FRAUD & DECEPTION by Blustag/Blufawn
- Ciaobella
- Tamtastic (Apprentice)
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
What an absolute MESS. It will take some time for my brain to take this in let alone the TDR and all of the Tam owners & breeders involved. It's crazy what a handful of trusted individuals can do to a breed we care so much about. Although I am not an owner I hope to be one very soon and I have been doing my research and have had suspicions with all three breeders involved but never could I have dreamed up anything like this. I don't even know what to say to this. I just hope it gets straighted out in time.
I do wonder what the fates of Sugalba, Blustag, & Blufawn will be....
I do wonder what the fates of Sugalba, Blustag, & Blufawn will be....
Katurah
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Yes this sounds like a good idea. It would have to be someone who knows about dog registry/breeding though I would think. Does this mean someone that doesn't own a Tam or just a non-breeder?
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- arianwenarie
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I would say a Tamaskan owner who is also a non-breeder. Upon the time when the registry holder decides to go into breeding, then a new registry holder will need to be selected.KRHert wrote:Yes this sounds like a good idea. It would have to be someone who knows about dog registry/breeding though I would think. Does this mean someone that doesn't own a Tam or just a non-breeder?
This may be jumping the gun, but I'd possibly be interested in such a venture. lol.

- Katlin
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I'd love to do it
I don't have a tam yet and it'll be a couple of years before I breed.

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I don't think that its necessary for a third-party to hold the records. I do think that it is necessary that whoever holds the records do so in a way that makes them accessible and proof from adulteration. The Tamaskan Database is a great start on this.
Ben Premack
www.WhiteElkTamaskan.com
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Rhea (Saxon Aquila at White Elk), Sophie (Saxon Canis Venatici at White Elk), and Auri (Blufawn Sunshine on My Shoulders at White Elk)
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Rhea (Saxon Aquila at White Elk), Sophie (Saxon Canis Venatici at White Elk), and Auri (Blufawn Sunshine on My Shoulders at White Elk)
- arianwenarie
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I was thinking that too, but then again, a non-biased party will have to maintain the database...WhiteElkStag wrote:I don't think that its necessary for a third-party to hold the records. I do think that it is necessary that whoever holds the records do so in a way that makes them accessible and proof from adulteration. The Tamaskan Database is a great start on this.
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Non-biased or have checks and balancesarianwenarie wrote:I was thinking that too, but then again, a non-biased party will have to maintain the database...WhiteElkStag wrote:I don't think that its necessary for a third-party to hold the records. I do think that it is necessary that whoever holds the records do so in a way that makes them accessible and proof from adulteration. The Tamaskan Database is a great start on this.
- arianwenarie
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Perhaps a system of checks and balances may be more feasible/easier than finding a non-biased party...?AZDehlin wrote:Non-biased or have checks and balancesarianwenarie wrote:I was thinking that too, but then again, a non-biased party will have to maintain the database...
EDIT:
If there needs to be a group of individuals to maintain the database records, then I would volunteer myself.

- Tiantai
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER


I understand that one litter can be sired by two male dogs but there is NO WAY for TWO dams to naturally give birth to ONE litter.

- TerriHolt
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
maybe the above 2 could share the responsibility? i man it wad said that someone should have a 2nd copy.
edit.. above Lucas lol
edit.. above Lucas lol

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- issylupus
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
There is just so much to digest and try to get an understanding of what's being said with this post and the wolf content post.
I would be interested to hear a responce from the Blustag and Blufawn side regarding what has been announced in this thread.
I would be interested to hear a responce from the Blustag and Blufawn side regarding what has been announced in this thread.

- Gaby
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Yes, some explanation would be nice.issylupus wrote:There is just so much to digest and try to get an understanding of what's being said with this post and the wolf content post.
I would be interested to hear a responce from the Blustag and Blufawn side regarding what has been announced in this thread.
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I'm not really sure what can be expected. There have been countless opportunities for explanation already.Gaby wrote:Yes, some explanation would be nice.issylupus wrote:There is just so much to digest and try to get an understanding of what's being said with this post and the wolf content post.
I would be interested to hear a responce from the Blustag and Blufawn side regarding what has been announced in this thread.


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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I'm not a writer.. just a reader.. but in every topic Blustag/Bluefawn have denied or at least defended them self... why not now?
- Katlin
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I've been wondering that same thing for hourssusann wrote:I'm not a writer.. just a reader.. but in every topic Blustag/Bluefawn have denied or at least defended them self... why not now?

Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I haven't jumped in here yet, but wanted to thank the TDR/Debby for your help in brining this to light and getting it fixed. John was a huge help in assisting me with my questions and concerns on this issue with this litter.
I had for a while been concerned about parentage, but wasn't sure why. As pieces began to not quite fit, I asked to have the DNA parentage test run.
At the end of the day, the truth is out here. We can now correct our pedigrees. I now know who I can breed to with confidence and can finally move forward with finding a female with confidence knowing the truth.
I don't know the reasons why, at this point, don't care. We love Dylan very much. He is who he is. The truth is now out. Thank you.
I had for a while been concerned about parentage, but wasn't sure why. As pieces began to not quite fit, I asked to have the DNA parentage test run.
At the end of the day, the truth is out here. We can now correct our pedigrees. I now know who I can breed to with confidence and can finally move forward with finding a female with confidence knowing the truth.
I don't know the reasons why, at this point, don't care. We love Dylan very much. He is who he is. The truth is now out. Thank you.
Teresa Cutler
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Hi, can I be really thick here? Is the accusation (is that to strong a word?) that Foxy didn't exist? if so does that mean the whole of the 'Fire' litter (I think that is what it was called) didn't exist and were just fabricated to ensure there was a cover story for the back to back breeding of Nevada?
Or is it that 'Foxy' was a real dog but given an accidental mating of Nevada was used to cover that fact. (If it was accidental surely she would not of been used for hr following season?). You see that is what I am struggling with in terms of all of this. I am trying to determine the level of pre mediation by the breeders and then the subsequent damage to the breed as a result. Not to mention the over breeding of poor Nevada. Please don't take this that I am trying to stir this one up. It is just because this for me is the biggest issue out of all of the revelations.
Or is it that 'Foxy' was a real dog but given an accidental mating of Nevada was used to cover that fact. (If it was accidental surely she would not of been used for hr following season?). You see that is what I am struggling with in terms of all of this. I am trying to determine the level of pre mediation by the breeders and then the subsequent damage to the breed as a result. Not to mention the over breeding of poor Nevada. Please don't take this that I am trying to stir this one up. It is just because this for me is the biggest issue out of all of the revelations.
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
arianwenarie wrote:So does this mean that the "Fire" litter in 2007 does not exist? Before the "Forum Friendliness" thread was deleted, I believe I had seen a post made by Jennie regarding the litter information that produce Blustag Fire Fox (Foxy).
I'd say we'll have to wait for Lynn or Jenny to get on to explain that partRahne wrote:The 'Fire' litter does exists. Maybe 'Fire Fox' also exists and her name was misused for this litter OR they made up an extra puppy, as happened with 'Blustag Apache Horse'.

