DM test for the Tamaskan

AZDehlin · Post by **AZDehlin** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:06 am

This is great news, and valuable if he passes all other tests for breeding.

Eventide · Post by **Eventide** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:12 am

AZDehlin wrote:This is great news, and valuable if he passes all other tests for breeding.

I do intend to continue with all health testing required for studding, just in case he can be of use to further the breed.

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:37 am

That is great news

Misaya · Post by **Misaya** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:49 pm

Good news. Congratulations

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:30 pm

Fantastic, Dottie! And yes, I would think that "Best in Show Opposite Sex" will be an important contributor to the breed!

Eventide · Post by **Eventide** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:33 am

Thank you all for your congrats. Would like to think he could further the "non-wolf" Tamaskan breed, even though we know who is great (great grandpa?) is/was. I will keep him intact and have all the health tests necessary (I would do this anyway - breeding potential or not).

I'm just so convinced there's not a drop of wolf (much less recent) in him. He is so ready to play with a baby frog until I came up behind him and happen to ever so lightly brush his tail, and then he, literally, jumped 3 feet in the air.

He's just so comfortable around everyone and everything (except frogs). He is very protective of the really "little" guys (check out my avatar). Would even a little bit of "wolf" allow this? Most, I think, would have that little guy as a snack for it's pack - just going by what I've read about the wolf and witnessed with Max. All I see when I'm with my Max is one cool Tamaskan "d-o-g."

Would love to have the wolf marker test done on him, but not sure it's really that accurate at this time anyway -- maybe in a few years . . .

Rahne · Post by **Rahne** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:22 pm

'Update' from OFA on test results

Normal (N/N)
This dog is homozygous N/N for the mutation that is the most common cause of DM, with two normal copies of the gene. Among the hundreds of dogs studied so far at the University of Missouri, only two dogs with test results of N/N (Normal) have been confirmed to have DM. The N/N (Normal) dog can only transmit the normal counterpart of the common mutation to its offspring, and it is unlikely that this dog or its offspring will ever develop DM.

Carrier (A/N)
This dog is heterozygous A/N, with one mutated copy of the gene and one normal copy of the gene, and is classified as a carrier. Carriers are far less likely to develop DM, but we have confirmed DM in a few carrier dogs. They may be used carefully in breeding programs to keep their good qualities while reducing risk of DM in future generations.

At-Risk (A/A)
This dog is homozygous A/A, with two mutated copies of the gene, and is at risk for developing Degenerative Myelopathy (DM). Although almost all dogs in the research study with confirmed DM have had A/A DNA test results, recent evidence suggest that there are other causes of DM in some breeds. In addition, not all dogs testing as A/A have shown clinical signs of DM. DM is typically a late onset disease, and dogs testing as A/A that are clinically normal may still begin to show signs of the disease as they age. Some dogs testing A/A did not begin to show clinical signs of DM until they were 15 years of age. Research is ongoing to estimate what percentage of dogs testing as A/A will develop DM within their lifespan. At this point, the mutation can only be interpreted as being at risk of developing DM within the animal's life. For dogs showing clinical signs with a presumptive diagnosis of DM, affected (A/A) test results can be used as an additional tool to aid in the diagnosis of DM. Dogs testing At-Risk (A/A) can only pass the mutated gene on to their offspring.

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:18 am

Well this is interesting, thank you for sharing.

AZDehlin · Post by **AZDehlin** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:44 am

Interesting, I wonder how many they mean when they say a few dogs that are carriers develop the disease.

Post by **Sylvaen** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:59 pm

wow, this is really shocking... it must mean that there are also other genes involved in the development of DM, which haven't yet been mapped / identified (perhaps there are two types of genetically inherited DM, but they've only found the genes that are responsible for one type). It is rather worrying though, as it means dogs that have tested clear might still develop DM (and/or produce offspring that might develop DM) - and dogs that have tested as 'at risk' might be fine. To me, it sounds like the DM test still needs a lot more work before it can be considered completely accurate, it's a step in the right direction but clearly not a perfect detection tool. This is worrying news though...

