Separation anxiety

All topics pertaining to agility, obedience, sled racing, search & rescue, therapy training, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Booma
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:59 am
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Separation anxiety

Post by Booma » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:22 am

Found this article on SA. Thought people may want to have a read.

http://dogtime.com/separation-anxiety.html
Image Image

User avatar
AZDehlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan, USA (for now)
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by AZDehlin » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:33 am

Thanks for sharing... Zephyr defiantly has separation anxiety

juice
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: scotland uk

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by juice » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:38 am

lexi has severe seperation anxiety and has to be sedadted but she is improving and we have reduced the drug by half now. i can't wait for the day i can leave her out of her crate with the other dogs, one day.
have you had to put zephyr back in his crate, i thought he was doing good.

User avatar
AZDehlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan, USA (for now)
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by AZDehlin » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:35 pm

juice wrote:lexi has severe seperation anxiety and has to be sedadted but she is improving and we have reduced the drug by half now. i can't wait for the day i can leave her out of her crate with the other dogs, one day.
have you had to put zephyr back in his crate, i thought he was doing good.
Nope he has been without a crate in the house for a week... He howls a bit but everything else has stopped. The crate is now in my new car since he destroyed the gate to keep him in the back seat.

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:07 pm

I think my vet gave me a link to that... gave a few things to try (and fail, stubborn dog :lol: ).
AZDehlin wrote:Nope he has been without a crate in the house for a week
Wow... yay zephyr!

Sam has SA but i've never crated him. Well, saying never, i tried when he first came home but he would poop and pee in it which resulted in him needing a bath which he has also scared of from the very beginning so crating wasn't an option... I just pushed stuff to the back of work tops until he grew then i had to move everything out of reach (which was tricky in an open plan house, no safe rooms)..
He barks, howls and poops when no one is in and if there is anything in reach, he will chew. He has pulled up and chewed the lino around the doors in my new house (hoping new landlord doesn't want to come for inspection) and scratched all the paint trying to dig through the door and windowsill.

Still hoping he will grow out of it :?
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

Finn1
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: kent

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Finn1 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:21 am

We are doing ok with Finn at the moment. He does have a crate which really has become his place. He takes himself off to bed now so we are really pleased. We can leave him up to 3.5 hours but he has to of had a good walk or play first otherwise he cries and gets upset, if he gets upset he messes which upsets him more. We cannot leave him on his own for long out of the crate, he would destroy things, he can reach up onto kitchen work surface now so nothing is safe!!! Yesterday he was found in the garden with a whole chorizo sausage, still in the wrapper.:).

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Nino » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:50 pm

Sølve goes to bed herself.. She will go to my parents bedroom and lie on her matress, if the door is closed she will even open it around 9-10 o' clock haha :D
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
Gaby
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:08 am
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Gaby » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:46 pm

Thank you for the article. It is a very difficult problem, which I would like to see reduced in the breed and it is something to think about when choosing a partner for your dog regarding breeding.

It took a while to teach Mila to be alone (with or other dog), but she does very well now home alone. I tried a crate but that did not work for her. She was destroying things for quite a while, but she stopped with that. I do leave things to chew on and stuff to play with in the room when I leave. I also devided the room in two areas with a fence, so she can't start on the couch or the plants. :lol: But I think it will soon be time to get rid of the fence, since she didn't destroy anything for a few months now. I do have to walk her before I leave her alone, I think she would still be destroying things if I didn't.

Nice to hear about the progress some dogs are making! Keep up the good work, though it is hard sometimes. ;)

User avatar
Nino
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3106
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:13 am
Location: Aalborg - Denmark

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Nino » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:53 pm

I crated Sølve till around a year ago (a little less) then we moved and she was stopped being crated, she never destroyed anything, but I have a feeling that she is walking around a lot, I did ask the neighbours if she was howling but it seems not.
She does have accidents, however not every time, and she will not eat when home alone..
>> Nino <<
Image

User avatar
Mario312
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:55 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Mario312 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:09 pm

Roma seems to have some form of separation anxiety, she's almost 6 months. It's one of my only problems with her. Even if I am in a room with the door closed she will sit by the door and whine. I've tried a lot of different techniques with her. At this point she is rarely crated because usually someone is with her. However, there are times she has to be crated a few hours here and there. She is perfect at night. She sleeps next to my bed, un-crated, and has no accidents. She never has accidents in the crate either, but sometimes will have an accident in the house if I leave her loose while I'm showering or getting ready. I just started noticing her chewing a couple items, but that doesn't seem to be a big problem. I'm hoping to prevent this from getting worse.

