarily result in grey offspring (and by Gray I assume you mean sable as the GSD world call it or Wolfgrey as the color is called in genetic terms?).

It is true that a certain amount of such matings would give that result, BUT not all would, as it is not because the white and the black mixes and gives grey, but it is rather because the Black German Shepherd does not carry white, nor any other color than black (most often that is, as most European clubs - under FCI - will not allow breeding on dogs that is liver or blue, or for that matter breeding White Swiss Shepherd with normal German Shepherd Dog, as it is no longer seen as the same breed). The white parent would therefore be the one determing what color the offspring would have.. and whether (s)he carried solid black, sable (wolfgrey), black and tan or even brindle (although I have never heard about that in WSS's) that together with the other parent carrying only black would decide if the offspring would be one of the colors or a mix of them (depending on if the WSS would carry two different colors or two copies of the same color)..
Its a joke. White + black = grey.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Tiantai » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:32 am

I don't think crossing black and white results in whit with dotty coats either. I'm more convinced by the recent evidences that the pied-bald gene is something that has already existed in the breed for decades since the Northern Inuit and Utonagan era.

Although I sometimes do wonder how in the world did these fluffy sheep-like coats (found in Maremmas), black spotty colours (dalmatians), or blue eyes come pop domestic dogs generally speaking. I know they've been here for thousands of years and have seen that domestic fox experiment, but still, it's just weird how turning a grey wolf into a dog created these fancy shapes and colours.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Nino » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:27 am

Kylievr wrote: Its a joke. White + black = grey.
Oh.. sorry :oops:
It's just.. I've gotten that question before too :roll: :oops: :lol:
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:16 pm

Nino wrote:
Kylievr wrote: Its a joke. White + black = grey.
Oh.. sorry :oops:
It's just.. I've gotten that question before too :roll: :oops: :lol:



Haha I'm not very good at genetics, but I'm not that stupid :-P
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by weylyn » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:06 pm

Kylievr wrote:I believe There are two ancd who are possibilities once health testing is done. Ann seems ok with using her dogs in new breeds. I was talking to her a little while ago about possibly getting one.
Well it would be great indeed if Australia is also thinking about getting up a new outcross line even if they still have few dogs. It does mean also new blood for the rest of the world in the future.......
I think it is a great idea

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Kootenaywolf » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:35 pm

Cornelia1986 wrote:Ann is ok with using her ANCD's as outcrosses as far as I'm aware. She also will start to build up an European ANCD breeding programm as soon as there are more ANCD here. Atm 1 ANCD (black) lives in Switzerland and 1 (white) in Germany.
The black ANCD in Switzerland is absolutely STUNNING! She turned out really nice.

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:57 pm

Kootenaywolf wrote:
Cornelia1986 wrote:Ann is ok with using her ANCD's as outcrosses as far as I'm aware. She also will start to build up an European ANCD breeding programm as soon as there are more ANCD here. Atm 1 ANCD (black) lives in Switzerland and 1 (white) in Germany.
The black ANCD in Switzerland is absolutely STUNNING! She turned out really nice.

Is that Emma? She's beautiful <3
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Kootenaywolf » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:44 pm

Kylievr wrote:
Is that Emma? She's beautiful <3
Yeah, Emma! :)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by martinbernstein » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:40 pm

I'm so glad that the breeders are finally considering ANCD as a serious possible outcross. This could add a whole new dimension to the Tamaskan breed. New color genes (solid black and black agouti being the most interesting), new color shades and hues, and less husky-like conformation.

Hope this goes well. If these outcross breedings are successful I might even reconsider getting another tam in a few years.

Exciting times:)

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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by chelle784 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:08 pm

Not sure if this has already been suggested but what about some of the other Finnish breeds? This is my cousin's Finnish Lapphund. Although he is probably too fluffy he still has the mask, his sister is a red colour so they come in other colours. He also has small ears. However he does have a curly tail like huskies, but maybe a finnish lapphund cross would be suitable? Not sure about now but when they first got him there were only 2 breeders in the UK but i'm assuming they are more common in Finland.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Taz » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:08 pm

I can see their size, or lack there of, being an issue.
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Re: New outcrosses?

Post by Booma » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:21 pm

Taz wrote:I can see their size, or lack there of, being an issue.
I agree, they are much too small.
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