EDIT: seems my suspicions were confirmed

As of July 15, 2008 the mutated gene responsible for DM has been found present in 43 breeds including German Shepherds, Boxers, Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, and both breeds of Welsh Corgis. The disease is chronic and progressive, and resulting in paralysis. However, a clear German Shepherd Dog was found to have Degenerative Myelopathy, upon necropsy, that was homozygous for the normal form of the SOD1 gene. DM may not be related to the SOD1 mutation in all breeds. German Shepherd Myelopathy is considered to be unique to the breed. German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy (aka GSDM) involves profound and complete sensory loss, which is not the case in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, in which sensory loss is not found. German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy (aka GSDM) is its own unique disease. While ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis) does not involve sensory loss, German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy involves complete sensory loss. Therefore, German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy is not the common form of DM which affects other breeds, which is the type of Myelopathy for which this test was developed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_deg ... myelopathy

It sounds like the OFA will need to develop a whole new test for GSDM...
http://www.mzjf.com/test.html

Petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/ofa-uni ... signations

What a MESS.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:35 pm

Well, sheesh. I think I would want to retest if they developed the GSD test.

I'm sorry--but I think there's far more GSD in the breed than we think. Once, when I asked Lynn, she said there was only ever one used and it was so far back that it didn't matter. Well if our litter is coming back mostly GSD, then obviously those genes are inherited through the Polarspeed dogs. Very frustrating.

[edit: add]: I think I may even rethink who I will be willing to keep for breeding stock in the future. Looks like clear only is the best way to go. But even then, who knows? I spent quite a lot of money to test all the girls in our litter for DM. I thought in doing so I was doing the potential future breeder a service. Very disappointing.

Post by **Sylvaen** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:59 pm

Hawthorne wrote:Well, sheesh. I think I would want to retest if they developed the GSD test.
I'm sorry--but I think there's far more GSD in the breed than we think. Once, when I asked Lynn, she said there was only ever one used and it was so far back that it didn't matter. Well if our litter is coming back mostly GSD, then obviously those genes are inherited through the Polarspeed dogs. Very frustrating.

[edit: add]: I think I may even rethink who I will be willing to keep for breeding stock in the future. Looks like clear only is the best way to go. But even then, who knows? I spent quite a lot of money to test all the girls in our litter for DM. I thought in doing so I was doing the potential future breeder a service. Very disappointing.

I hear ya... and I feel the same way.
I don't regret having my dogs tested for DM but I will also test for GSDM if/when such a test exists - it's just too bad it will have to be done separately / twice, perhaps one day both tests will be included in one... I just wonder if the OFA would be able to use the DNA samples we already submitted for the DM test (if they somehow stored the data, from which they can extract info for the GSDM gene markers) OR if we'll have to resubmit new DNA samples for the GSDM test. I'm guessing it'll be the latter... *sigh*

Oh well, better safe than sorry. Considering the CSV / Saarloos content in the breed, this is something that we should test for - a purebred GSD might only exist faaaaaar back in Tamaskan ancestry, but GSD genes will still be inherited from the much more recent CSV / Saarloos content.

AZDehlin · Post by **AZDehlin** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:07 am

This is a little upsetting...
Does GSDM show different physical symptoms, then another breed with DM? Can the two forms be distinguished from one another based on the symptoms?
When there is a test for GSDM I will get it done. Hope it would be a requirement if it is found that our dogs carry this form.

Ryphen · Post by **Ryphen** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:22 pm

AZDehlin wrote:Does GSDM show different physical symptoms, then another breed with DM? Can the two forms be distinguished from one another based on the symptoms?

Seems you tell them apart by presence or absence of sensory loss, which should make diagnosis easy.

German Shepherd Myelopathy is considered to be unique to the breed. German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy (aka GSDM) involves profound and complete sensory loss, which is not the case in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, in which sensory loss is not found. German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy (aka GSDM) is its own unique disease. While ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis) does not involve sensory loss, German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy involves complete sensory loss. Therefore, German Shepherd Dog Myelopathy is not the common form of DM which affects other breeds, which is the type of Myelopathy for which this test was developed.