User avatar
Gaby
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:08 am
Location: Groningen, the Netherlands

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Gaby » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:32 pm

Mario312 wrote:Roma seems to have some form of separation anxiety, she's almost 6 months. It's one of my only problems with her. Even if I am in a room with the door closed she will sit by the door and whine. I've tried a lot of different techniques with her. At this point she is rarely crated because usually someone is with her. However, there are times she has to be crated a few hours here and there. She is perfect at night. She sleeps next to my bed, un-crated, and has no accidents. She never has accidents in the crate either, but sometimes will have an accident in the house if I leave her loose while I'm showering or getting ready. I just started noticing her chewing a couple items, but that doesn't seem to be a big problem. I'm hoping to prevent this from getting worse.
We had Mila sleeping by our bed untill she was almost 6 months, but it did help to let her sleep in the room, not with us anymore. I put her in a crate and moved it every night a bit further away with the doors open, only a few centimeters untill she was at the door of the room. Then I let her sleep in the room with the door closed, but not crated so she could lay in the dogbed with our other dog. Her separation anxiety got less because she wasn't with us all the time any more. We do have an other dog, so that was in our advantage, but I hope something like that will work for you too.

User avatar
Hawthorne
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Pennsylvania | USA
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Hawthorne » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:18 pm

A good protocol for treating and reversing separation anxiety can be found in Patricia McConnell's book: I'll Be Home Soon:

Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:04 pm

Hawthorne wrote:A good protocol for treating and reversing separation anxiety can be found in Patricia McConnell's book: I'll Be Home Soon:

Thanks... I sooooooo need to buy that :D
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

User avatar
Ayame8656
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:10 am
Location: Kiruna

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Ayame8656 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:21 pm

Loke also has SA, but it seems to appear only when me or Tom leave. Sometimes it is fine and he stays calm, especially if my sisters husky is nearby. But sometimes he starts whine, run around in the house and can be a bit destructive. If we leave him with my mother for example, he can still be stressed. He runs around, "climbing" on the doors or following her, jumping on to her or if she sits down, he wants to sit in her lap. It's not very easy for her because he weighs 30kg. :roll: Any idea why he does so only when we're leaving even though he sometimes has company? :?

User avatar
HiTenshi16
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Princeton, TX US
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by HiTenshi16 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:05 am

Ayame8656 wrote:Loke also has SA, but it seems to appear only when me or Tom leave. Sometimes it is fine and he stays calm, especially if my sisters husky is nearby. But sometimes he starts whine, run around in the house and can be a bit destructive. If we leave him with my mother for example, he can still be stressed. He runs around, "climbing" on the doors or following her, jumping on to her or if she sits down, he wants to sit in her lap. It's not very easy for her because he weighs 30kg. :roll: Any idea why he does so only when we're leaving even though he sometimes has company? :?
I'm sure it is because he is more attached to you and Tom than your mother. Our German Shepherd mix, Rukia, has terrible separation anxiety, but only for my husband. As soon as he leaves, she starts whining, will pace, and will try to sneak off to go pee on something (our bed, couch, clothes that was left on the floor). She couldn't care less if I or even Ulric were gone.
When either of you come back home, how do you greet him?
Image

User avatar
motherwolf
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:43 am
Location: United States (indiana)
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by motherwolf » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:36 am

ive found having siblings has made this issue nonexistent for me... the only time they do act out is when they are seperate FROM EACHOTHER lol i have to get a good sized outdoor kennel soon and put it in their bedroom because theyre guna outgrow being able to sleep in any size crate i could buy lol right now they share a great dane sized crate and since they can both move around and play im not going to press the issue of making them sleep seperately because the last time i attempted that, anubis bent the crate metal inward trying to get to lykan so we just moved up a crate size and continued sleeping them together.... theyve been together since birth and keep eachother happy and entertained so i cant complain. kinda sad though, when i think logically one will pass before the other and me and the remaining ol' guy will be mourning together :/