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- arianwenarie
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I believe the issue may be the suspicion that pedigrees were falsified to cover up a back-to-back mating of Nevada. Whether the mating was accidental or not, no one can comment on that but the breeder herself, Blustag.Finn1 wrote:Hi, can I be really thick here? Is the accusation (is that to strong a word?) that Foxy didn't exist? if so does that mean the whole of the 'Fire' litter (I think that is what it was called) didn't exist and were just fabricated to ensure there was a cover story for the back to back breeding of Nevada?
Or is it that 'Foxy' was a real dog but given an accidental mating of Nevada was used to cover that fact. (If it was accidental surely she would not of been used for hr following season?). You see that is what I am struggling with in terms of all of this. I am trying to determine the level of pre mediation by the breeders and then the subsequent damage to the breed as a result. Not to mention the over breeding of poor Nevada. Please don't take this that I am trying to stir this one up. It is just because this for me is the biggest issue out of all of the revelations.
Following the "Sugalba" litter, there was a one year gap between Nevada's next litter, the "States" litter with Skye (repeated mating).
- Ciaobella
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I would also like to hear some type of explanation or apology from the 3 parties involved. It's the least they could do.
Katurah
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
A few replies back...it was asked why Blustag and Blufawn haven't been on to respond to this whole situation.
To me it's damned if they do...damned if they don't in terms of addressing topics. I have a feeling if and when they say something it will never satisfy most people.
Whether you think they're right, wrong, or somewhere in the middle - I wouldn't blame them for being out of the forum for now. In fact, I think Debby or somebody else told me that by choice to calm things down, they're refraining from comments.
Personally, I don't equate this being away as the same as ducking the issue.
As for this litter... My wife and I own one of them. We were promised a nice, healthy, puppy that is good around other dogs and even cats. That's what we got and we'd do it again.
To me it's damned if they do...damned if they don't in terms of addressing topics. I have a feeling if and when they say something it will never satisfy most people.
Whether you think they're right, wrong, or somewhere in the middle - I wouldn't blame them for being out of the forum for now. In fact, I think Debby or somebody else told me that by choice to calm things down, they're refraining from comments.
Personally, I don't equate this being away as the same as ducking the issue.
As for this litter... My wife and I own one of them. We were promised a nice, healthy, puppy that is good around other dogs and even cats. That's what we got and we'd do it again.
- Tarheel
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
The Committee is providing that FACTS and only the Facts at this moment. If is much more important for everyone to have a clear understanding of what evidence has been provided. People may speculate as to the existance of Foxy, a covered up back to back breeding, or whatever. The TDR is trying to get to the whole truth and until other evidence is brought to light we have to stick to what we know and can prove.
1. 2 Pig litter pups DNA showed that Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) was the mother of the Pig Litter and Blustag Little Bear was the sire.
2. Foxy belonged to Alison Lange at the time of mating and was living and working with Blustag at the time the pups were born.
3. The TDR Secretary improperly handled any and all health records that were taken of Foxy. There is no record of BVA Hips, DNA, or microchip information that can be found.
4. Alison and Blustag had a falling out and Alison left Blustag. Alison has refused to answer emails sent by me. Alison has removed certain Committee members from her Facebook page to include Debby and myself.
5. It was reported that Alison re-homed Foxy, but cannot get in touch with the new owner to provide a new sample of DNA from Foxy.
6. The only person that I believe Alison remans in contact with is Jennie.
These are the facts as I know them. If anyone ele has facts, please include them.
1. 2 Pig litter pups DNA showed that Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) was the mother of the Pig Litter and Blustag Little Bear was the sire.
2. Foxy belonged to Alison Lange at the time of mating and was living and working with Blustag at the time the pups were born.
3. The TDR Secretary improperly handled any and all health records that were taken of Foxy. There is no record of BVA Hips, DNA, or microchip information that can be found.
4. Alison and Blustag had a falling out and Alison left Blustag. Alison has refused to answer emails sent by me. Alison has removed certain Committee members from her Facebook page to include Debby and myself.
5. It was reported that Alison re-homed Foxy, but cannot get in touch with the new owner to provide a new sample of DNA from Foxy.
6. The only person that I believe Alison remans in contact with is Jennie.
These are the facts as I know them. If anyone ele has facts, please include them.
John Bannow
Tarheel Tamaskan
Committee of Breeders
Tarheel Tamaskan
Committee of Breeders
- arianwenarie
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Thanks for the clarification, John. In light of the facts presented, do you feel/think that it is a viable option to have all of the Pig Litter dogs go through a parentage test? That is, if all other avenues to see if the "issues"* (see note) surround Blustag Fire Fox (Fox) at Sugalba, the dam on official TDR pedigrees for the Pig Litter cannot be resolved.
*note: Please use this term loosely. This is the best term I could come up with and likely could be a better word to categorize this. My apologize if it has offended anyone.
Thanks.
*note: Please use this term loosely. This is the best term I could come up with and likely could be a better word to categorize this. My apologize if it has offended anyone.
Thanks.
- Tarheel
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I do know that another DNA test is going to be conducted on another pig litter pup. I can see the possiblity of a litter having multiple Sires, but it is not possible that a litter would have multiple Dams. Any more testing of additional Pig litter pups will only back up the evidence already shown. What is needed is DNA of Foxy. If guidelines were followed and records accurately kept, this whole situation would have never got to this level.
John Bannow
Tarheel Tamaskan
Committee of Breeders
Tarheel Tamaskan
Committee of Breeders
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Foxy's DNA is not needed to pinpoint the dam of the Pig litter, isn't it? There is already the evidence that it could be no other than Nevada, or am I wrong? Because I don't think Foxy will ever be found...Tarheel wrote:I do know that another DNA test is going to be conducted on another pig litter pup. I can see the possiblity of a litter having multiple Sires, but it is not possible that a litter would have multiple Dams. Any more testing of additional Pig litter pups will only back up the evidence already shown. What is needed is DNA of Foxy. If guidelines were followed and records accurately kept, this whole situation would have never got to this level.
- Ciaobella
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I am with Gaby on this one. The whole "Foxy" thing is just suspicious to me. The fact that all of her papers "disappeared" and you have no contact with the current owner. Either irresponsibility at its finest or (what a suspect) a hoax.Gaby wrote:Foxy's DNA is not needed to pinpoint the dam of the Pig litter, isn't it? There is already the evidence that it could be no other than Nevada, or am I wrong? Because I don't think Foxy will ever be found...Tarheel wrote:I do know that another DNA test is going to be conducted on another pig litter pup. I can see the possiblity of a litter having multiple Sires, but it is not possible that a litter would have multiple Dams. Any more testing of additional Pig litter pups will only back up the evidence already shown. What is needed is DNA of Foxy. If guidelines were followed and records accurately kept, this whole situation would have never got to this level.
Katurah
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
For now I am still open to the possibility that the mysterious bitch exists even though she has already been proven not to be the true mother of that second litter and that her disappearance was based primarily off some horrible bad book-keeping. It's still a mystery to me as well but I do hope that the case is solved ASAP and that the current owner (whoever they are) can give us more info.