AZDehlin · Post by **AZDehlin** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:44 pm

Also could it be possible we could have both forms of DM?

Post by **Nino** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:13 pm

AZDehlin wrote:Also could it be possible we could have both forms of DM?

Being that the Tamaskan is a "mixed breed" that is possible yes..

juice · Post by **juice** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:50 am

have got the results for dm for lexi and dylan. lexi is a carrier and dylan is normal so good and not so good news. at least we can still breed with lexi as long as dad is normal. will get alaska done some time this year.

Post by **TerriHolt** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:53 am

Yay for them both

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:25 pm

Congrats

Post by **Katlin** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:19 am

Sorry for bumping this, I've just ordered Wylie's DM test, I'll post when I get the results back

weylyn · Post by **weylyn** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:41 am

gona turn my thumps for you he is clear

Post by **Sylvaen** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:00 pm

good luck

balto13 · Post by **balto13** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:45 pm

good luck! I have a good feeling he is clear

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:39 pm

Good luck, Katlin & Wylie! Hope Darwin rubs off...

akaye531 · Post by **akaye531** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:19 am

Good luck!! Keeping my fingers crossed

Tiantai · Post by **Tiantai** » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:43 pm

Given the evidence that DM can be caused by a variety of factors, I wonder if specific breeds like Siberian Huskies can also have certain genes that cause DM later in life despite having a cleared result from the OFA or BVA. It's always fascinating how sometimes we THINK we have uncovered something new and then another mystery pops up following the next.

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:29 am

Even though Zelda is carrier by parentage, and Ulric is neutered, I just ordered a test for both of them. It will be good to know Ulric's results since he comes from Alba's lines, and none of her dogs (unfortunately) are not tested. As soon as we get the results, we will post right away.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:53 pm

Katlin wrote:Sorry for bumping this, I've just ordered Wylie's DM test, I'll post when I get the results back

Did the test at least arrive in the mail yet?

Post by **Katlin** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:46 pm

It did, finally, I just have to send it. Turns out I have to claim it, which means it's about $15 to send...sigh...lol. I'll be sending it away on saturday.

Tiantai · Post by **Tiantai** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:20 pm

Katlin wrote:It did, finally, I just have to send it. Turns out I have to claim it, which means it's about $15 to send...sigh...lol. I'll be sending it away on saturday.

I look forward to hearing about the results or rather seeing it.

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:16 am

Still awaiting for certificates to arrive but, as expected, Zelda is a Carrier of DM.

Ulric is also a Carrier of DM.
With this information, we now know that at least one of Alba's Tamaskans are Carrier or even possibly Affected.

Post by **Sylvaen** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:47 am

HiTenshi16 wrote:Ulric is also a Carrier of DM.
With this information, we now know that at least one of Alba's Tamaskans are Carrier or even possibly Affected.

Good to know... just goes to show that until the test is done, there is no way to know for sure...
Have you told Liz yet? I know she plans to test her dogs soon (hopefully) but at least she could start with Ulric's parents.
I think Catori (former Aatu breeder) has an Alba male, out of Bear, who is also a Carrier.

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:51 am

Sylvaen wrote:
HiTenshi16 wrote:Ulric is also a Carrier of DM.
With this information, we now know that at least one of Alba's Tamaskans are Carrier or even possibly Affected.
Good to know... just goes to show that until the test is done, there is no way to know for sure...
Have you told Liz yet? I know she plans to test her dogs soon (hopefully) but at least she could start with Ulric's parents.
I think Catori (former Aatu breeder) has an Alba male, out of Bear, who is also a Carrier.

I have sent Liz a message to let her know. I remember about Catori's pups, didn't both her female and male turn out to be carriers? With knowing this information, Ta-Kari's Darki may be a carrier himself, which leads me to wonder if Ulric's sire Odin is carrier or if Lycan and Xena are carriers. Now my mind keeps going further into the pedigree trying to figure out who is possibly what.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:33 pm

Blaze was normal--and Blaze and Ulric share one parent, right?
Also, Ruby at J&J was tested. Wasn't she clear?
Lastly, doesn't Conchur have an Alba dog?