User avatar
Hawthorne
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Pennsylvania | USA
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Hawthorne » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:48 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:Our German Shepherd mix, Rukia, has terrible separation anxiety, but only for my husband. As soon as he leaves, she starts whining, will pace, and will try to sneak off to go pee on something (our bed, couch, clothes that was left on the floor). She couldn't care less if I or even Ulric were gone.
HiTenshi who is the main "caretaker for Rukia? Just out of curiosity if it's you or your husband. Who walks her mostly? Feeds her? Does the training? I'm just curious if there's a link between who the main caregiver is and who the dog has separation anxiety with. Ben almost exclusively walks Darwin now, and I walk Freyja and Raven. As soon as Ben goes somewhere, Darwin paces back and forth.
Tracy Graziano
http://www.hawthornetamaskan.com

bark as if no one can hear you
catch the ball on the fly
lick like there's no end to kissing
sleep on a sofa nearby
jump like the sky is the limit
sit by the fire with friends
stay with the ones who love you
run like the road never ends

User avatar
HiTenshi16
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Princeton, TX US
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by HiTenshi16 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:53 pm

My husband is the main caretaker for Rukia, he does most everything with her so I'm not surprised as to why she is so attached to him.
Image

User avatar
AZDehlin
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:52 am
Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan, USA (for now)
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by AZDehlin » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:57 am

I thought Zephyr was doing so good... he went a whole two months without needing to be in a crate. Recently he has started peeing all over everytime he is left even though he gets a long walk before he is left by himself. He has peed in the living room, kitchen, bathroom, on his bed, on my couch, and on my bed. I don't know why he has started doing this he only had two accidents as a puppy and now if I leave him out of the crate he does this all over the house.

juice
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: scotland uk

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by juice » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:22 am

oh no thats not good looks like the crate will be back. we had started to leave lexi out with dylan in the kitchen 3 weeks ago, 1st week 30mil acp and small chewing on bottom of architrave on door, 40 mins no drugs perfect, 2nd week 20mil acp lots of scratching and chewing of the door lexi started it then dylan joined in (videod them), 3rd week back to 30mil acp and she ripped the architrave off chewed it up and started on the wall. she will be back in the crate this week as we don't want dylan doing the same as her, he has a treat ball which he adores as he is a little piggy and he loves chasing it around so hope that he will not suffer like she does. good luck with zephyr i know how it feels i just wish they would understand that we always come home to them, they are silly you would have thought they would have learnt this by now as they are only 6 weeks apart and lexi is 15 months now. :roll: :D

User avatar
Canadia
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:16 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Canadia » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:04 pm

Finch had a bit of a relapse but he does really well on his own when he has another dog with him - it's been best when my sister's female Newf, who is still young and ready to play, is with him. I know this goes against of a lot of the advice surrounding SA so it might just be that I got lucky - but it couldn't hurt to "borrow" a friend's dog and see how it goes. Now I'm planning on bringing a female dog (preferably another tam) into our home - I've been waiting on Finch to make a full recovery and, as it turns out, this will help - it's just a matter of taking steps to make sure she is secure on her own so I don't end up with 2 dogs with SA!

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:58 pm

Canadia wrote:I know this goes against of a lot of the advice surrounding SA so it might just be that I got lucky - but it couldn't hurt to "borrow" a friend's dog and see how it goes. Now I'm planning on bringing a female dog (preferably another tam) into our home - I've been waiting on Finch to make a full recovery and, as it turns out, this will help - it's just a matter of taking steps to make sure she is secure on her own so I don't end up with 2 dogs with SA!
I'm trying to save the funds for another tam... I've been told with sam having SA that the opposite sex is better if i decide to do that (altho not recommended)... Another male cold copy him (not sure how true this is, i've never heard of it...).
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

juice
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: scotland uk

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by juice » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:12 am

thats good news terri. i have never heard of that but they say its better to have one of each sex if your dog has any issues as will save any rivalry between them. it's a shame you didn't see alaska before me or you could of gotten her it would of just cost the fuel to scotland to get her. we are still having a couple of issues with her atm but hopefully she will soon learn the pack rules :D

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:34 pm

Yeah it is :lol: Can i ask why she was rehomed? Sorry if i missed it somewhere :oops: :D
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

juice
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: scotland uk

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by juice » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:33 am

the people had 4 kids (boys) the youngest being 5 months (same as alaska) and they think he is allergic to cats and dogs. also she said she didn't have the time to give to the dog with having such a young baby. their loss my gain :D , she has settled really well atm and i think she will blossom into a lovely dog. i will keep you in mind if things go wrong, but i don't think they will sorry. i wish you luck in saving for your next one and be warned they really are addictive ;) :D .

