Seasons (heat) Questions and Related

All topics pertaining to mating and whelping, as well as upcoming / planned litters.
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Seasons (heat) Questions and Related

Post by RoyAM » Mon May 10, 2010 12:34 am

As ive mentioned my 6 month girl Nebraska has came into season

got advice from our vet on which i considered was a bit vage

how long is the normal season? 2 weeks - 17days

when is the most fertile time?

obviously there will be no consideration of matting until past 2 years, and even then only if we feel it is right, so any advice on safety and precations around this time is much appreciated. I will not consider any injection from vet to get her through season.

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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Sylvaen » Mon May 10, 2010 12:48 am

Well, the length of season really varies quite a bit from individual to individual. The "normal" time frame doesn't always fit and sometimes even one female's season will be longer or shorter than another season. Usually though, they are fairly consistent from season to season so once you know how long this one will last, you can keep that in mind for the next one (it's handy to keep a logbook so you don't have to worry about remembering the details).

The most fertile time is around the time she ovulates (2 days before to 2 days after ovulation) and this generally coincides with her "progesterone peak" - which is when she will stand to allow a male to mount her. For a few days before that time she will just flirt and dance around and not allow any male to try to mount. Once she is at the stage when she wants to be mounted, there's a 3-5 day window during which time she will readily mate with any male dog and is highly likely to get pregnant.

After this phase she will then begin to lose interest until finally the season is over. She may also experience a "false pregnancy" directly after her season, which consists of motherly / nesting instincts as well as (for some females) lactation. This is a natural phenomenon and nothing to worry about. Then you just have to wait 6 months and repeat the whole process all over again. ;)
RoyAM wrote:obviously there will be no consideration of matting until past 2 years, and even then only if we feel it is right, so any advice on safety and precations around this time is much appreciated. I will not consider any injection from vet to get her through season.
Definitely keep males and females completely separate, with TWO doors in-between (if possible). If you can keep them in separate households that would be even better, just to minimize the stress levels during this time. Otherwise, you just need to be extra vigilant and wait until it's passed. Good luck! :)
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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by RoyAM » Mon May 10, 2010 3:16 am

Sylvaen wrote:Definitely keep males and females completely separate, with TWO doors in-between (if possible). If you can keep them in separate households that would be even better, just to minimize the stress levels during this time. Otherwise, you just need to be extra vigilant and wait until it's passed. Good luck! :)
Thats exactly what we have done, Dakota is on holiday with a very good friend until the season is over, this is just what he needs also as he is very close to Nebraska and used to whine the place down if he was separated from her whether in season or not.

seasons every 6 months was not the case with our old girl Nakita as she was having 3 a year, is this un heard off or more common in bigger dogs?

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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Sylvaen » Mon May 10, 2010 1:44 pm

RoyAM wrote:seasons every 6 months was not the case with our old girl Nakita as she was having 3 a year, is this un heard off or more common in bigger dogs?
wow that's quite a lot, but not completely uncommon... each dog is different.
Generally the cycle is every 5-8 months, with 6/7 being the average.

According to this source:
The interestrus interval (period between outwardly apparent heat cycles) consists
of diestrus and anestus and normally varies from 4 1/2 to 10 months in duration, with 7 the average.
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/smal ... s/ceBM.pdf

And another source:
larger dogs tend to have shorter interestrus intervals than small dogs (contrary to popular opinion)
http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/Th ... canine.htm

So I think in your case it's totally normal, it just means you have to put up with it more often. :)
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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Sugalba » Mon May 10, 2010 2:54 pm

I think the worst is not knowing the day the bitch is ready. Sometimes its the first day after she is bleeding, sometimes the 21st day, you never know without a blood test or swab.
In normal dogs it is around day 11, but we all know Tamaskan like to be annoyingly different, but we love them anyway.

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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Hawthorne » Mon May 10, 2010 9:00 pm

Freyja's first heat was 30 days long! Lucky dog! (not really--poor girl)
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In heat & castrated male

Post by Rahne » Mon May 10, 2010 9:02 pm

I was wondering something.. Konah hasn't come into season yet but she's almost 10 months old now so she could come into season any time now.

I have a male that is castrated, he has never been into contact with bitches in heat so I have no idea how he will respond but the chances are big that he will want to mount Konah.

If he does try then should I let him as he can't produce? Or should I keep them seperated? Does anyone have experience with a situation like this?