Misaya · Post by **Misaya** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:20 pm

Yes, Conchur (Reggie) has Inna from Alba.

I have Ayasca, littermate to Lycan and Xena, and he tested clear. I also have their sister (a year younger) who isnt tested but I may do so now. She is showing signs of having arthritis though.

It is not good news that Ulric is a carrier as the only other dog from Alba who tested as a carrier (I think) was fathered by Bear (Liz's outcross). I was hopeful that her other foundation dogs would test clear, but this may not be the case now.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:45 pm

Has Bear (male or female?) been bred to either of Ulric's parents?

sky · Post by **sky** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:38 am

OFA shows Reggie's dog from Alba as clear.

arianwenarie · Post by **arianwenarie** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:46 am

Of the records available on OFA, here's the results of the Alba dogs:

Alba Criterion: CLEAR - I think he is Dylan at Starlight Tamaskan?
Alba Daer @ Tarheel (Blaze): CLEAR
Alba Isen @ Conchur (Inna): CLEAR
Alba Ootek @ Carron River (Ayasca): CLEAR
Alba O'Shean (Shogun): CLEAR
Alba Rhudaur (Sampo): CLEAR
Alba Zuul @ Blufawn (Zuul): CLEAR
Alba Sverical @ J&J (Ruby): CLEAR
Alba Scotia @ Catori: CARRIER

Alba Rynan (Ulric)'s records aren't on OFA yet, but I think Jo mentioned he's Carrier?

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:56 am

Been chatting with Rahne a bit, thinking we are seeing a pattern. Reggie informed me that Alba Scotia's dam is Miya, whom is Ulric's grandmother. Miya's dam is Paloose, and Summer's dam is also Paloose.

arianwenarie · Post by **arianwenarie** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:58 am

HiTenshi16 wrote:Been chatting with Rahne a bit, thinking we are seeing a pattern. Reggie informed me that Alba Scotia's dam is Miya, whom is Ulric's grandmother. Miya's dam is Paloose, and Summer's dam is also Paloose.

Hrm...but if memory serves me right, then all the dogs with the exception of Alba Criteron has Miya in the pedigree. That's mainly because Xena (Alba Lycaon) and Lycan (Alba Lycan) are both out of Miya x Magnus.

Zuul and Ayasca are also out of Miya x Magnus.

HiTenshi16 · Post by **HiTenshi16** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:27 am

It is possible that Miya is a carrier and Magnus is clear, which would produce clear and carrier pups, like Xena being clear (since most of her pups seem clear), and Lycan being carrier since Ulric came out as carrier. Of course carrier x carrier will produce affected, carriers, and clears like Summer's first litter.
Paloose is also behind Tundra, who must of been a carrier since at least one of the OBX pups turned out to be carrier, and Blaze was clear.
Until Liz has her dogs tested though, this can only be speculation, but at least now we have more of an idea where the DM in the breed stems from.

Hawthorne · Post by **Hawthorne** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:20 pm

Good lord, Paloose was full of issues.

sky · Post by **sky** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:15 am

She and Kyte both were full of issues sadly.

Post by **Katlin** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:54 pm

Got Wylie's DM test sent back to me because the sticker fell off in transit (the one that had the address). Sent it back so hopefully I'll be getting results within the next few weeks. Also sent in Wylie's DNA sample. I'll post results when they come in

TParham86 · Post by **TParham86** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:58 am

So I decided to test Mona Lisa for DM and her results arrived in the mail today.

Her results came back as a Carrier (A/N) So not the best news but not the worse either

Post by **Katlin** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:59 am

Wylie's results are back, carrier as well. Leilah was a carrier and Darwin was clear so it was 50/50.

DM_results.png

TParham86 · Post by **TParham86** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:02 pm

Yup same for me

her mom Nevada was a carrier and her dad Skye was clear so 50/50

International Tamaskan Forum

This is an International Forum for enthusiasts, owners, breeders, and all who are interested in Tamaskan Dogs.