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:40 pm

I'm sure things won't go wrong, she sounds lovely and i'm pleased she is settling in well... I'll have one eventually... and then another and another :D (but shhh, my other half doesn't know that bit yet :D ).
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

User avatar
akaye531
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:04 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by akaye531 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:17 am

Those of you who have Tams (or other dogs) with separation anxiety, at what age did your pup start showing symptoms? Mowgli hated his crate and would cry in there for a while, but it didn't seem to be related to us being away. He now loves his crate and was doing really well for a month or so, but we moved a few weeks ago and he now seems to be having trouble being away from us. He will often cry in the morning, but stop when he begins hearing us stir or when we get downstairs. I would keep him upstairs in the bedroom with us, but we are currently living in a friend's vacant town home and she doesn't want to pup on the carpets upstairs. When we get home from being out, about half the time we hear him crying from the garage, but he'll settle down after a few minutes once he sees we're home.

We're going to be moving again in a month or so once we find a more permanent place to live. I know these moves must be stressful for him (and for us too - this was completely unforeseen), and I want to try to make these transitions as easy for him as possible. I really hope he doesn't develop a bad case of SA, and am wondering if anyone has any early intervention tips.

User avatar
akaye531
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:04 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by akaye531 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:43 am

A few more details...

When we were in our old condo, he was not sleeping in our room and we had gotten to a point where he wasn't crying to be let out in the morning, and he didn't cry to be let out of his crate when we got home. He is 4 months old now, and gets 3-4 walks daily. We've also been taking him to the dog park for 25 minutes or so about 3 times a week. He is teething, and has plenty of appropriate things to chew on. On days where my boyfriend does not work from home, someone comes in the middle of the afternoon to take him out, feed, and play with him - he's never in the crate for more than 4 hours at a time.

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by arianwenarie » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:39 am

ayake, just out of curiosity, do you leave a radio on (a talk show or a station that plays classical music all day) when Mowgli is at home alone?

If not, then I'd try that out - probably a talk show station - and see if that helps him any. I know some dogs are calmer if the radio is set up right against the side of their crate or on top so that they can feel the vibrations (this works for deaf dogs). Apparently, the noise is soothing for them.

You could also try using calming oil blends on him - start using it in regular non-stressful situations so that he associates the smell of the oil = calm (nothing to be stressed out about). Once he gets used to it, you can start putting it on before you leave. I'd recommend My Peaceful Paws over DAP or Rescue Remedy; a good friend of mine uses My Peaceful Paws and heck, I use it on myself too! :)

If he's in a wire crate, you could also try to put a darker sheet over the crate to create a den-like feeling - may make him feel safer.

User avatar
akaye531
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:04 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by akaye531 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:30 am

We do usually leave the TV on when we leave. He is in a wire crate, but we do keep it covered on 3 sides with a blanket. It's pretty cozy in there and he willingly goes in for naps and to chew on his toys, so I think he likes it!

I will try the oils and see if that works. Thanks for the suggestions!

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:03 pm

akaye531 wrote:Those of you who have Tams (or other dogs) with separation anxiety, at what age did your pup start showing symptoms?

Sam has howled from the first time i left him to present day... He has also pooped in the house every time he was left until last march.

I think now tho, it is only a mild form of SA, starts drooling when i get ready to leave, looks out the window till i'm gone with strings of drool sticking to the window... But since march, he hasn't pooped inside the house so i tried moving him into the livingroom to see if that would stop the noise. It didn't help but it did allow for recording him. He will play with his ball that drops kibble treats for 7 minutes then he will howl non stop till i come home. My trainer says that it seem's like the SA has gone from extreme (pooping, destroying, digging, howling when alone) to fairly mild crossed with boredom. He is still not interested in stuff left for him except that treat ball but it is great progress.
I told her of my plans to get another dog and she thinks it may help with the boredom and could stop the howling altogether if handled correctly.
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

User avatar
Booma
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:59 am
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Booma » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:34 pm

Try not letting him see you get ready. Put him outside or in another room. Watching you go through your leaving routine will get him all worked up.
Image Image

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:29 pm

He won't be separated in the house. I did that as my trainer instructed and he made his paw bleed at the claw bed trying to dig through he door.