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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Sylvaen » Mon May 10, 2010 9:12 pm

I think it all depends when he was castrated. If he was castrated when he was young then he probably won't have the same urge than if he'd been castrated at an older (fully mature) age. I guess you just have to wait and see what happens. I'm not sure if you should allow him to mount or not though... it might just make them both frustrated, if nothing else.
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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Blustag » Mon May 10, 2010 9:14 pm

If he is castrated then you have no problems. I would just let him carry on so long as she isnt bothered with it. If she is then you will need to stop him from bothering her.

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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Blustag » Mon May 10, 2010 9:18 pm

In my experience seasons can last up to 30 days. With my Belgian SHepherds I used to mate around the 11th to 13th day and no problems. With my Tamaskan I have had a successful mating on day 5 and day 29 so I now keep my girls separate from the start until day 30 at least. My Malamutes are normal lol...

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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Hawthorne » Mon May 10, 2010 9:28 pm

Fenris is from the Humane Society--so he was fixed before 8 weeks old. He was quite interested in Freyja when she was in heat. We just supervised them at all times (which is time consuming--but Freyja desperately loves her Fenris--and they play all the time.)
Our vet told us that dogs have an STD (Brucillosis --sp?) that can be contracted from one dog to the other. Once a female has the STD, she has it for life and should only be bred artificially (AI). Least someone's stud dog (or yours) also gets the STD. Anyone know more about this? I didn't let Fenris mount Freyja. I always corrected him when he did this.
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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Blustag » Mon May 10, 2010 9:36 pm

There is a simple blood test for this as I had one of my Malamute females done as she was mated in Finland a couple of years ago and I wanted to use a dog here in UK. It is not a problem in the UK but I believe it is in other countries.

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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Rahne » Mon May 10, 2010 9:45 pm

I think that if she doesn't want it then she will not let him ;) Sometimes males try to mount her if we're walking outside and she will tell them to buzz off. But if she's on her peek then she will probably let anyone mount her.
Our vet told us that dogs have an STD (Brucillosis --sp?) that can be contracted from one dog to the other. Once a female has the STD, she has it for life and should only be bred artificially (AI). Least someone's stud dog (or yours) also gets the STD. Anyone know more about this? I didn't let Fenris mount Freyja. I always corrected him when he did this.
I have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about here, could someone explain please :oops:

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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by blufawn » Mon May 10, 2010 9:46 pm

Rahne wrote:If he does try then should I let him as he can't produce? Or should I keep them seperated? Does anyone have experience with a situation like this?
I am sure there is nothing mentally or physically wrong with it, but I am sure it is unpleasant to watch while eating your sunday roast. If you don't want them 'carrying on' every season she has then I'd nip it in the bud now.
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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Blustag » Mon May 10, 2010 9:53 pm

Rahne wrote:I have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about here, could someone explain please :oops:
Canine Brucillosis is an STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease) and can be passed from the male to the female. Once the female gets it she has it for life. SO, if a male were to mate and tie with her then he would become infected too. I had to have a blood test done on my female malamute before being allowed to use a male here in the UK all because she was mated to a male out in Finland a couple of years back. She was tested clear. It is not a problem in the UK but is in Europe.

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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Rahne » Mon May 10, 2010 9:59 pm

Ok, thanks for explaining. I didn't know that dogs could get STD aswell, do they get sick of it?

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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Sylvaen » Mon May 10, 2010 10:58 pm

With Vixen, she wasn't ready on Day 9, Day 10, Day 11, Day 12, Day 13, Day 14 or Day 15... which was a real nuisance considering the 16 hour car ride to get her to the stud dog! Then suddenly, around Day 21-23, she was ready and willing. At least we'll know now for next year!! :roll:
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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Hawthorne » Mon May 10, 2010 11:38 pm

Which is the more accurate test? blood or swab?
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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Sylvaen » Tue May 11, 2010 12:15 am

Hawthorne wrote:Which is the more accurate test? blood or swab?
Blood progesterone test. without a doubt!!

At the vet clinic here they didn't have equipment to do the blood test (apparently the blood would have to be sent to Austria and it would take 3 days to get the result) so I just relied on the smear (cytology) test. I had Vixen swabbed twice when she first came in to season (on Day 5 and Day 8) and the vet said she should be ready around Day 11-13... so we planned around those days and made a looong drive to the Netherlands... only, when we got there, she wasn't ready yet! She was still flirting / dancing around but definitely not ready to be mounted yet. So, we went to the vet in Holland, where their equipment is SO much more up-to-date (the results came back within the HOUR!) and the result revealed a progesterone level of only 2.5, which told us that we were definitely several days too early. Once they reach a progesterone level of 4 then that is the time to start trying... since the peak goes all the way up to 8 or 10.