- Tarheel
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
All registered dogs have their registry paperwork that the owner holds with the dog. When a dog is re-homed the back of the regitration is supposed to be filled out showing transfer of ownership and sent back to the TDR for a new Registration to be issued with the new owner listed. This did not happen either.
Lucas, Wording is everything As you wrote "Even though she has already proven not to be the true mother of that second litter..."
What scientific testing has proven with a 99.9% degree of certainty is that Nevada is the mother. Nowhere has any tests been recieved that excluded Foxy as the mother.
We have proof that Nevada is the mother.
We do not have proof one way or the other on Foxy.
Lucas, Wording is everything As you wrote "Even though she has already proven not to be the true mother of that second litter..."
What scientific testing has proven with a 99.9% degree of certainty is that Nevada is the mother. Nowhere has any tests been recieved that excluded Foxy as the mother.
We have proof that Nevada is the mother.
We do not have proof one way or the other on Foxy.
John Bannow
Tarheel Tamaskan
Committee of Breeders
Tarheel Tamaskan
Committee of Breeders
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
The dog might exist, but she might not .. either is likely, it might be a dog that is owned by someone not in the community and never owned by sugalba.
All that we know is that Nevada is the dam of said litter, in this conclusion Foxy is not really that important anymore.
I would still like an explanation from the involved though..
All that we know is that Nevada is the dam of said litter, in this conclusion Foxy is not really that important anymore.
I would still like an explanation from the involved though..
>> Nino <<


- Katlin
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
fangjingtuanlucas wrote:For now I am still open to the possibility that the mysterious bitch exists even though she has already been proven not to be the true mother of that second litter and that her disappearance was based primarily off some horrible bad book-keeping. It's still a mystery to me as well but I do hope that the case is solved ASAP and that the current owner (whoever they are) can give us more info.

- arianwenarie
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I do think that there are three separate issues here that need addressing and will be done so in due time:
1) Is Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) the dam of the "Sugalba" Pigs Litter? If so, to fully prove it, I feel all dogs from this litter need to have a parentage analysis done to fully remove any doubt, despite speculations and other strong evidence. That is, if Blustag Fire Fox (Foxy) at Sugalba cannot be located to do a cross-comparison.
2) If Blustag Fire Fox exists, is she the same one referenced as the dam of the "Sugalba" Pigs Litter? If she is the same one claimed to be the dam of this litter, where was she at the time of whelping and nursing as well as subsequently. Who was she rehomed with and how can a TDR rep contact the new owner to obtain a DNA sample? In addition to that, if her health records (required breeding criteria) are available, then official copies should be given to the TDR Committee members as well.
3) If it has been proven that Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) is the dam of Sugalba Pigs Might Fly (Dylan) at Moondance, then the Hawthorne Yellowstone litter owners must be provided with accurate pedigree documents as well as subsequent Sugalba Pig Litter dogs that have tested as such.
1) Is Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) the dam of the "Sugalba" Pigs Litter? If so, to fully prove it, I feel all dogs from this litter need to have a parentage analysis done to fully remove any doubt, despite speculations and other strong evidence. That is, if Blustag Fire Fox (Foxy) at Sugalba cannot be located to do a cross-comparison.
2) If Blustag Fire Fox exists, is she the same one referenced as the dam of the "Sugalba" Pigs Litter? If she is the same one claimed to be the dam of this litter, where was she at the time of whelping and nursing as well as subsequently. Who was she rehomed with and how can a TDR rep contact the new owner to obtain a DNA sample? In addition to that, if her health records (required breeding criteria) are available, then official copies should be given to the TDR Committee members as well.
3) If it has been proven that Blustag Bindaree (Nevada) is the dam of Sugalba Pigs Might Fly (Dylan) at Moondance, then the Hawthorne Yellowstone litter owners must be provided with accurate pedigree documents as well as subsequent Sugalba Pig Litter dogs that have tested as such.
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I think he's talking about the 'does Foxy exist or not' issue, and seeing as Jennie is the only one (correct me if I'm wrong) who is still in contact with Sugalba we'll have to wait for one of them to get onit is solved. The mother of the litter is Nevada, as stated dozens of times before.