:lol: , you must think i'm been really difficult having an answer for everything with this and the off leash thing... But i really have tried everything (really not trying to be difficult... honest :D )...
Except, the only thing i haven't got is someones dog to borrow to see if having another dog for company would help. My grandmas border terrier is dog aggressive, my aunty has just had her boxer pts because his brain tumor came back after having it removed once and my cousins choc lab is a female rebble while left alone and would do more damage than sam... That's about the extent of my doggy people...

Edit: What i was thinking about doing was, investing in a ustream account and some long range walkie talkies... So i can drive away as i always do and hide round the corner and watch him on my mobile and every time he howl's do my "DAH!" (it was AH! but i one had to AH! around a mouth full of food and DAH! seem'd to be more effective) down the walkie talkie... I'm just not sure if it would make him worse, wreck the house looking for me since he can hear me or work... Obviously i'd prefer it to work lol...
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

User avatar
Tiantai
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 2558
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:16 pm
Location: Canada (North York, Ontario)

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Tiantai » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:08 pm

TerriHolt wrote: I did that as my trainer instructed and he made his paw bleed at the claw bed trying to dig through he door.
:shock:
Image

User avatar
Booma
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:59 am
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Booma » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:37 pm

Have you talked to the vet about medication?
I've organised a few doggy play dates for balto from a gumtree add and one from another dog forum.
One thing you can do if put them in boarding. It can be very tricky though. You have to make sure they are in long enough or else it can make it worse. Is he ok if there is another person in the house or is it just you he cares about?
Image Image

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:15 am

Kylievr wrote:Have you talked to the vet about medication?
I've organised a few doggy play dates for balto from a gumtree add and one from another dog forum.
One thing you can do if put them in boarding. It can be very tricky though. You have to make sure they are in long enough or else it can make it worse. Is he ok if there is another person in the house or is it just you he cares about?
When my partner 'doggy sits' when i go out (poor guy never gets to go anywhere lol) sam is always up and down at the window, won't listen to any commands and jumps up on my partner while 'woo oooo' ing as if he wants to go out so my partner takes him out but then comes back in again. He's just restless... Awesome greeting when i come home tho, feel very wanted...

I asked the vet about medication an they said they don't like to use it because medicating the problem doesn't help and referred me to a trainer... After trying my walkie talkie idea i'm going to go back and explore that option because i have since changed vets.

I wouldn't leave him in boarding, he hates been locked up and to be honest, i've never been comfortable with the idea (which is why i never go on holiday).
I want to get him fixed (i think it will help with my other problem, AKA recall) but it's the fact i have to leave him thats stopped me doing it...
They will only allow me to be there while he goes to sleep, they won't let me be there when he wakes up. He will be awake for 2 hours before they will let me come for him and i'm so worried about what could happen in those 2 hours... I've known the nicest of dogs turn out of fear, then he will be labeled aggressive just because he was scared... He's not too great with strangers lately (bad experience at my old vets last may), i'm usually his 'hide behind' when things get too much for him... What would he do without his 'hide behind' if things in the crate with all the other crying animals, vets taking temp get too much?

Could getting him fixed help with SA? Anyone know? He's been done anyway so it's not a question of that but if it will help him there's no sense in prolonging it...
My trainer mentioned it may have been a helping factor with other SA cases she's had but i can't find anything to support this.

I have never had a dog where i'm this stuck before... I feel bad for him that he gets so bothered, i feel bad for my partner always stuck in to stop him howling and i feel bad for my kids never been able to go anywhere during school holidays...

But, he's only 2... we'll get there eventually...
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

juice
Tamific (Novice)
Tamific (Novice)
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: scotland uk

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by juice » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:18 am

terri sad to hear you are still having problems with s/a. as i have said in the past lexi had severe s/a and my vet prescribed acp for her. she was on a high dose to start with but i am pleased to say that she is off of all medication now, it has taken around a year to get to this stage but we have got there. i dont feel bad that we went down this route as she and we are all able to get on with our lives happily now. she can be left for about 6 hours quite happily which is great. i have never heard of getting dogs neutered to help with s/a but i am no expert lol. i have also heard that it may not work on recall with all dogs but i have seen it work with a spinone that used to keep his owners waiting for hours until he decided it was time to go home lol. good luck with whatever you decide to try next but i would reccomend the sedation to see how it works for sam. :D