Anyway, in the future I will definitely forget about the cytology (swab) test completely because, first of all, Vixen utterly hated it (she was terrified of being poked and it must have been very uncomfortable) and, secondly, it is not very accurate at all as it relies solely on guesswork. Even the best vet in the world can only predict a certain window of opportunity so it's really not worth it (IMHO). Even though it'll take 3 days to get the results here, I'll definitely go with blood tests from now on. It was much less traumatic for Vixen and much more accurate. Anyway, I know what to expect now for next year so hopefully it'll be much less chaotic in the future!
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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Hawthorne » Tue May 11, 2010 12:36 am

Thank you! Great story, too. At least your "vacation" was extended because of a business expense. (well, i don't know tax law in Croatia, but driving all that way and hotel costs, etc. would be tax deductible here-haha)
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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Sylvaen » Tue May 11, 2010 1:07 am

Hawthorne wrote:Thank you! Great story, too.
Thanks hehe
Hawthorne wrote:At least your "vacation" was extended because of a business expense. (well, i don't know tax law in Croatia, but driving all that way and hotel costs, etc. would be tax deductible here-haha)
I wish!!!! That would be nice... :lol: I ended up spending quite a lot, though we were kindly provided with a place to stay while we were there so that saved us a lot of money... but yes, petrol costs and road tax / tolls really do add up, plus vet consultations, etc. Anyway, I don't think it counts as a business expense as I don't run a professional kennel as a business. Maybe one day when I have a larger house and a few more breeding dogs... but I'd probably never have more than 5 or 6 dogs in total. I'd want to make sure that each one got plenty of attention and any more than that would probably be too much for me to handle.
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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by Blustag » Tue May 11, 2010 11:08 am

In my experience I would go with the swab. I have a friend who does all that sort of work along with scans etc. I always go to her for a swab and she tells me there and then where we are up to. It only costs me £10 which is much cheaper than a vet's blood which cost me £25 I only used the blood once last year (friend on holiday) and was told that my bitch wasnt ready and couldnt tell me when she was. I went home with her and later that day one of the boys got her. I wasnt too worried as was going to mate her anyhow and just thought...vet told me she wasnt ready going by the blood.... guess what!! you guessed it...she got pregnant. lol. It was to the right boy luckily as I had put him in with her...just in case the blood was wrong lol.. and it was! One just can never tell :D

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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Blustag » Tue May 11, 2010 11:09 am

They can do yes.

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Re: Season (in-heat)

Post by RoyAM » Thu May 27, 2010 8:56 am

Its taken 23 days until Dakota has given up interest in Nebraska, when together now, they just play fight rather than other interests. I will give it another week or so before leaving them alone together.



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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by SpiritEcho » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:27 pm

Blustag wrote:
Rahne wrote:I have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about here, could someone explain please :oops:
Canine Brucillosis is an STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease) and can be passed from the male to the female. Once the female gets it she has it for life. SO, if a male were to mate and tie with her then he would become infected too. I had to have a blood test done on my female malamute before being allowed to use a male here in the UK all because she was mated to a male out in Finland a couple of years back. She was tested clear. It is not a problem in the UK but is in Europe.

if your bitch does contract the bruce never let her be a brood bitch it's a very difficult infection to cure even in humans
often it's best and recommended to put them into the forever sleep. dogs and bitches that have had the bruce have been known to carry the infection even after all signs have faded and then it has been passed on to other animals, during some research also family members became infected (that's right Kids it's a Zoonotic disease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brucellosis) the bruce isn't always S.T. and isn't all that common either well not here in Aus anyway

it's a pretty extreme and aggressive bacteria if you do some research on it you will find some pre and post autopsy photos
I did research about 3 years ago concerned one of my dogs had it.