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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Yes. And this is really all that matters. This way I can now truly look for a mate for Dylan and be sure that the bitch I select for him is the right one. It also reasurres me that I know who he is a match for in the USA as a stud dog.Katlin wrote:it is solved. The mother of the litter is Nevada, as stated dozens of times before.
At the end of they day, this is what matters. He is healthy, happy, and we love him. We can all now move on.
Dylan's offspring have been notified so those with intentions of breeding are aware as well. Forward progress.
Teresa Cutler
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary
- Tiantai
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Sorry I did do a bad wording. I meant to say that Nevada is the mother of the litter and not Foxy.Tarheel wrote:All registered dogs have their registry paperwork that the owner holds with the dog. When a dog is re-homed the back of the regitration is supposed to be filled out showing transfer of ownership and sent back to the TDR for a new Registration to be issued with the new owner listed. This did not happen either.
Lucas, Wording is everything As you wrote "Even though she has already proven not to be the true mother of that second litter..."
What scientific testing has proven with a 99.9% degree of certainty is that Nevada is the mother. Nowhere has any tests been recieved that excluded Foxy as the mother.
We have proof that Nevada is the mother.
We do not have proof one way or the other on Foxy.

Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I agree completely and my Max's Daddy is Dylan (who's Mom was in question until recently) and I know my boy's Mom is, Frejya, and we wouldn't change a thing - thank you Teresa. More importantly, Max and I get to meet his Daddy at the US club show next week!!TeresaC wrote:Yes. And this is really all that matters. This way I can now truly look for a mate for Dylan and be sure that the bitch I select for him is the right one. It also reasurres me that I know who he is a match for in the USA as a stud dog.Katlin wrote:it is solved. The mother of the litter is Nevada, as stated dozens of times before.
At the end of they day, this is what matters. He is healthy, happy, and we love him. We can all now move on.
Dylan's offspring have been notified so those with intentions of breeding are aware as well. Forward progress.

- Tiantai
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I wonder if Dylan and Max act similar in anyways. If so you can take a photo of them doing something identical and label "like father like son"Dottie wrote:
I agree completely and my Max's Daddy is Dylan (who's Mom was in question until recently) and I know my boy's Mom is, Frejya, and we wouldn't change a thing - thank you Teresa. More importantly, Max and I get to meet his Daddy at the US club show next week!!

Re: SUGALBA LITTER
fangjingtuanlucas wrote:I wonder if Dylan and Max act similar in anyways. If so you can take a photo of them doing something identical and label "like father like son"Dottie wrote:
I agree completely and my Max's Daddy is Dylan (who's Mom was in question until recently) and I know my boy's Mom is, Frejya, and we wouldn't change a thing - thank you Teresa. More importantly, Max and I get to meet his Daddy at the US club show next week!!
I can't wait to see them side-by-side. I've seen so many picts of Dyland he Max looks so much like him. As I have been with Freyja a couple time, I have also seen her temperament in Max.
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I just told Teresa last night that it would be fun to try and get a group photo of the pups, Freyja and Dylan all together. "Family reunion!"
(cheese!!!)

Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com
bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com
bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Or cheeseyHawthorne wrote:I just told Teresa last night that it would be fun to try and get a group photo of the pups, Freyja and Dylan all together. "Family reunion!"(cheese!!!)

Dottie I am looking forward to meeting you and Max. Regardless of who Dylan's mother is on paper, he is a beautiful boy even if he is a bed hog! Must be why they are the pig litter...
Teresa Cutler
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary
Moondance Tamaskan, Wisconsin
US Tamaskan Dog Club, Secretary
- Tiantai
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
So far I remember seeing on facebook (though now deleted), they wrote that Sugalba will be coming forward to explain what had happened to Foxy. But I haven't seen any post from them. 


Re: SUGALBA LITTER
and I doubt you'll see any. Seeing as they just said that they won't talk about it on fb anymore.fangjingtuanlucas wrote:So far I remember seeing on facebook (though now deleted), they wrote that Sugalba will be coming forward to explain what had happened to Foxy. But I haven't seen any post from them.
You'd have to mail them to get an answer, and even then I'd say you probably won't get one.

Men who consistently leave the toilet seat up secretly want women to get up to go the bathroom in the middle of the night and fall in
- TerriHolt
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Dallas wrote:and I doubt you'll see any. Seeing as they just said that they won't talk about it on fb anymore.fangjingtuanlucas wrote:So far I remember seeing on facebook (though now deleted), they wrote that Sugalba will be coming forward to explain what had happened to Foxy. But I haven't seen any post from them.
You'd have to mail them to get an answer, and even then I'd say you probably won't get one.
You can mail them till you go blue... they will say you faked it

You know, when i have proof of something... I can't wait to share it with the world... Not hide it.

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.
The wolf that wins? The one you feed!
~ Cherokee Proverb
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.
~ Albert Einstein
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
They also said you should write the TDR Committee - and thereby I assume they mean Lynn and/or Jennie and you will get nothing from doing that, as usual..Dallas wrote:and I doubt you'll see any. Seeing as they just said that they won't talk about it on fb anymore.fangjingtuanlucas wrote:So far I remember seeing on facebook (though now deleted), they wrote that Sugalba will be coming forward to explain what had happened to Foxy. But I haven't seen any post from them.
You'd have to mail them to get an answer, and even then I'd say you probably won't get one.
>> Nino <<


- TerriHolt
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Understanding of why Regi was so frustrated is setting inNino wrote:They also said you should write the TDR Committee - and thereby I assume they mean Lynn and/or Jennie and you will get nothing from doing that, as usual..Dallas wrote:and I doubt you'll see any. Seeing as they just said that they won't talk about it on fb anymore.fangjingtuanlucas wrote:So far I remember seeing on facebook (though now deleted), they wrote that Sugalba will be coming forward to explain what had happened to Foxy. But I haven't seen any post from them.
You'd have to mail them to get an answer, and even then I'd say you probably won't get one.


There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.
The wolf that wins? The one you feed!
~ Cherokee Proverb
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.
~ Albert Einstein
- Tiantai
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- Location: Canada (North York, Ontario)
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I agree, I've lost the trust I once had to them as well after all this. Just look what was written after taking off the post about Sugalba.
Didn't screenshot the deleted post but most of you've already seen it anyways so it doesn't matter.
Way to chicken out!Please do not clutter this page with politics. This page is for owners and breeders of Tamaskan to post photographs. If you have any issues or questions then please direct them to the TDR under private email at tamaskan.register@yahoo.com
Thank you

Didn't screenshot the deleted post but most of you've already seen it anyways so it doesn't matter.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: SUGALBA LITTER
seen it
and liked Ninos post about them starting the whole Sugalba thing on their page
and liked Ninos post about them starting the whole Sugalba thing on their page
Men who consistently leave the toilet seat up secretly want women to get up to go the bathroom in the middle of the night and fall in
Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Saw it.. doesn't change the fact that they brought up Sugalba themselves 

>> Nino <<


- TerriHolt
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
I have a screenie of that oneDallas wrote:seen it
and liked Ninos post about them starting the whole Sugalba thing on their page



There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.
The wolf that wins? The one you feed!
~ Cherokee Proverb
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.
~ Albert Einstein
- Nahani
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Re: SUGALBA LITTER
Seeing as Sugalba is Jennie's best friend also I find it hard to believe they have no idea where this dog Foxy is...like has been said before...if she ever really existed anyway.