User avatar
HiTenshi16
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 4802
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: Princeton, TX US
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by HiTenshi16 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:04 pm

I'm sure having a dog neutured or spayed does not effect them having separation anxiety. Our 4 year old Shepherd mix, Rukia, has severe separation anxiety from my husband and she was spayed at 6 months old. Hers did not start till he was gone for a week from being in the hospital, home for 3 months, and then when he started going back to work, it started showing (2 years old at the time). While he is gone, she acts depressed, does not want to play, if not gotten her walk and I'm not home to keep an eye on her, she will poo in our dining room, and if she has access while I'm home, she will sneak off into the bedroom and pee on our bed!
It irritates me because she is so attatched to him, he calls it loyalty and comments how Ulric and Zelda are not loyal like she is. I come home, I get a tail wag from her, he comes home, she is jumping all feet off the ground, barking, whining, at one point I swear she was shaking too while acting like a mad dog greeting him.
Image

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:02 pm

HiTenshi16 wrote:It irritates me because she is so attatched to him, he calls it loyalty
I think that's a shepherd thing... My GSD got an attachment to me like that but she couldn't have cared less about anyone else in the house... I've heard that happens a lot with any shepherd, they are a 1 person dog.
HiTenshi16 wrote:and comments how Ulric and Zelda are not loyal like she is
he should be pleased they are family dogs :lol: and at lease they won't have SA when you are not around, Rukia must be feeling pretty low while he's not in... For me, that would over rule the loyalty because i want a dog that's happy not sad because i'm not there.
juice wrote:terri sad to hear you are still having problems with s/a. as i have said in the past lexi had severe s/a and my vet prescribed acp for her. she was on a high dose to start with but i am pleased to say that she is off of all medication now, it has taken around a year to get to this stage but we have got there. i dont feel bad that we went down this route as she and we are all able to get on with our lives happily now. she can be left for about 6 hours quite happily which is great. i have never heard of getting dogs neutered to help with s/a but i am no expert lol. i have also heard that it may not work on recall with all dogs but i have seen it work with a spinone that used to keep his owners waiting for hours until he decided it was time to go home lol. good luck with whatever you decide to try next but i would reccomend the sedation to see how it works for sam. :D
I'm going to talk with my new vet about it. I've changed vets since i last asked so i'm hoping they will be more willing to help.
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

User avatar
arianwenarie
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm
Location: USA

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by arianwenarie » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:01 am

TerriHolt wrote: I have never had a dog where i'm this stuck before... I feel bad for him that he gets so bothered, i feel bad for my partner always stuck in to stop him howling and i feel bad for my kids never been able to go anywhere during school holidays...

But, he's only 2... we'll get there eventually...
Terri, forgive me and I apologize in advance if I come off as an uncaring jerk with what I'm about to say next...it's just something that hit me when I read this tiny paragraph and I can't hold my tongue (or hands, in this case :P):

Repeat after me: "I DO NOT FEEL BAD." This is from past experience of my own and from what I've personally seen during my internship days (every day for that matter). I saw plenty of owners come for a leadership session and the main culprit was that they felt bad for their dog (i.e. felt bad for crate training, leash training, obedience commands, etc aka: they treated their dogs as if they were kids, not dogs). These dogs ran their owners' lives and the dogs knew it. Now, don't misunderstand...I don't know how your household is run and I wouldn't dare presume that Sam runs your lives. ;)

My point is that the "feel bad" thing that we, humans, feel is a hindrance to dogs. Why? It's mainly because dogs live in the moment and they simply don't feel bad. On the opposite side of the spectrum, there's aggression...some dogs are confident and they are confident in using their mouth (biting) to get what they want; some to the point where they lose their bite inhibition and break skin every time and it simply escalates from there. (You know the end....) Does the dog feel bad that he/she bit their owner that they love so much when the dog wants the affection? Nope. The rationale behind this is dog psychology - dogs don't feel bad and by seeing us feel bad for them and sympathizing with their issues, it won't help them overcome them because dogs just aren't wired that way. Sympathy & feel bad generally = "my human is weak". In this case, a dog will do one of two things: 1. take on leadership and run the household or 2. fret about everything because they're not strong enough to take the leadership role and then there's chaos.