personally if your just concerned about your dog havin a little nookie even if your boy's had his jewels removed then as stated before don't allow it. if you don't like the idea of dog sex at the dinner table keep them out of that area during her estrus. All in all I doubt your dogs are likely to contract a STD unless you allow them to wander, mingle and mate with other dogs especially strays, which would also indicate your irresponsible. if anything I think your at greater risk of your dogs contracting K9 herpes virus this virus is transmitted through the nose when the virus is shedding, known to cause fading puppy syndrome, if your planing to breed, you can save puppies by raising their body temp, as the virus can't survive high temperatures. as the new born pups immune system can not fight the virus and they die, you'd also be required to inform the purchaser of the puppy that the dog is a CHV carrier. Then there are also Sexually Transmissible Tumors this is curable but this is also uncommon and can be nasty in some cases animals die from it.
if either of your dogs have this this or CHV it's recommended to spay your bitch too, if not worry about infection if it happens, you know your dogs and how they usually act and look, if you note changes monitor for deterioration of the dogs condition or changes to skin colour, blemishes on the bitches Vulva or around the opening of the males Prepuce
if your still concerned speak with your vet about STD's and contact transmitted diseases.

a friend of mine has a desexed male and an entire female
they have a blast she practically raped him in her last season.

my cousin has a male and a female dog who experiment every now and again she came home one day and discovered them tied, if any of this is of help good. I wouldn't be too concerned about your dogs mating, it's not unhealthy or abnormal
and your dogs are less likely to contract an STD if your a responsible owner.
If she is to be your brood bitch as Lynn stated have her screened for nasties if your not too sure about her best to have bloods done anyway to check her liver and blood platelets etc. never hurts to have a full panel done so you can use that as a reference to monitor for issues that may arise and it will also tell you if she is healthy enough for breeding.

my sibe only had 3 pups before I got her, she continued to bleed for 15 weeks after whelping; if the people who originally owned her had bloods done first they would have known her liver wasn't all that good and shouldn't have been put in pup.
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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by Rahne » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:19 pm

Thanks for the information :)
I'm still awaiting for Konah to come into heat for the 1st time, she doesn't seem to be in a hurry ;) I will most likely send my male out to family during the 2nd week, think that will be the easiest.

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Re: In heat & castrated male

Post by claireyclaire » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:10 pm

Elska has just turned 1 yr old and just had her first season, I have a 12 yr old castrated male and isn't interested in her in the slightest, however Tala my 2 yr old bitch has spent the last 3 weeks humping her! To start with Elska didn't mind but she won't tolerate it now :oops:
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First Heat Questions

Post by Tropicalbreeze » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:37 am

Aloha from Hawaii,

Our Tamaskan - Cassidy - has just entered her first "heat" cycle. Sniff, sniff, yes our little girl is growing up so fast! ;) She's 8-months in a couple of days.

She is from the May 24 - Sugalba "Pig" litter. You know, the ones with oink, oink themed names...lol... Sugalba "Ham It Up" was her given name.

Anyhow... Questions...

* Any other owners from that litter with females entering heat?

* Generally do Tamaskans have a lot of blood in their first heat? Or does it vary across the board?

* Length of heat? Does it vary for Tamaskans?

Thanks in advance for your help!

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Re: First Heat Questions

Post by Blustag » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:24 pm

Aloha Dave.... yes I hate those pig names too for this lovely breed sniff sniff.. First heats can be as late as 15 months or more we have found. Yes bleeding can be quite profuse which is very annoying and can last quite some time. As a rule 2 weeks or so but I have a girl who goes on for around 5 weeks sometimes. I have also had successful matings on day 5 and also day 29 so watch out guys with your girls ;)

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Re: First Heat Questions

Post by blufawn » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:02 pm

My girl Geri has just come into season today, her litter was born about the same time as the Sugalba litter.

Its very hard to say some have short seasons some VERY long, some have dry seasons when no blood is present, others are so heavy that when they turn around they spray the walls with blood. None of these things are strange or unusual, as long as the blood is light in colour and not clotted or dark (unless it has dried of course) then I would not worry about the length or amount of blood.
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Re: First Heat Questions

Post by Hawthorne » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:52 am

Freyja's heat cycles (two now) have both been heavy and 30 days long. She's due for her 3rd any day now.
We've been very successful in having her wear a cloth dog diaper (with a maxi pad) while she's in the house. She leaves it on no problem. I did work with her starting at 4 months: showed it to her, gave her a treat. Touched her with it, gave her a treat; put it on her, took it off immediately, gave her a treat; put it on for a longer period, took it off, gave her a treat. And on and on... She'll also wear reindeer antlers, a backpack, boots, and halloween costumes no problem. :lol:
The result is we don't have to mop our floors constantly. :D
We also let our dogs up on the couch :o so we don't have to worry about that, either.
When she goes in her crate, I take the diaper off. I just wash her bedding more frequently--although there never seems to be any blood after she has been in the crate. She's rather "attentive" to her behind.
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Cindy's 1st season...

Post by MelB » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:09 pm

it arrived today. :?

After we finished lunch my daughter spotted blood on the floor where Cindy had been lying ready to pounce on any morsels dropped by our toddler son. A quick panic & checking of paws etc. to see if she'd hurt herself on our pre-lunch walk revealed nothing (phew!). A closer inspection revealed her season had arrived. Do I assume this is day one as it's the first sign of blood?

Poor baby is growing up :) and what dreadful timing :roll: she has the last class of her (repeated) puppy foundation on Thursday. We missed the last class of the last course because I forgot what day of the week it was :oops: so she only got an attendance certificate :( then we had to wait 8 weeks for a space in this class.

Between the 2 courses she's covered everything (and extra) so I'm hoping they can pass her rather just give another attendance certificate other wise we'll have to wait another 8 weeks to get a spot in the next class after her season is over.

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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:48 pm

Doh! It always comes at the MOST inconvenient time... doesn't it?! LOL
Hope you can sort out the certification, seems like a real shame if she were to miss out again.
Surely you don't have to repeat the entire class again? Just attend on the final day for the end qualification?
Perhaps you can discuss it with the people running the course and see what they suggest. Depending on the age of the other dogs, it might not be too much of a disruption. For instance, if they are all fairly young pups (under the age of 6 months) then having a bitch in heat shouldn't distract or influence them too much - it only really plays a role if there are intact older (6-9 months+) dogs around, who might not be able to focus on anything but her. :lol:
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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by MelB » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:50 pm

Sylvaen wrote:Perhaps you can discuss it with the people running the course and see what they suggest.
I left a message earlier today just to let them know we wouldn't be there Thursday and they just called back to say that Cindy had passed all the elements already so will get her certificate & rosette after all. :D

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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by Nino » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:04 pm

MelB wrote:
Sylvaen wrote:Perhaps you can discuss it with the people running the course and see what they suggest.
I left a message earlier today just to let them know we wouldn't be there Thursday and they just called back to say that Cindy had passed all the elements already so will get her certificate & rosette after all. :D
Yeay.. congratz :D
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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by Sylvaen » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:44 pm

That's good! Well done! :)
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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by JulieSmith » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:05 pm

That's good, it would have been a pain to have to repeat again.

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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by Amy » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:15 am

That's good! Well done! :)

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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by blufawn » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:50 pm

Well done Cindy....... :) all grown up and a real lady..... Ginger (Geri) is also recently in season and Winni has already been and gone :)
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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by Blustag » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:38 pm

Well done Cindy. Also the girls are not generally a problem when they are in season for the boys except when they are actually ovulating.

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Re: Cindy's 1st season...

Post by muensterland » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:01 pm

Well done Cindy :)
best wishes from Kirsten and Karsten
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I spotted blood this evening...

Post by susann » Wed May 04, 2011 8:45 pm

.. Novas first season :shock: :D

My sweet little princess is growing up!

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Re: I spotted blood this evening...

Post by Rahne » Wed May 04, 2011 8:47 pm

Congrats! :)

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Re: I spotted blood this evening...

Post by HiTenshi16 » Wed May 04, 2011 9:30 pm

Congratulations :D
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Re: I spotted blood this evening...

Post by wicca1 » Wed May 04, 2011 9:48 pm

o'h bless her .

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Re: I spotted blood this evening...

Post by TerriHolt » Wed May 04, 2011 9:49 pm

congratz :P
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Re: I spotted blood this evening...

Post by Sylvaen » Wed May 04, 2011 10:13 pm

Congrats Nova! :D
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Re: I spotted blood this evening...

Post by Nino » Thu May 05, 2011 8:11 am

how old is she now?
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Re: I spotted blood this evening...

Post by susann » Thu May 05, 2011 10:25 am

Nino wrote:how old is she now?
A few days from 1 year!! (14 of may)

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Re: I spotted blood this evening...

Post by Nino » Thu May 05, 2011 10:43 am

susann wrote:
Nino wrote:how old is she now?
A few days from 1 year!! (14 of may)
wow - how nice to wait this long :)

Congratz on your girl getting older ;)
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