It's at this point where I start sympathizing with you - you don't have neighbors that can put up with a dog that sounds like he's being murdered every day for the psychological sake of your dog (and your family) in the long run. There's that very fine line...don't get in trouble with other humans in your life or turn your life upside down for your dog. I get it. I do.

I'm not advising for you to take drastic measures all at once...everything positive in situations like these takes baby steps, that hopefully, turn into progress at leaps and bounds. My first question would have to be: what motivates Sam? And by this, I am asking what does he goes nuts for? A certain toy, praise/affection from a certain human, food (probably not? lol)?

From what I've heard, it sounds like you're also having difficulty figuring out what really motives Sam to do something you want him to do. Maybe it's a "simple" miscommunication between you and Sam. Now, I shall stop my rambling here and see if I made any sense. 8-)

User avatar
Maayke
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Tamthusiastic (Newbie)
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:42 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by Maayke » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:30 am

TerriHolt wrote: He will play with his ball that drops kibble treats for 7 minutes then he will howl non stop till i come home. My trainer says that it seem's like the SA has gone from extreme (pooping, destroying, digging, howling when alone) to fairly mild crossed with boredom. He is still not interested in stuff left for him except that treat ball but it is great progress.
Have you tried leaving a kong toy filled with icecream made out of for example yoghurt, banana and dog treats? I might keep him occupied a little longer. I left our dog with it for almost 2 hours and it still wasn't empty when I got home.

User avatar
TerriHolt
Tamificent (Guru)
Tamificent (Guru)
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:56 am
Location: UK, East Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Separation anxiety

Post by TerriHolt » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:03 pm

Maayke wrote:
TerriHolt wrote: He will play with his ball that drops kibble treats for 7 minutes then he will howl non stop till i come home. My trainer says that it seem's like the SA has gone from extreme (pooping, destroying, digging, howling when alone) to fairly mild crossed with boredom. He is still not interested in stuff left for him except that treat ball but it is great progress.
Have you tried leaving a kong toy filled with icecream made out of for example yoghurt, banana and dog treats? I might keep him occupied a little longer. I left our dog with it for almost 2 hours and it still wasn't empty when I got home.
Tried kongs filled with all sorts... peanut butter is the worst to get out of carpets and bottom of kongs :lol:
arianwenarie wrote:Repeat after me: "I DO NOT FEEL BAD." This is from past experience of my own and from what I've personally seen during my internship days (every day for that matter). I saw plenty of owners come for a leadership session and the main culprit was that they felt bad for their dog (i.e. felt bad for crate training, leash training, obedience commands, etc aka: they treated their dogs as if they were kids, not dogs).
:lol: It's not an "i feel bad" as in something he'll pick up on, it's mostly wishing things could be different and worrying how much more my neighbors will put up with (he is loud). I've not been feeling so bad since he stopped hurting him self (i once found blood all over the windowsill, i still to this day have no idea where it came from). My partner has missed out on his kids birthday parties to doggy sit, school appointments (i bet school think he's not bothered about what happens) and other stuff.
arianwenarie wrote:From what I've heard, it sounds like you're also having difficulty figuring out what really motives Sam to do something you want him to do.
There is plenty that motivates him while i'm home (dried treats, meat treats, praise, playing with toys), just nothing that he's interested in while i'm out (unless i leave something out i don't want him to chew then he'll destroy it). He did eat piggy foots for a while which took half hour but he started saving them for when i came home again (maybe that was my fault for getting excited for thinking i'd found something to occupy him... i jinxed it! :lol: ).

I wish i had another dog to 'borrow' to see if that has any effect (the piggy foot occupied him for a while, maybe another dogs company will).
I also think it's run for this long because i always rush home so it's like he howls and i return (he's the only Saxon pup to be this bad to the best of my knowledge so it's something he learned, make sense?)... That has been the 'norm' since he was 8 weeks old... My old neighbors worked nights so i had to keep him quiet, my new neighbors doesn't like dogs (i want to live in the middle of no where! :lol: ).
Image

There’s a battle between two wolves inside us all.
One is Evil. It’s anger, jealousy, greed, resentment, inferiority, lies and ego.
The other is Good. It’s joy, peace, love, hope, humility, kindness and truth.

The wolf that wins? The one you feed!

~ Cherokee Proverb

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity... I'm not sure about the former.

~ Albert Einstein

Post Reply